How many people hold Reagan's view of atheism?

[Goblinmonger]

I teach high school and in my Communication course, they have to do a presentation in which they analyze one of the Top 100 speech from the American Rhetoric site. Anyway, one of the students did Reagan's http://www.hbci.com/~tgort/empire.htm">"Evil Empire" speech and played this section:

A number of years ago, I heard a young father, a very prominent young man in the entertainment world, addressing a tremendous gathering in California. It was during the time of the cold war, and communism and our own way of life were very much on people's minds. And he was speaking to that subject. And suddenly, though, I heard him saying, "I love my little girls more than anything -" And I said to myself, "Oh, no, don't. You can't - don't say that." But I had underestimated him. He went on: "I would rather see my little girls die now, still believing in God, than have them grow up under communism and one day die no longer believing in God."

I realize this was a "different time" and all, but I think many people still hold this ridiculous view (several of them are regulars here in R/T).

So, agree or disagree, believers? Would you rather your kids die than become atheists?

[Vincardog]

1. Would it be better to be dead or BRAIN dead ?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I'd prefer my children to be nontheistic, but barring that prospect,

I'd rather have them happy and alive no matter what their choice of belief. I'd would never wish my children dead before my time.

[Tippy]

3. I lost a child....I would not have cared if he had remained with us....

[Goblinmonger]

5. I'm very sorry. I can only imagine. n/t

[old mark]

4. That time is not far gone, if indeed it is gone at all. I read a few such things

pretty regularly by "religious" people who think atheists are satanists, or some such thing.
FWIW, I attended religious schools through high school, and they lost me all on their own, without "outside" help from athiests.

mark

[Ken Burch]

6. The other thing is, why would Reagan object to the idea

that this guy would "love (his)little girls more than anything".

Isn't that what a father is SUPPOSED to do?

(Don't get me wrong-I still think the second part of what the guy said was insane.)

[thereismore]

7. As a former Christian, this thought is revolting to me. I am sure people can live

great life under communism too. They love, they play, they learn, they create. Just think of all the great art that originates from adversity. I sense that Raygun thought that living in communism equals being an atheist and therefore going to hell. The way I see it, those who believe in hell are living in it right now. Religion is not worth wasting your life over.

[Goblinmonger]

8. Apparently some people agree with Reagan

since the recommendation numbers are going down.

[struggle4progress]

9. During the Reagan era, I suddenly had a certain insight into the political dynamics

of Reagan's mind-numbingly stupid comments

Reagan's job as President, as he conceived it, was to perform as the Master of Ceremonies in a great convention of Illusionists: he practiced the art of distraction, so that the tricks could be performed flawlessly on stage without revealing actual mechanisms. When Reagan infuriated us with his idiotic remarks, and when we shouted angrily back, much of the audience merely saw a charming fellow on a stage, surrounded by apparent wonders, heckled by some frothing crazies in the peanut gallery

Comments, of the sort you cite, could not be defeated by rational analysis: their purpose was simply to distract from other matters, and if we spent time arguing with them then we had allowed ourselves to be distracted

[HuckleB]

10. Having spent the past week grieving for the death of the two-year-old of a wife's friend...

... who died suddenly in a rather bizarre accident, I can't imagine thinking that it would be better if the child died rather than becoming an atheist. I'm a fairly cold-hearted butthead, but I'm a bit emotional this week, in general, and toward my four-year-old in particular.

I absolutely cannot imagine thinking that way.

[rug]

11. I don't think Reagan gave a shit about atheism. It was a handy cudgel for his anticommunist agenda.

[LARED]

19. Bingo!!!. That's the correct answer, nt

[Jim__]

12. The more difficult question is: Would you rather your child die than live under, say, the system ...

Orwell described in "1984"?

Reagan over-simplified everything. But, he is discussing defending ourselves from communism - although, of course, not presenting a realistic picture of any threat from the Soviet Union. But, the question is real. Given a world with nuclear weapons, how far would you go in defending against a potential totalitarian dictator? Would you risk nuclear war to prevent such a dictator from gaining power over you, your family, your country? As long as nuclear arsenals exist, we have to live with that question.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

13. I am fairly sure Jesus would have agreed with him; I'm sure most Western Christians nowadays don't.

Essentially, I think that that's true if, and only if, belief in the Christian God is necessary for "salvation". Nowadays most Western Christians and nearly all liberal Christians don't seem to believe that, but I think that there can be little doubt that Jesus and virtually all Christians up until a few hundred years ago did.

[darkstar3]

14. "Most Western Christians" don't think "belief in the Christian God is necessary for 'salvation'"???

Did you MEAN to say that?

I don't know what life is like over there in England, but remember that just because you kicked the fucking Puritans off the island doesn't mean they disappeared.

In America, Christianity is ALL wrapped up in the idea of salvation and how belief in Jesus and Christianity is necessary for that salvation. I'd say American Christians make up a rather large portion of Western Christians, and therefore your claim seems rather incredible to me.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. I would *guess* (although it's only a guess) that "most" is accurate.

When you add together all the Christians who don't believe in hell, and the ones who don't believe all the non-Christians are going there, and the ones who creatively misinterpret "but through me", I guess that the fraction of Western Christians who believe that all non-Christians are damned is fewer than 50%.

[darkstar3]

16. Our experiences differ greatly. My *guess* would be different from yours.

Plus, with hell being a doctrine of the Catholic Church, which claims more than 50% of the world's Christians, the probability is good that >%50 of Christians DO believe in hell. They may, like some DUers, believe that hell is less a lake of fire and more an ethereal "lack of God", but they still believe in a thing they call "hell" that awaits non-believers.

[AlecBGreen]

21. I agree w Darkstar

I dont think this statement is accurate

"Nowadays most Western Christians and nearly all liberal Christians don't seem to believe that {belief in the Christian God is necessary for "salvation.}"

There are some who believe as you say but they are not the majority.

[Nihil]

17. No. A thousand times "No".

> So, agree or disagree, believers?
> Would you rather your kids die than become atheists?

That strikes me as the most repugnant attitude a fanatic could have:
to rather that their own children died than choose a different belief
system to their father.

I am not religious (as in an adherent to or practiser of a particular religion)
but I am a theist and hence a "believer".

My eldest is an atheist and we get along just fine thank you.

The thought that what is basically a difference of opinion could lead to
a desire that the child "die still believing in God" rather than grow up
to make their own choice is truly disgusting.

x(

(FWIW, I really don't think that any of the R/T regulars are anywhere near
that level of fanaticism either but YMMV.)

[Crunchy Frog]

18. Even Reagan didn't hold Reagan's view of atheism.

His son is an atheist and informed him of such when he was a young child and Ronnie was apparently quite accepting of the whole thing. I'm thinking that the speech was a piece of political theater and not reflective of his real beliefs. There's no evidence he ever wished his son dead because of either his atheism or his liberal political views. And of course we all know that the public words of Republicans are almost always lies, why should these be any different.

Anyway, there's also no evidence that growing up under communism makes you more likely to be an atheist. Poland is a good example of that.

[Dorian Gray]

20. Of course

I wouldn't rather my daughter die than be an atheist.

[backscatter712]

22. The ironic thing is that his cool son, Ron Reagan is an atheist.

Makes me wonder what Ronald was smoking when he said the quote in the OP.

[Iggo]

23. Better Dead Than Red.

That's older than Reagan.