Angels are the personification of the astrological aspect.

[moobu2]

This is wikipedia's quick definition of what an Angel is, though most people already know what one is right? anyway...

"Angels are messengers of God in the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament and the Quran. The term "angel" has also been expanded to various notions of "spiritual beings" found in many other religious traditions. Other roles of angels include protecting and guiding human beings, and carrying out God's tasks."
LINK

This is a quick definition of what the astrological aspect is. It's a very complicated belief system dating back thousands of years before Christianity was ever invented.

In astrology, an aspect is an angle the planets make to each other in the horoscope, and also to the ascendant, midheaven, descendant and nadir. The aspects are measured by the angular distance along the ecliptic in degrees and minutes of celestial longitude between two points, as viewed from the earth. They indicate focal points in the horoscope where the energies involved are given extra emphasis. The astrological aspects are said to influence affairs on Earth according to millennia of astrological tradition.

LINK

I think at some point 'angel' replaced the 'angle' in the astrological aspect. The 'angle' that planets have to the zodiac told ancient astronomers certain things, or rather they revealed certain things God wanted them to know - in effect these angles were 'messengers from God'.

Just like Jesus was the Sun personified, The Virgin Mary was Virgo personified, John the baptist was Aquarius personified, Angels were the Astrological aspect personified.

In case you didn't know.

[EmilyKent]

1. That only works in English.

[moobu2]

4. From Wikipedia,

the word Angel derives from the Latin angelus which in turn is the romanization of the ancient Greek ἄγγελος (angelos), "messenger".


Both the 'angles' of the planets in relation to the zodiak and 'angels' are "messengers".

[EmilyKent]

7. Which again, only works in English.

Not in Hebrew, or Aramaic or Greek.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. I think angles are observable properties of the real world

while angels are woo-woo.

But carry on.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Angel comes from the latin word angelus...

which comes form greek angelos meaning messanger.

Angle comes form the latin word angulus meaning corner.

Further, Angels are the Hebrew mal'akh Elohim, messangers of god.

I don't think there is a realtionship between these words.

[moobu2]

8. Both are messengers from the heavens which is my point.

An astrological aspect is an <angle> the planets make to each other in the horoscope. The astrological aspects are said to influence affairs on Earth according to millennia of astrological tradition. Angels are messengers from heaven. Both are messengers from heaven and one is the personification of the other..


I just think that angels are the personification of the aspect. Could I be wrong? no, I'm never wrong.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. The words have no relationship etomologically.

So they dont relate.

Of course, I don't accept the hypothesis that the stars and planets fortell our destiny.

I see no evicence of the existance of a desitiny.

I am an agnostic who has seen no evidence of the existence of angels.

But it is the etomological argument that shows me angel and angle are unrelated.

[moobu2]

11. Taken at face value, I don't think the 2 words have any documented historical relationship.

One word 'angle' has to do with geometry, the other 'angel' has to do with flying, sometimes invisible, mythological creatures that are thought to be able to influence our lives. I'm a very strong atheist so I have no belief whatsoever in either astrology or Christianity. Both are superstitions that are large part of human cultural history, astrology being very much older and which Christianity evolved from. Anyway, I think what happened most likely was the 2 words were confused or split off and diverged at some point in the very distant past, but I have no Etymological evidence. The Etymological evidence is not important to me in this case and anyway "evidence" is scarce concerning much of the study of ancient word relationships.

From Wikipedia

Even though etymological research originally grew from the philological tradition, currently much etymological research is done on language families where little or no early documentation is available

<snip>

Etymological theory recognizes that words originate through a limited number of basic mechanisms, the most important of which are borrowing (i.e., the adoption of "loanwords" from other languages); word formation such as derivation and compounding; and onomatopoeia and sound symbolism, (i.e., the creation of imitative words such as "click").
While the origin of newly emerged words is often more or less transparent, it tends to become obscured through time due to sound change or semantic change. Due to sound change, it is not readily obvious that the English word set is related to the word sit (the former is originally a causative formation of the latter). It is even less obvious that bless is related to blood (the former was originally a derivative with the meaning "to mark with blood"). Semantic change may also occur. For example, the English word bead originally meant "prayer". It acquired its modern meaning through the practice of counting the recitation of prayers by using beads.

Believe whatever you want, I still think angels were a personification of the astrological aspect (angle). Maybe the words angel and angle being so similar is just a strange coincidence. could be. Maybe the belief that the angles the planets had in relation to the zodiac sign were messages from the heavens and angels being messengers from heaven was just a strange coincidence. Could be I guess. Maybe the fact that there were 7 ancient "wandering" planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, the Moon, and the Sun) and the 'angle' these planets had in relation to the zodiac sign was a message and the belief there were 7 Archangels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Remiel and Saraqael) was just a strange coincidence. Could be, but I don't think so.

[Ozymanithrax]

14. Angel does not mean flying, sometimes invisible, mythological creatures...

The sources of the word are messanger, which is a close translation of the Hebrew word. If we are talking about belief, then I assume the flying Sphagettin monster also applies.

The underpinnings of Western Astrology go back to Babylon, where they did not use any of the words bandied about here. We can be thankful that Hebrew scripture did not use the word for plumbing to describe the messangers of god, or people would have guardian plumbers.

We will agree to disagree.

[stopbush]

5. The only salient point to be made about the various angles used in horoscopes

is that modern astrologers haven't bothered to adjust their "angles" base on the present day position of the starts & planets, which are quite different from where they were back in the day.

Here's the dates of the signs of the zodiac based on the ancient positions:

Capricorn - December 23 - January 20
Aquarius - January 21 - February 19
Pisces - February 20- March 20
Aries - March 21 - April 20
Taurus - April 21 - May 21
Gemini - May 22 - June 21
Cancer - June 22 - July 22
Leo - July 23 -August 21
Virgo - August 22 - September 23
Libra - September 24 - October 23
Scorpio - October 24 - November 22
Sagittarius - November 23 - December 22


And here's where those signs fall in the present day:

Capricorn - Jan 20 to Feb 16
Aquarius - Feb 16 to Mar 11
Pisces - Mar 11 to Apr 18
Aries - Apr 18 to May 13
Taurus - May 13 to Jun 21
Gemini - Jun 21 to Jul 20
Cancer - Jul 20 to Aug 10
Leo - Aug 10 to Sep 16
Virgo - Sep 16 to Oct 30
Libra - Oct 30 to Nov 23
Scorpius - Nov 23 to Nov 29
Ophiuchus - Nov 29 to Dec 17
Sagittarius - Dec 17 to Jan 20

"The first day of spring in the Northern Hemisphere was once marked by the zero point of the Zodiac. Astronomers call this the vernal equinox and it occurs as the ecliptic and celestial equator intersect.

"Around 600 BCE, the zero point was in Aries and was called the "first point of Aries." The constellation Aries encompassed the first 30 degrees of the ecliptic; from 30 to 60 degrees was Taurus; from 60 to 90 degrees was Gemini; and so on for all twelve constellations of the Zodiac.

"Unbeknownst to the ancient astrologers, the Earth continually wobbles around its axis in a 25,800-year cycle. This wobble—called precession—is caused by the gravitational attraction of the Moon on Earth's equatorial bulge.

"Over the past two-and-a-half millennia, this wobble has caused the intersection point between the celestial equator and the ecliptic to move west along the ecliptic by 36 degrees, or almost exactly one-tenth of the way around. This means that the signs have slipped one-tenth—or almost one whole month—of the way around the sky to the west, relative to the stars beyond.

"For instance, those born between March 21 and April 19 consider themselves to be Aries. Today, the Sun is no longer within the constellation of Aries during much of that period. From March 11 to April 18, the Sun is actually in the constellation of Pisces!"

Here: http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/your-astronomical-sign.html


How many people have spent there lives believing "I am SUCH a Virgo (etc,)!", when they were actually a Leo (etc)?

[cleanhippie]

10. Interesting. I always thought I was a Leo!

Does this mean I don't really know myself at all?

[tanyev]

6. Hi, moobu2

Are you aware of this forum? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=245


:hi:

[salvorhardin]

12. The two words come from two very different roots, and one was translated from Hebrew to Greek first

The Online Etymology Dictionary is a very useful resource for this kind of thing.

angel
14c. fusion of O.E. engel (with hard -g-) and O.Fr. angele, both from L. angelus, from Gk. angelos "messenger," possibly related to angaros "mounted courier," both from an unknown Oriental source, perhaps related to Skt. ajira- "swift." Used in Scriptural translations for Heb. mal'akh (yehowah) "messenger (of Jehovah)," from base l-'-k "to send." An O.E. word for it was aerendgast, lit. "errand-spirit." The medieval gold coin (a new issue of the noble, first struck 1465 by Edward VI) was so called for the image of archangel Michael slaying the dragon, which was stamped on it. It was the coin given to patients who had been "touched" for the King's Evil. Angel food cake is from 1881; angel dust "phencyclidine" is from 1968.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=angel

angle (n.)
"intersecting lines," late 14c., from L. angulum (nom. angulus) "corner," a dim. form from PIE base *ang-/*ank- "to bend" (cf. Gk. ankylos "bent, crooked," L. ang(u)ere "to compress in a bend, fold, strangle," O.C.S. aglu "corner," Lith. anka "loop," Skt. ankah "hook, bent," O.E. ancleo "ankle," O.H.G. ango "hook").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=angel

[moobu2]

13. When I thought up the theory,

the first thing I did was search the words origins for clues. I didn't get very far obviously, however, knowing Etymology is a study of word history with quite a few unknowns, especially the further back in history we go, I thought it was still possible - I still do. Christianity evolved from earlier astrological beliefs that predate the written word and all the characters and stories and such are astronomical allegory. I knew Some of the main characters in the Bible were personifications of the sun and various zodiac signs and equinoxes and solstices and so forth etc.. but I hadn't figured out who the angel folk represented until I realized they were the personification of the angles the planets have to the signs (the aspect).


It might be that the 2 words have no common history, I mean it might just be some wild coincidence, or, the history might be lost, I'm not sure.

[dimbear]

15. My favorite theory.......

Does look like angels go back to Egypt, what with their theriomorphic deities and all, and Egypt sees high flying birds migrating from Europe to southern parts of Africa. Flying so high they are mere white spots in the sky.

Angels. Swans. White swans.