Why didn't Jesus work his way up to the top of the hierarchy before proposing reforms?

[Boojatta]

It worked for Gorbachev.

[Fumesucker]

1. There's only one step further up than "Son of God"..

So it would seem that Jesus was about as far up the hierarchy as He was gonna get without some sort of divine coup..

[mdmc]

2. I was gonna say

how much higher could he go?

[Boojatta]

7. The hierarchy that I had in mind was ...

... the hierarchy of human religious authorities in the religious institutions that existed when and where Jesus lived.

[Fumesucker]

16. I figured that was the case but your OP left such a gaping hole in its logic that I couldn't resist.

I couldn't resist exploiting that hole.

A lot of your posts would benefit from tightening up your rhetoric to say what you really mean and leave less room for interpretation, we've had a conversation about this in just the last few days I believe.

But then you wouldn't be the Boojatta so many of us have come to know and love.. :hi:

[Boojatta]

18. "we've had a conversation about this in just the last few days I believe."

Link?

[Fumesucker]

19. On your thread about the "recent" split between science and religion..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x268530#268536

Your use of the word "recent" was unnecessary and confusing to the issue you actually wished to discuss (I suppose anyway, I often have trouble discerning exactly what your point is).

[Xipe Totec]

3. Nepotism n/t

[LuvNewcastle]

4. He really should have waited for

his dad to die or at least retire. Just seems like the mannerly thing to do.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Jc was more impatient than many realize. nt

[AnneD]

6. Yet another member ....

of the lucky genes club. It is all about nepotism and family pulling strings for you. He was such a trouble maker he really did have to have his father's help...I mean really, having a party with out enough food and drink. Leaving a boat in the middle of the lake in a storm-I mean really, what was that all about. He kept getting his father to bail him out but eventually he got in to deep. Talk about acting entitled. :eyes:

[stray cat]

8. Render onto Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are God's

[Radical Activist]

9. Jesus never implemented any reforms but he did maintain his righteousness.

Obviously, some would rather have a righteous martyr who always loses in the world of politics than someone who accomplishes something.

[Boojatta]

10. Good answer!

:)

[Fumesucker]

15. So it is your contention that Jesus never accomplished anything?

I'm a devout atheist and I don't believe that, I think Jesus' message was a powerful one that resonates with a lot of people and has changed a lot of lives over the years.

Even if you allow for the fact that a huge percentage, possibly even a majority, of "Christians" live a life that would be antithetical to the teachings of the Christ that still leaves a lot of people who have been touched by His message.

[man4allcats]

11. Well, I think He would have gotten a lot further had He taken a more bipartisan approach.

If He had been less idealistic, He could have worked a few backroom deals behind closed doors with that Beelzebub guy. Maybe He could've even circumvented that other guy altogether - what was His name again? the one He was responsible to? - oh yeah! I remember now! God the Father! That was His name. Hey, that compromise approach has been known to work before. You know, like in the U.S. Oh wait...

[Silent3]

12. He should have started with lasers, eight o'clock, day one. n/t

[DeSwiss]

13. Maybe he wasn't worried about the outcome of his actions.....

...because his contract had a M.W.C. in it:



- Either that, or he just wasn't cutout for administrative work.....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slAgzJmdU&feature=player_embedded">Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus?

[LAGC]

14. K&R for another great Boojatta religious thread!

:hi:

[Igel]

17. I look at it this way.

He was the son of the company's owner. The owner gave instructions to his management team and they decided to ignore it. When the owner's son came along he pointed out not just what the original instructions were and how the management team screwed it up, but how those instructions were going to get much tougher--and even gave a few warnings that the management team and employees had better shape up for when he was in charge. Or else.

But he wasn't in charge. Yet. After all, he was the Christ, the Messiah, annointed but not installed as king. Sort of like David was while Saul was on the throne. And rather than follow his instructions they decided to get the authorities to dispense with him, mostly because they didn't accept that he really was the owner's son at the time. (Saul wasn't too zipped up over David, either, and tried to have him killed.) The current crop of Sauls has since then been fairly successful at running the business they way the customers want it run and have grown the business in ways that make it pretty much unrecognizable. However, they also split into factions and so produced a huge number of smaller businesses, some sort of following the original instructions, some deciding that some part of the son's instructions suit them best as long as they can do what they want to do the rest of the time.

Meanwhile the son is just waiting for the big house-cleaning when he comes back to establish his authority . After all, pretty much all of them that they did what they wanted to do while claiming to be following him, using claims of doing some small portion of what he said to cover their asses. Wouldn't be a pretty sight.

[Deep13]

20. Two reasons that I can see.

One, the reforms he wanted were a fundamental threat to the power structure as it existed. It would be like trying to become CEO of Exon based on the idea of ending fossile fuel use or capitalism generally.

Second, unlike Mohammed, he wasn't a politician. He was not willing to be part of a corrupt system for years. He just had what he considered a better way and told people about it.

[tama]

21. The real question

why did Jesus take responsibility of any form of hierarchy in his actions - taking twelwe disciples and all that followed from that decision...

[ZAROVE]

23. 12 Disiples?

Actually he took about 5000 or so Disiples.

I really don't get why peoepl think he had 12 Disiples hwen he relaly had 12 Apostles. While the Apostles were alsop Disiples, he had many more Disiples han Apostles and the terms are not interchangable. As a Disiple is a Student your basiclaly sayign only 12 peopel bothered to listen tohim. But that's really not what the text of the New Testament says.


As for the weak argument of reform and the Heirarchy, the Levitical Priesthood was Hereditary, and he was not a Levite. He coudl not join them. This left only three other chpices.

1: Join the ROman legions.

Yeah this wasn't going to happen.

2: Join some sort of Political Body. But then he'd have to contend with King Herod Aggrippa who I doubt woudl give p his Power.

3: Do what he did. Become an itenerate Rabbi.


Rabbi's are autonomous and have no Heirarhcy to climb.

[Boojatta]

22. Kick

[tama]

24. Because he was not a socialist

but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbmWs6Jf5dc

[DerekG]

25. I don't think Jesus would have lasted long in the hierarchy

"Alright, today we're gonna talk about how we can maximize profits for next week's Temple sacrifices. Brother Jesus, I can see you're eager to say something..."

"I say we topple Caesar's statue, melt the gold and give the proceeds to the poor."

"Uh, will someone get me Pilate on the line?"