Spain: Pope Blesses Anti-Gay Rally

[onager]

General Franco to be resurrected any minute now...

The theme of this love-fest was "The Christian Family: the hope of Europe." :rofl: Yep, just ask the European Jews.

Oh, here, go ahead and select your pre-loaded defenses for this forum:

1. Pope Panzer really didn't bless the rally.

2. He really did bless the rally, but non-Xian DU'ers are too theologically ignorant to grasp the subtle PRO-gay nuances of what he said.

3. Whatever he said was only meant metaphorically, not literally - just like that Jesus guy. So no worries. It's not like he blessed the actual clubs and firebombs of his Xian gay-bashers or anything.

SPAIN: Pope Blesses Anti-Gay Rally

Yesterday Pope Benedict spoke via satellite from the Vatican to bless the hundreds of thousands gathered at a massive annual anti-gay marriage rally in Madrid. The rally was sponsored by the Archdiocese of Madrid with the support of the Popular Party, Spain's right-wing movement which has vowed to overturn same-sex marriage.

Organized by the Archdiocese of Madrid and Cardinal Antonio Rouco Varela under the motto ‘The Christian Family: the hope of Europe,’ the event began at 10 AM in the Plaza de Colon.

The cardinal, in the company of fifty bishops from Spain, France, The Netherlands, and as far away as Poland, celebrated Mass on an elevated dais that was surmounted by a white cross some sixty feet tall. Also present were the thousands of lay people, including small children, representing not only Spain, but also various other countries and represented by their national flags. Bishop José Ignacio Munilla of San Sebastian called on participants to offer “testimony that encourage us, because what is being offered in the media is an untruthful model of unstructured family. We want a real family model that encourages us, testimony from exemplary families. Secondly, prayer that is offered communally has a very special power and the more people united in communion the more power there will be to foster a stable family.”

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/01/spain-pope-blesses-anti-gay-rally.html

[Democrats_win]

1. We should bless the gays--it has the same value as the Pope's blessing!

The institution of the pope is a complete fraud. Jesus, not the pope, is the head of the true Christian church. The legacy of popes through history would please Satan, not God!

[crim son]

3. Yep, and Jesus is long dead.

No telling what he'd think about shit that goes down in this modern world.

[RKP5637]

4. Yep, in their mind they are the religion. God and Jesus are just

secondary players.

[RKP5637]

2. Yep, using god and jesus values to strike others down, as usual. ... can't stand

this guy. Just substitute Anti-(anything) for Anti-Gay - same bigoted old crap.

[Downtown Hound]

5. The Catholic Church has been a nothing but a criminal operation from its get go

a thousand years ago. The Vatican should be burned to the ground. Hey Pope, why don't you ask all those little boys and girls that got molested and abused by your "men of God" how they feel about your "family values?"

[backscatter712]

6. That's how the Catholic Church works.

If you're a priest, you'll get excommunicated for marrying a gay couple, but the Church will protect you if you molest the altar boys.

MAKES SENSE TO ME!!!

[rug]

7. Pope addresses huge crowds via satellite in Spain

That's the original headline.

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=124&id=46077&t=Pope+addresses+huge+crowds+via+satellite+in+Spain

Where is joemygod.com getting the connection to the Popular Party?

[Goblinmonger]

9. They are the party that wants to overturn same-sex marriage.

The pope wants to over turn same sex marriage.

Is it really that big of a leap?

And here it is from the AP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110102/ap_on_re_eu/eu_spain_family_mass_1

[rug]

10. That's the least of it.

This group evolved from the People's Alliance.

"The People's Alliance (Spanish: Alianza Popular , AP ) was a coalition, and a later political party, of right-wing parties founded in 1976 by Manuel Fraga along with other former Francoist ministers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Alliance_%28Spain%29

This warrants more examination than an easy headline.

[Goblinmonger]

11. The pope is aligned with ultra-conservative assholes?

I'm shocked.

:satire:

[rug]

12. That's a nuanced analysis of a potentially destructive resurgence.

This is not about assholes.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

13. I'm not sure if your defense most closely

follows Onager's option #2 or option #3. I think it may be a combination of both, at least implicitly.

[rug]

14. I'm not sure if you're reading the same thread I am.

I made a observation not a defense.

A potential resurgence of a mass fascist movement seems to have been lost in fraternity banter about a pope.

[darkstar3]

15. Maybe that fact got lost

because this is the R/T board, which therefore means that the pope and his actions, not to mention blessings and endorsements, are going to be a topic of interest here.

The pope blessed a group that may just be a resurgence of a mass fascist movement, and you want people in the R/T board to ignore that fact?

[rug]

18. Which do you consider more significant, the pope's speech or the fascist presence?

[darkstar3]

21. The Pope's speech gives credence to the fascist presence, so...

[rug]

23. ... unless the Popular Party's "support" was simply a press release. Do you know?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

26. That point doesn't matter if the rally was anti-gay

It doesn't matter which political parties supported the rally. It was a bigoted anti-gay rally - are you disputing that?

[rug]

29. It doesn't matter if fascists supported the rally?

[Goblinmonger]

35. The point is that the pope did.

If the fascists did, that's a whole additional level. But it's enough to know that the pope did.

I mean, it's not like the RCC has a history of connection to extremists in Spain.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

16. Oh I'm reading the same thread as you

Just not through the same filter you use to ignore contradictory or inconvenient facts.

[rug]

20. A fascist presence at a mass movement is not an lnconvenient fact.

You of course are free to disagree.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

22. Papal support for that fascist presence shows his true colors

You of course are free to disagree.

[rug]

25. All you know is the PP supported the rally. Do you know if the converse is true?

Coincidence is not causation. Did I get that right?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

27. LOL

The diocese sponsored the rally and the pope spoke at it. I assume that Benedict's speech didn't center around a loving and accepting pro-gay message?

[rug]

30. LOL functions poorly as an answer and is too thin to serve well as a screen.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

31. Didn't LOL as a screen - LOLed because we're going around in circles

We're talking past each other.

[Goblinmonger]

17. A very powerful pope aligning himself with that movement.

And you seem to want to deflect attention from that pope and onto the group as somehow separate from the movement.

[rug]

19. Nothing yet posted states who aligned with whom.

The closest is your yahoo link which states the PP "supported" the rally. Which means what exactly? Which is why I asked the question in the first place.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

24. The rally was organized by the diocese and the pope spoke at it

How much more "support" does the pope and/or the catholic church need to give to the rally before it becomes unacceptable to you?

[rug]

28. My comment was about the Popular Party connection.

My interest is in opposing fascism not Catholicism. Do you have a problem with that?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

32. Nope

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j6egYsy0p7i2Kp3j4cTOsk3LJbog?docId=d68e71b043754d96bb9d69a51c9768dc

It's your defense of the pope doing indefensible things that I have a problem with.

[rug]

33. It's your obtuseness I have a problem with.

That link doesn't even mention the Popular Party. I see you have nothing factual to offer on that larger point. I'll look elsewhere.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

37. Wrong

From that link:

"The outdoor service under bright blue skies in Colon square was conducted by Archbishop Antonio Rouco Varela on Sunday with the backing of the conservative opposition Popular Party."

[Goblinmonger]

34. So, let's break it down a little.

You can answer to each of these individually.

1. Does the pope support anti-gay legislation in Spain and elsewhere?
1A. Is that OK with you? (i.e. are you willing to condemn the RCC and the pope for that stance?)

2. Does the Franco connected conservative party in Spain support anti-gay legislation?

3. Are the RCC/pope and the Franco connected party on the same side (read: wrong side) of the anti-gay legislation?

4. Regardless of causation (Pope supporting Franco or Franco supporting Pope or both), does the pope find himself on the same side of a legal issue as Franco-ites?
4A. Is that troublesome to you, regardless of causation?

[rug]

36. Here you go.

1) Yes
a} No

2) Yes

3) Yes

4) Yes
a) No

Simple questions and simple answers that do not supply factual information about the nature of the cooperation or collaboration, if any. You cannot disregard that if you are to have a credible intelligent position on the subject. It's sloppy and often wrong to extrapolate from coincidence.

[Angry Dragon]

8. "prayer that is offered communally"

These guys don't even follow their own god

Jesus said that if you prayed you should go into your own home and close the door
Prayer was to be done in private
I guess the new religion is to make it up as you go