Awesome Christian Left site!

[ButterflyBlood]

http://www.christianalliance.org

This site sums up the liberal Christian views perfectly and helps rebuke fundies quite well.

[applegrove]

1. Looks great. Perhaps they have the 3/4 of the bible that deal with poverty

in their bibles. Seems the other guys tore it all out.

[bliss_eternal]

2. I thought all those pages were just stuck together...

:shrug:

[unless]

3. Two of those points are controversial to all but the most liberal...

denominations/ liberal churches in mainstream denominations.

If they dropped the gay rights stuff they would be pretty darn attractive to most mainstream Christians.

The abortion page is really well thought out but you just can't win when you talk about it.

Really - these two topics need to be dropped from the platform. For the sake of these two issues! Before a bunch of anti-gay laws pass and before Roe v. Wade is overturned.

[applegrove]

5. No - if they dropped the gay rights stuff they would be pretty attractive

to old time christian congregations in Africa & the USA.

Most christians only get their hate imported from the American churches.

[unless]

9. I'm confused...

This site looks like it is geared toward Americans, so I don't understand your point.

Call me a yellowdawg.

[applegrove]

12. If they dropped the "pro-gay" stuff they would be attractive to the

churches in the USA. The USA is pretty unique in how they have held on to stirring that particular hatred. And they try & export it to places like Canada.

I don't know what I was saying either? Come to think of it!

[unless]

13. Oh. I think we agree with each other. I think. n/t

[texpatriot2004]

4. This is the most powerful thing I think I have ever seen. It's long

overdue and I am grateful to have it now. Thank you so much.

[applegrove]

6. The anti-gay stuff comes from the neocons. When they were studying

all of us little ants on the planet and decided the only good person was a Calvinist protestant worker & consumer - they left gays out.

Gays became a wedge issue for them to connect with the more traditional branches of the churches. Gay rights were nowhere in sight when this stuff was all hammered out. The neocons made their bond with the Christian churches and that wedge was a big part of getting voters they could control.

Turns out the Gays are the most high income consumers, economically helpful group of anyone the planet has ever seen. The cities they live in benefit and expand do to the ideas generated by this army of people. The cities of the world with high gay/lesbian communities are the greatest cities in the world.

Still the dirty deal was done so the neos would have more wedges for their flock. So no turning back. And that is why we are supposed to hate gays.:grr:

[unless]

10. I'm sorry, are you saying that anti-gay sentiment is "new"?

I think there have been times and places throughout Western Civilization where it has been more acceptable, but there has sure been a lot of anti-gay sentiment throughout the centuries.

Can you please give me some specific historical framework around your examples? Because I don't remember anything about gay rights entering church discussions until the 60's in liberal churches and the 2000's in mainstream ones - it was always understood before then that it was against teaching (and I have a lot of old books I could check for you).

That's the way I see the history - but regarding the issue - I don't have the right to pick up any rocks, and I can't see the speck in their eye through the plank in my own, though.

[applegrove]

11. Oh christian church has always been against gay people, with the exception

of elite popes and priests. I'm saying that they anti-gay bashers existed in all walks of life. But it was neocons that in their fuzzy way somehow decided that the only good person was a financially successful person & a consumer. And they anointed protestants. They then used the "gay" wedge to join with the churches..who were not so much into racism at the time...they had to do some work on the slavery thing and their part in it..and many churches were right there with workers at the turn of the century & with the civil rights movement after the WWII. So in terms of "hate you can bond over" gay was a great opportunity for the neocons to bond with churches (who hadn't dealt with the issue yet). As it was something not yet discussed publicly in terms of rights(the most useful hate always is). And "hilarious" (not really) that neocon's own theory of the Calvinist worker/consumer doesn't even stand up to their own..let alone the world's... thinking. If the assumptions of their own theories do not stand up - why would we let Rummy be making new assumptions about war?

But not funny on so many other levels. The neocons never are funny. They are nuts. And they are always 100% wrong - 100% of the time.

Just another example of there complete & utter wrongness.

[tuvor]

7. Thank you! Here's another.

Not to hijack your thread, but you may find this site to be an eye-opener:

www.tentmaker.org

[applegrove]

8. I'm getting sleepy. I thought it said: "Jesus Christ, the savior of Oil

Men, if you believe"

Must go to bed.