I'm looking for a decent site for religious/spiritual progressives

[demwing]

Anyone have any suggestions?

[ZombieHorde]

1. Democratic Underground has a really nice religion/theology forum.

It is pretty active.

[Festivito]

8. "Pretty active" with a group of some atheists that run posters away from R/T.

It's to the point that we need a separate forum for "Non-anti-religion, non-anti-theology, Religion/Theology" forum just to have a decent discussion.

[skepticscott]

9. "Run posters away"... how exactly?

This is the internet. They're free to post as much as they want on any subject appropriate to the forum, and to answer other posts with their own opinions and arguments. As long as they follow site rules, no one can "run them off". If they choose to stop posting here on their own, that's their business. If they decide to leave because they don't like having their arguments demolished, one has to wonder how strong their arguments or convictions were in the first place. Isn't that the way the marketplace of ideas is supposed to work? (Cue the tone argument here).

And btw, there are a number of groups for the subjects you describe, where dissenting views are not permitted....but for some reason, their discussions in any depth are few and far between, to the point of being almost non-existent. Funny, that.

[Festivito]

11. Run them off: Yes. How: Unrelentingly unreasonable posting. Exactingly: Get a thesaurus.

You think people cannot be run off because there are rules. Hmm. So, nobody ever left? Yeeeeahh, riiiiiight.

[skepticscott]

14. Oh, the dreaded "unreasonable posting"!

Perhaps you could point us to some specific examples of the "unreasonable posting" that only religionists here are subjected to.

And yes, people stop posting here..but since you seemed to have missed the point (completely), I'll repeat it: leaving voluntarily is not the same thing as being "run off". If people leave because their unsupported, illogical, invalid ideas get no respect, and in fact get dismantled at every turn, tough. That's how a search for the truth works. If all they want is fawning politeness and to have their beliefs treated with kid gloves, an open discussion forum on the internet is not the place for them to find peace and happiness.

[darkstar3]

17. +1

[LeftishBrit]

28. 'Unreasonable posting' is in the eye of the beholder

Atheists can be 'run off'/ discouraged by 'unreasonable' posting too!

As an atheist, I have no problems with religion or religious people at all (religion is much less associated with the Right in the UK than the USA, though there are exceptions). However I do have problems with religious right-wingers of all faiths; with the political pro-life movement especially when associated with attempts to defeat pro-choice political candidates; and with political anti-secularism. I therefore have a problem with posts that imply that atheists are less ethical than Christians (or other religion) and especially with posts that imply that secularism is a bad influence on society. And there have been such.

I don't consider that I have a right never to see such posts; but similarly religious people don't have a right, on a general forum about religion/ theology. never to see posts that are flippant or sceptical about religion.

I wish all the best to all progressives, religious or secular.

[skepticscott]

55. Apparently you can't

Strange that you can't provide any examples of something that happens "unrelentingly".

[cleanhippie]

15. Bwahahahaha!

:rofl:

[darkstar3]

18. That discussion has been had,

and I believe the mod response was "enough already." Let it go.

[rug]

29. You believe wrong.

This was the mod response:

"The thread had devolved into what was agreed amongst the moderators was a "trainwreck" of personal attacks."

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rug]

32. I'm sure that was not your intention when you posted #24.

Because that would be against the rules. As is questioning motives.

And it is the answer I received.

[demwing]

24. You mean the forum we're in right now?

I'm aware of this forum. I just posted in it :P

Not what I'm looking for, but thanks anyway...

[ZombieHorde]

26. If you wish to avoid debate, then you may be enjoy some of the spiritual groups here on DU.

There are eight religious groups on DU that don't allow for critical debate, and only one that does.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=428

[demwing]

34. I enjoy debate, but I've lost patience with haters

and the hate/debate ratio on DU is lopsided.

[skepticscott]

35. Well, those who have been

asked to point out examples of hate spewed by atheists against religionists here have gone silent, for some mysterious reason.

[ZombieHorde]

38. Only topic friendly posts are allowed in those groups, so you should find them enjoyable. nt

[Lost-in-FL]

25. LOL!!! nt

[grasswire]

2. sojourners.org?

I haven't been there for a while.

[demwing]

23. I've heard of it, and will check it out. thanks! /nt

[napoleon_in_rags]

3. Not this site.

The religion and theology forum here is fixated on atheism/existential issues and never really goes deep beyond. I say look for forums related to your faith path, and then take the time to find a smart liberal group there.

[skepticscott]

10. Maybe if those who whine

about not having serious, in depth discussions of theology and faith here would actually HAVE one, instead of trotting out the same tired, debunked arguments over and over and over, that might change. The fact that they can't seem to have a meaningful discussion of anything in the presence of dissenting opinions should tell a rational person something. Hit and run OPs by people who won't stay to defend or debate their points against well-considered and knowledgeable disagreement are all too common here.

[napoleon_in_rags]

47. Here's R and T in a different light

Instead of being about God, its about something else personal and intangible, like love.

Person #1: You know, I feel like cupid is always drunk when he shoots his bow my way. The arrow hits me, then he just misses the guy I am interested in, so its one of his friends that falls for me instead. Anybody else have this?
Person #2: Yeah, I hate that. The worse part is, the person you were interested backs off of any interest because their friend is into you.
Person #3 : Here's an idea, how you realize that THERE IS NOT BABY FLYING AROUND SHOOTING YOU WITH ARROWS.
Person #2: Oh. So you believe there is no such thing as love eh?
Person #3: Hey I don't BELIEVE anything, so STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH. I'm an ANamorist, that means I have NO BELIEFS, I face FACTS. I don't believe in Santa claus or unicorns. Get it?
Person #1: Yeah, nevermind. See ya!

[darkstar3]

53. That light is awfully jaundiced...

[Ninjaneer]

54. Love is provable.

See the multitude of papers written on that particular emotion. We know the chemical basis for love: Dopamine, Seratonin, Oxytocin, etc. It can be quantified based on properly devised experiments.

Nice try.

[napoleon_in_rags]

58. If Love is provable, then so is God.

Love, that entity, that thing we can fall in, does not exist as an independent entity like the rock of Gibraltar, its not something we can point to. Yet it drives people. It motivates them and shapes the world. Its like the value of the paper dollar, the mere fact that so many people believe in it means it has currency, though its technically just a piece of paper like all currencies.

God the idea, God the experience, is real enough to shape the world like love or currency. And that's real enough for me.

[Ninjaneer]

59. "love" is a word we assigned to a series of chemical reactions.

These chemicals and their interactions can be quantified and has been quantified. Yes, we can point to "love" with an MRI machine.

Before you tell me something like "well look through the hubble telescope, much like seeing the 'effect' of love, you're seeing the effects of God", let me remind you that the ideas of love and god, and what they claim, are vastly different. The type of evidence that can be considered proof for love can't be considered proof for god.

Show me a scientific paper that validates ANY aspect of god, as defined biblically, or quranically (or whatever other religious text). Any single paper that proves prayer works, that sometimes the laws of nature are suspended, that there is one super power controlling everything. That is the kind of proof required to prove the existence of god.

"And that's real enough for me."

Great for you, but the rest of us are going to go ahead and wait on some evidence. "Evidence" other than the mass delusion of others that is.

[napoleon_in_rags]

60. So love is real because you can point to it with an MRI machine.

But you can't point to God with an MRI? But that's one of the arguments of atheists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
This helmet was used to suppose an electro-magnetic causation for religious and mystical experiences.

Love and God are aspects of the human experience, beyond their existential status. People have used stories to try to gain understanding of each, and those stories are part of who we are.

[Ninjaneer]

61. Your post makes me think you did not even read mine.

"...the ideas of love and god, and what they claim, are vastly different. The type of evidence that can be considered proof for love can't be considered proof for god."

I addressed the very issue you raise before you even raised it.

No matter, I know when I have hit a wall.

A pleasant day to you, sir.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[darkstar3]

64. Why come in here and piss on the forum?

Really, just take your own advice.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. I think you meant to post this as a reply to #47, didn't you?

After all, that's the post that introduced the idea of substituting 'love' for 'god' as the subject of discussion. #54 was just replying to that.

And please don't lower the tone of the thread by telling people to 'grow up'. Strictly, it's against the DU rules, since it's a personal attack.

[skepticscott]

56. You don't seem to be able

to distinguish figurative speech from claims of objective fact and knowledge.

Back to the drawing board.

[laconicsax]

4. There are several groups on DU for religion/spirituality

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=428

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demwing]

22. thanks! /nt

[bananas]

5. Here are some religious/spiritual progressive radio shows

Most of these are archived for play on demand.
Here's some I'd recommend.

On www.kpfk.org :
Inner Vision - Nita Vallens
The Aware Show - Lisa Garr (not archived, live only)
Something's Happening with Roy of Hollywood - Roy Tuckman
Alan Watts

On www.kpfa.org :
The Visionary Activist Show - Caroline Casey

On www.wbai.org :
Positive Mind - Armand DiMele
(He's a psychologist so it's only spiritual in the sense of human spirit, not religious.)

On www.ckdu.ca :
Yoga Heart Radio - Mandee Moon

[bananas]

6. Disarm Now Plowshares

http://disarmnowplowshares.wordpress.com/

[demwing]

21. thanks, bananas, I'll check out all your links! /nt

[leveymg]

7. Tikkun is extraordinarily progressive and much of it is universal in scope

http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/

[demwing]

20. thanks! I'll check it out /nt

[WolverineDG]

13. Ironically, the Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing Group here on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=245

where many people with different belief systems actually do could be done in R/T.

dg

[cleanhippie]

16. And they are more than welcome, as you are, to post here, anytime.

[LAGC]

37. No kidding.

I mean, isn't it a self-fulfilled prophecy? If the believers and spiritual folks want to see more of a friendly presence in R/T, why don't they try and actually participate? Instead of just the drive-by complaining posts that they drop like a big turd and then never come back to reply to.

And then they wonder why everyone is "hostile" to them.

[demwing]

39. Yours is not an accurate, nor complete portrayal of the truth

I've seen posts where a DUer has said something simple like "Thank God for ..." (fill in the blank), only to see other DUers attack the OPs intelligence and sanity, solely based on that comment.

As an alternative to your recommendation, I submit the following proposal:

"In order to help create a more friendly presence in R/T --for believers and spiritual folks as well as for those who do not believe--then why don't the non-believers who are engaging in religious bigotry, simply stop?"

[LAGC]

40. Well and see, here is the problem.

How does an atheist express his point-of-view that the idea of God(s) and Goddess(es) are silly, without being labeled a "bigot" by believers?

Why is mere ridicule of certain beliefs equivalent to bigotry in your eyes?

I mean, believers have every opportunity to argue for why they believe their preferred God or Goddess is real, but once anyone even raises the question, the believer tends to "take his ball and go home?"

It just doesn't seem like many believers even try to make their case, they just cry "persecuted victim" and flee.

I'm all for some reasoned discussions and debates over such questions of divinity, but it just seems like believers often don't want to make their case, they just want to cry foul whenever someone disagrees.

[demwing]

42. Disagreeing is fine

ridicule is not

[cleanhippie]

48. Ridicule is sometimes warranted.

When someone espouses an idea, claim or argument that cannot be supported by fact, evidence, or argument, but can be refuted by fact or evidence or argument shown to be fallacious or illogical, continuing to repeat the claim or make the argument IS cause for ridicule.

Everyone gets the same opportunity to make a case. When one's case fails to pass muster, thats it. All bets are off.

[trotsky]

50. Do you side with those who ban images of Mohammed...

and threaten death to anyone who draws him in a cartoon?

[darkstar3]

41. And there it is.

"the non-believers".

It doesn't occur to you and your tone-concerned buddies that the believers here can engage in religious bigotry, or that they have in the past. All that concerns you is that religion receive the "appropriate level" of respect. :boring:

[demwing]

43. Bigotry from any source should be ended

And though I personally see more bigotry coming from one side than the other, you are right to call me out, and I stand corrected. Let my subject line speak for itself...

[darkstar3]

44. Your perception is colored by your conditioned desire to put religious thought on a pedestal.

[demwing]

45. Yours, by your desire to kick the pedestal over /nt

[darkstar3]

46. Comedically enough, that's a compliment.

I believe the world has no use for pedestals.

[demwing]

49. the world has plenty of use for pedestals

Some healthy, some not.

Some people put themselves on pedestals as well.

[trotsky]

52. There is no pedestal so important or "healthy"...

that it should not be kicked at least once in a while to see if it's really stable. If the idea is worthy, it can withstand the worst criticism and come through shining.

[trotsky]

51. So where's the anti-religious bigotry?

Personal attacks against individuals are against the rules and will be deleted. You aren't equating something like the statement "I think Christianity is irrational" with anti-religious bigotry, are you?

[skepticscott]

57. You've seen posts?

Care to point us towards a few to back your claim up? It seems like you're not the first to allege this kind of posting, but no one seems to have evidence for it, even though that evidence should be easy to provide.

[demwing]

19. thanks! /nt

[WolverineDG]

31. Enjoy!

Very nice group of folks there. :)

dg

[LeftishBrit]

27. There is a forum for 'Liberal Christians/Progressive People of Faith' on DU groups

As an atheist I may not be the best person to advise; but two good progressive religious sites IMO are:

www.ekklesia.co.uk

(Liberal Christian bloggers, UK)

www.tikkun.org

(Rabbi Lerner's site; Jewish predominantly, but with interfaith progressive interests)

[demwing]

33. Well I appreciate the links...thanks! /nt

[demwing]

62. I appreciate all the suggestions! But...

Does anyone know of similar progresssive spiritual Chat Groups or Forums? All I'm finding is online magazines and blogs - passive reading. I want something more interactive, and I want a break from DU for awhile. Can anyone help?