Pope Says Condom Use By Male Prostitutes Can Be Justified

[DeSwiss]

Pope says in new book that use of condoms can be justified in case of male prostitutes

Chicago Tribune
FRANCES D'EMILIO, NICOLE WINFIELD Associated Press
12:51 p.m. CST, November 20, 2010



VATICAN CITY (AP)— Pope Benedict XVI says in a new book that condoms can be justified for male prostitutes seeking to stop the spread of HIV, a stunning comment for a church criticized for its opposition to condoms and for a pontiff who has blamed them for making the AIDS crisis worse.

The pope made the comments in a book-length interview with a German journalist, "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times," which is being released Tuesday. The Vatican newspaper ran excerpts on Saturday.

Church teaching has long opposed condoms because they are a form of artificial contraception, although it has never released an explicit policy about condoms and HIV. The Vatican has been harshly criticized for its opposition.

Benedict said that condoms are not a moral solution. But he said in some cases, such as for male prostitutes, they could be justified "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-eu-pope-condoms,0,3944129.story">MORE

- I'm relatively certain that the http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/06/earlyshow/saturday/main6272743.shtml">scandal this past spring exposing the Vatican's use of male prostitutes for, er... ah... luggage handling purposes, had little to nothing to do with the Pope's new sexual position.

In a manner of speaking......
==============================================================================
DeSwiss






"Prayer is just a way of telling god that his divine plan for
you is flawed -- and shockingly stingy" ~ Betty Bowers

[Skinner]

1. A very surprising exception, given that the catholic church still opposes homosexuality.

Unless he is referring to heterosexual male prostitutes, in which case it would also be surprising, given the fact that the catholic church opposes birth control.

Whatever the motivation, I think this is a good thing. Catholics who want to change church policy on contraception and/or condoms should be able to use this to help their cause. It is such a surprising exception to church teaching that observant Catholics are likely to ask, if male prostitutes can use condoms, why can't I?

[DeSwiss]

3. Very surprising, indeed.

Makes him sound like a "moral relativist."

- Wouldn't you say?

[rug]

11. Here's the passage in question:

{The book is in interview format.)

"Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?

"She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality."

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=221:pope-benedict-xvi-discusses-condoms-and-the-spread-of-hiv&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70

And here's the spin:

"The Holy Father is simply observing that for some homosexual prostitutes the use of a condom may indicate an awakening of a moral sense; an awakening that sexual pleasure is not the highest value, but that we must take care that we harm no one with our choices. He is not speaking to the morality of the use of a condom, but to something that may be true about the psychological state of those who use them."

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220:pope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70

Nevertheless, this is a significant crack in the to-date uniform condemnation of condoms and contraceptives and raises a host of questions about current Catholic moral theology. E.g., why not use a diaphragm while committing adultery?

Expect a lot of backtracking, qualifiers and explanations, a la, he was expressing a private opinion in an interview, it was not a doctrinal formulation, etc.

In this way, the Vatican and GDP are alike.

[beam me up scottie]

2. Did he instruct priests in third world countries to stop lying about the effectiveness of condoms?

Until he does, imo, he is still complicit in the deaths of millions.

[DeSwiss]

4. No. And same here. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

7. After watching heartbreaking testimony from Annie Lennox yesterday,

I couldn't get past the fact that while providing adequate medical care to the one-in-three South African mothers who have AIDS and pass it on to their children is a worthy cause, PREVENTING THEM FROM GETTING THE DISEASE IN THE FIRST PLACE would be ever-so-much better.

Not to mention cheaper.

And when it comes to questions of morality, we should always ask ourselves: "What wouldn't Mother Teresa do?"



Don't get me started.




How are you, my friend? :hug:

[DeSwiss]

8. I'm better....

...on most days anyhow. Usually on the days when I stay off the Internets and/or when I'm successful in keeping myself reading what passes for the so-called news. But don't get me started either.

- I'm ready for The Paradigm Shift......

[JohnnyLib2]

5. Mind boggling.

Really.

[DeSwiss]

9. Religion is like that.

[mzteris]

6. so he's okay with prostitution AND

homosexuality.

And preventing the spread of Aids from man to man, but women? pfffftt.... they can catch aids, they can get pregnant and pregnant and pregnant. Those female prostitutes and wives and girlfriends deserve whatever they "catch",eh?

[DeSwiss]

10. Which only serves to.....

...underscore just how disconnected this lot is from real people and real life. These old farts live in a fantasyland of their own making.

- Which would be fine with me, if they were the only one's being affected by their psychopathy.....

[Skinner]

12. And look what just arrived in my inbox!

From Catholics for Choice:

"Pope’s Statement on Condoms Is a Victory for Common Sense and Reason"

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/PopesStatementonCondoms.asp

[DeSwiss]

13. Apparently not everyone got the memo......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/21/vatican-pope-condoms-aids_n_786526.html">Vatican Walks Back Pope's Condom Approval: Nothing's Changed

VATICAN CITY — Vatican officials insist it's nothing "revolutionary," but to many other people Pope Benedict XVI's recent comments regarding condom use mark an important moment in the battle against AIDS and an effort by the pontiff to burnish his image and legacy.

- I think we can take this as a sign that Opus Dei isn't on-board yet.......

[pokerfan]

14. but not for contraception purposes

It's quite lawful for a Catholic woman to avoid pregnancy by a resort to mathematics, though she is still forbidden to resort to physics or chemistry.
-H. L. Mencken

[DeSwiss]

15. Nope, not for contraceptive purposes.

Because that would be murder, you see? The Pope is saying that it's okay to use a condom so that certain men don't give other certain men an STD. Apparently.


- Male domination, control and oversight over a women's sexuality is still in full-force and effect. Nothing has changed......

[glarius]

16. As a Catholic, this makes no sense to me...It does not compute.

The point I have not heard anyone on TV or anywhere else make is....Why would the pope condone condoms for male prostitutes? According to Catholic teaching, prostitution itself is a mortal sin, so how does this make any sense whatsoever???

[DeSwiss]

17. First....

...it should be clearly understood that the Pope was not declaring a new Church doctrine:

The pope chose to make his statement not in an official document but in an interview with a German journalist, Peter Seewald, that is coming out this week in the book "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times." L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, published excerpts Saturday. The pope says in his own writings that he takes personal responsibility for the remarks, meaning they are not official church teaching. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/21/vatican-pope-condoms-aids_n_786526.html">link)

And secondly, when asked if he "meant that The Church wasn't opposed in principle to condoms," the Pope said:

The church of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but in this or that case, there can be nonetheless in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, "a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality," according to an English translation of the book obtained by The Associated Press. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/21/vatican-pope-condoms-aids_n_786526.html">link)

So you can see quite clearly where he's going with this, right? He's saying that it's just a "first step" in a movement toward a different way. Okay? A more human way "of living sexuality." As opposed to the other kind of non-living sexuality that's less human. See?

- Suffice it to say that it's the kind of answer one would expect to come from a male, 83 year-old virgin, who despite never having had any is still infallible about everything having to do with sex. I hope this clears things right on up for ya!