Is this evangelism?

[rug]

Atheist Group’s Billboard Targets ‘Closet’ Non-Believers

NORTH BERGEN, N.J. (1010 WINS) – An atheist group that has paid for a large billboard outside the Lincoln Tunnel reading “You KNOW it’s a Myth” says it is targeting “closet” atheists as part of its Christmas season campaign.

The large billboard featuring a silhouette of a traditional manger scene is located on the New Jersey side of the tunnel and sponsored by a group called American Atheists.

David Silverman, the president of the organization, spoke to 1010 WINS Saturday and said the purpose of the billboard was to “attract atheists who are currently in the closet.”

Silverman described the target audience as “people who are secretive not only to their friends and family, but maybe even to themselves about .”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/27/atheist-groups-billboard-targets-closet-non-believers/

If not, how not?

[WingDinger]

1. No, a support group. possible peers. Ever heard of lost boys?

[rug]

2. Unless you're referring to the Corey Feldman vampire movie or Peter Pan, no.

[darkstar3]

3. The answer lies in your quote.

"To attract atheists who are currently in the closet."

The key word there is "currently". Evangelism seeks to convert, but no conversion is attempted here.

[Goblinmonger]

4. Atheists often feel very alone

and as if they can't come out of the closet. This ad campaign is aimed at those people to let them know they are not alone and to make it perhaps a tad easier to come out.

If you need to see that as evangelism, then whatever gets you through the day, I guess.

[rug]

6. "let them know they are not alone"

Sounds like "good news" to me.

[darkstar3]

8. A poor allusion.

[Goblinmonger]

14. Nice try.

No cigar.

[enlightenment]

5. Technically, no.

The word comes from the Greek and has a specific meaning - i.e., spreading the 'good word' of Jesus - so technically, it can only refer to Christianity.

If you want to draw a parallel between a billboard suggesting that people know something is a myth and one that tells them something is the truth (like those signs in front of churches and such) you're making a bit of stretch.

Evangelists TELL people what to believe. This sign REMINDS people of what they already know.

At least that's my take on it.

[rug]

7. Eulogy means good word. Eu angel means good news.

From which angels are called messengers.

I don't think evangelists tell people what to believe. If anything, they tell people what they should believe, based on the good news. People can take it or leave it - and often they leave it.

[enlightenment]

16. Err . . . what?

"I don't think evangelists tell people what to believe".

"If anything, they tell people what they should believe . . ."

I'm sorry - but what is the difference between telling someone 'what to believe' and telling someone 'what they should believe'?

Are you suggesting that the first implies force and the second doesn't? I suspect that distinction depends on where you're standing.



As for logos versus 'angel' - you're splitting hairs a bit, I think - but I won't argue. They are both words that have been largely appropriated by the church.

(Do you use Liddell and Scott? If not, try Perseus.org - one of the coolest websites on the Internet!

[rug]

21. You've got it.

The distinction comes down to the power to enforce your beliefs. And that's where religion ends and politics begins.

(Thanks for the link. I hadmn't heard of Perseus.org.)

[Jim__]

9. Of course it is.

It's amazing the hoops people will jump through to try to find a distinction that doesn't make any difference. It's in your face evangelism.

[darkstar3]

10. Only if you like twisting the meaning of words. n/t

[laconicsax]

18. How on Earth is encouraging atheists to come out evangelism?

By your definition, a billboard for personal injury lawyer is evangelism.

[Jim__]

31. I've had Christians tell me the same thing.

"You know it's true."

Of course, the people who know the truth know that everyone else "really" knows it too. They just have to admit it.

A personal injury lawyer is not trying to convince me to believe what he believes. He's trying to convince me he can get me some money. Different thing.

[laconicsax]

34. The billboard in question isn't trying to convince you to believe anything either.

It isn't trying to convince anyone to believe what someone else believes, it's trying to encourage people to stop hiding what they already don't believe.

I find it absolutely hilarious that some Christians are getting all pissy over a billboard that's directed towards non-Christians.

[cleanhippie]

33. OF course it isn't.

From Merriam-Webster...

Definition of EVANGELISM
1
: the winning or revival of personal commitments to Christ
2
: militant or crusading zeal

[ZombieHorde]

11. Your question is a semantical one, so let's look at Dictionary.com.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evangelism

e·van·ge·lism
   /ɪˈvændʒəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled Show IPA
–noun
1.the preaching or promulgation of the gospel; the work of an evangelist.

2.evangelicalism.

3.missionary zeal, purpose, or activity.

----------------

#3 looks promising, let's see what a missionary is...

------------------

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/missionary

mis·sion·ar·y
   /ˈmɪʃəˌnɛri/ Show Spelled Show IPA noun, plural -ar·ies, adjective
–noun Also, mis·sion·er.

1.a person sent by a church into an area to carry on evangelism or other activities, as educational or hospital work.

2.a person strongly in favor of a program, set of principles, etc., who attempts to persuade or convert others.

3.a person who is sent on a mission.

–adjective

4.pertaining to or connected with religious missions.

5.engaged in such a mission, or devoted to work connected with missions.

6.reflecting or prompted by the desire to persuade or convert others: the missionary efforts of political fanatics.

7.characteristic of a missionary.

------------------------

#3 and #6 looks the closest to your desires, but I believe we would have to intentionally misinterpret the definition to call the billboards sponsors "missionaries."

[rug]

12. Wiktionary has an interesying definition.

evangelism (plural evangelisms)

1. Sharing news of something in order to convince someone to join or otherwise accept it. The process of evangelizing.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/evangelism

[darkstar3]

13. There are 2 problems with that.

1. Wikipedia is not accurate.
2. More importantly, it is clearly stated in your pulled quote that the billboards are not attempting to get people to join atheism.

[ZombieHorde]

15. That definition seems to make almost all conscious adult humans evangelicals.

News + persuasion = evangelicalism? Doesn't seem right to me.

If I try to convince my wife to go out for Mexican food, instead of Italian food, because of a great deal going on, then I am being an evangelical?

In my communication classes, we call this logos.

[rug]

17. Persuasion is found in all human endeavors.

When it concerns religion, the term evangelism is used as often pejoratively as it is admirably.

The billboard in question is an attempt at persuasion, whether to become conivinced that religion is a myth or to "come out of the closet", an inapt term.

[laconicsax]

20. Is wishing someone "Merry Christmas" evangelism?

Just curious.

[rug]

22. No. As an aside, is your avatar showing the front or back of a gnu?

[laconicsax]

23. What a delicious double standard.

According to you, putting up a billboard to encourage atheists in their non-belief is evangelism, but promoting a Christian holiday to everyone isn't.

It's nice to know that some things never change.

[rug]

24. Thanks for answering my question.

[laconicsax]

26. Thanks for reminding me that you asked it. I'll correct that oversight here.

It's the letter "A" with horns. The "A" stands for "atheist" or "atheism," the horns represent the gnu, but I think you knew that.

[rug]

27. I know what it is. I asked which way it's facing.

[laconicsax]

28. Which way does that bronze-age torture device you worship face? n/t

[rug]

29. I see from your answer which way it's facing.

[laconicsax]

30. Glad you could work it out. n/t

[darkstar3]

25. So why is "come out of the closet" an inapt term?

[trotsky]

36. Same twisting that's used to try and apply the label "fundamentalist"...

to atheists. No surprises in that regard.

[laconicsax]

19. No, it isn't.

Even if you expand the definition of evangelism to include promoting something that isn't a religion, it doesn't qualify.

[cleanhippie]

32. No, not at all. According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, definitely not.

evan·ge·lism
noun \i-ˈvan-jə-ˌli-zəm\
Definition of EVANGELISM
1 : the winning or revival of personal commitments to Christ
2 : militant or crusading zeal


Definitely not definition #1
Certainly not militant, and hardly a crusade (but certainly a campaign, but thats not the same thing)


So the answer to your question is a resounding NO!

[Nihil]

35. Not particularly

> An atheist group that has paid for a large billboard outside the Lincoln Tunnel
> reading “You KNOW it’s a Myth” says it is targeting “closet” atheists as part
> of its Christmas season campaign.

Not evangelism at all, just shit-stirring/flame-baiting/mischief-making and waiting
to watch heads explode. Like they say, it's just "part of their Christmas season
campaign".

:evilgrin:

As someone (laconicsax?) noted up thread, it is no more "evangelism" than wishing
someone "Merry Christmas". In the same way that I'd suggest an athiest simply
ignore any such unwanted "greeting", I'd suggest that any "true believer" who feels
offended by a few words on a billboard should just ignore it and concentrate on
the traffic rather than the adverts.

:shrug:

"Don't feed the trolls" applies IRL as well as online ...

[trotsky]

37. The answer is patently clear from what you've quoted.

David Silverman, the president of the organization, spoke to 1010 WINS Saturday and said the purpose of the billboard was to “attract atheists who are currently in the closet.”

Is it "evangelism" when you're speaking to someone who already agrees with you?

[raccoon]

38. I think there are lots and lots of atheists in the closet. And many of them are members of very

conservative churches.

[charlie]

39. And the Catholic League counters from the other end of the tunnel

It's Christmas again. Get yer war on.





http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/catholics-fire-back-in-christmas-billboard-battle/?apage=1

[rug]

40. This reminds me of two dogs circling a hydrant.

[darkstar3]

41. It takes two for a pissing contest,

and the first one is the antagonist only if you concede that the responder owned the territory to begin with.

[rug]

78. All evidence to the contrary, you really do not know what a pissing contest is.

[laconicsax]

80. As an expert on the subject, why not elaborate.

[rug]

81. Here you go, Joe.

1. pissing contest

A pissing contest is any argument that just goes back and forth between two individuals but never gets resolved.

Joe: "I can piss farther than you can."
Bob: "No you can't!"
Joe: "Yes I can!"
Bob: "No you can't!"
Joe: "Yes I can!"
Bob: "No you can't!"
Joe: "Yes I can!"
Bob: "Prove it!"
Joe: "OK, you go first!"
Bob: "No, you go first!"
Joe: "No, you go first!"
Bob: "No, you go first!"
Joe: "No, you go first!"
... and so on.

Pete: "Man! That's one helluva pissing contest you two guys are having.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing%20contest

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. pretty much --yep

yes. I am getting out of this thread, rug.

Thanks for the link though.

[darkstar3]

75. A hasty retreat?

I find that prudent in your case.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

42. yes ...

witnessing to non-believers....

no different than witnessing to believers.

[darkstar3]

43. Only if you don't understand the connotations of the word "witnessing". n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. care to expand on that ...and by the way know beforehand that I consider

atheism to be a religion. A lot of people worship money as another religion.

[darkstar3]

45. Then you are changing the word religion to fit whatever you like.

Atheism is a religion like not fucking goats is a hobby.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. say you fuck goats for a hobby..........

really.

[darkstar3]

48. I don't understand.

Are you proposing a hypothetical or are you simply daring me to accuse you of being a lonely Appalachian goat-herder?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

52. I dare you to expand on your original thought that it appear s you are

trying to avoid with this misdirection.

[darkstar3]

53. My original thought is there above in its entirety.

As you have been told repeatedly and shown by others, atheism is not a religion. Feel free though to manufacture some sort of offense so you can avoid that debate you will undoubtedly lose.

[cleanhippie]

50. You are just showing your willful ignorance now.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

51. oh please

he started this nastiness. I just called him on it.

[cleanhippie]

54. oh please, yourself.

First, contrary to accepted definition, you "consider atheism to be a religion" when its not, then you purposely misquote another poster in a sophomoric attempt to, I really don't know WHAT you were trying to do.

In TWO instances in this thread alone, you have been willfully ignorant of the facts.

WHY?


on edit: just to give you the benefit of the doubt, he stated "atheism is a religion like NOT fucking goats is a hobby." You do see the NOT fucking goats, right?

[darkstar3]

57. S/He saw the NOT.

But if you look at the words the right way, with just the right amount of umbrage, you can think that I compared all religious people to goat-fuckers.

When you're terrified that you don't have a leg to stand on, the best thing to do is find some way to make it look like the opposition is attacking you unfairly, and you'll get bonus points if you can claim bigotry or persecution.

Parsing and faux-trage, the go-to defenses of the terminally wrong.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

58. no. sorry. I did NOT see the NOT ....mea culpa

and I will edit if you want.

However I still standby my premise that atheism can be a form religion.

[darkstar3]

62. Prove it downthread. n/t

[cleanhippie]

66. So you stand by ignorance?

I provided you with the Merriam-Webster definition of religion. Are you choosing to ignore that? No matter WHAT definition you want to try and apply, to be a religion, there has to be a BELIEF in something. Atheism is a LACK of belief, so by that one discerning factor alone, atheism cannot be a religion.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

69. I stand by the fact that I did not see the word NOT

sheesh, dude.

don't make it more than it is.

Atheists worship in their NONBELIEF

It is a paradox.

[cleanhippie]

72. Are you trying to get a free lesson in vocabulary and definitons?

Because your blatant misuse of words leads me to believe you are really just using this thread as free tutoring.

[Amaya]

47. how is atheism a religion?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

55. just as people worship money ...some people revel in their non-belief

and like to lord their arrogance of "knowledge" over others. This is, indeed, a form of religion. Basically they worship their human form and I have found they worship science as the holy answer.

[darkstar3]

59. No one worships money.

That's just another twist of words. Now, people certainly covet money. People can certainly be slaves to money, after a fashion. But I can guarantee you that no one actually worships money, since first they'd have to idolize or personify it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. all or nothing (no one in this instant) statements are usually found to be false.

people used to worship statues, the sun and all other "things" perhaps some still do.

How do you know what everyone or anyone does? Are you ominpotent?

[cleanhippie]

68. *facepalm* *headshake*

wow, just wow.

oh yeah, and to be all knowing is to be OMNISCIENT, not omnipotent. I think I am seeing the problem here. Your vocabulary skills are not what you think they are.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

70. yes, sorry I am on the phone while posting

typo as much as anything.

[cleanhippie]

73. Hahahahahahahaha! Now it's a typo. Got it.

Refer to my reply #72

[darkstar3]

74. Provide any evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever idolized or personified money

in order to worship it.

[cleanhippie]

76. I think TA has departed

I was starting to feel bad, s/he was really digging deeper and deeper in that hole, and we just kept filling it in...



STARTING to feel bad, but not actually feeling bad. Ignorance needs to be confronted strongly, every time, IMO.

[trotsky]

83. Really?

Do they sacrifice goats to Geology?

Do they perform a liturgy for Laser Optics?

Do they do baptisms for Biology?

How about communion for Chemistry?

Honestly, your position here (which has been trotted out by countless believers before you who resent atheists speaking their minds) rests solely on equivocation of terms like "belief" and "worship" and "religion." You end up twisting and distorting those words so much to make them apply to people you don't like (so you can marginalize them and dismiss their opinions) that you destroy any useful meaning they have.

[cleanhippie]

49. You can consider it, but you are still incorrect

From the dictionary...

re·li·gion –noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.



Unless you are so special that you get to make words mean something they don't mean, then you are incorrect in your "consideration" that atheism, a lack of belief in a god, is a religion.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

56. the word in question is WITNESS

try to keep up

[darkstar3]

60. Actually, witnessing in the connotation you have used it requires religion,

so the word in question now is religion. You must first prove that atheism is a religion before you can claim that people are witnessing for it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

65. then HOW do you take the billboard in question? What does the billboard

mean to you?

[cleanhippie]

77. I think that has been stated emphatically numerous times.

now you are just being obtuse.

[cleanhippie]

64. Try to slow down instead.

Your exact quote: and by the way know beforehand that I consider atheism to be a religion.

You can try, but you cannot run away from that.


And had you BOTHERED to read the article in the OP regarding this billboard, you would KNOW that the target audience is NON-BELIEVERS. Its a billboard to support NON-BELIEVERS, not a billboard to proselytize and convert and WITNESS. We leave that to the religious folks, as that is their forte'.

Now where will you go with this now?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. target audience is NONbelievers .... ergo Atheists ... right?

stand up and be proud in it.

damn I know I would.

what is wrong with it?

Revel in it.

sheesh.


yours or anyone else's nonbelief is of no consequence to me.

and YES I realize who they were targeting.

I fear for YOUR reading comprehension skills.

[cleanhippie]

71. Moving the goalposts, I see.

Now that you have been thoroughly refuted in every way, you spew some bizarre nonsense that has nothing to do with your original point, but trying to make it look like it was.

[rug]

79. You're right. It's concomitant with urging people to leave the closet.

Leading by example, etc.

[immoderate]

82. Atheists really don't evangelize.

I associate that word with "converting" people. Most atheists I know don't care much what people believe. They are usually explaining the basis for why they don't believe. Christians see this as evangelism because that's what they do and why they express their beliefs.
Atheists usually feel you can't persuade someone's beliefs unless they are ready to rely on critical thinks.

Again, Christians see everything as evangelism. It's what they're programmed to do. Atheist don't think in those terms. They usually arrive at atheism on their own. An expression of ideas is not an effort to influence.

--imm