Marshfield man who allegedly came here to kill abortion provider ordered held in custody

[cleanhippie]

The Marshfield man who drove to Madison to kill an abortion doctor was ordered held in custody Friday as federal prosecutors considered new charges against him.

Ralph Lang, 63, faces a misdemeanor federal charge of attempting to injure, intimidate and interfere with people providing reproductive health services, according to a criminal complaint.

--snip--

Lang said he had been in Madison with a gun last week, but was having "spiritual struggles" and was not "100 percent in sync with God" so he did not shoot anyone.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_5270b430-87e9-11e0-a9e5-001cc4c002e0.html


---------------------------------------------

Are we going to pretend that his religious beliefs are not the motivating factor here?

[KansDem]

1. "100 percent in sync with God"

So you have to be 100 percent in sync with God before you kill someone?

Got it...!

[cleanhippie]

2. Apparently so.

[roguevalley]

8. no.

[laconicsax]

3. Why not pretend?

Apparently it's ok to pretend that hippies made otherwise innocent priests become serial rapists, so pretending that someone not committing murder because they weren't "100 percent in sync with God" can't be too far of a stretch.

[sudopod]

4. You forgot Poland

also, Jericho.

[humblebum]

7. So what was the excuse for the atheist wacko who shot Gabby Giffords?

Must've been listening to that nothing making alot of noise because it was really a something.

[cleanhippie]

22. I must have missed the part where his non-belief was his motivating factor.

Oh, yeah, thats right. It wasn't.

No matter how much you WANT it to be, it wasn't.

[humblebum]

26. Wrong again.

Among his other on line rants before he did the deed, he made a special effort to proclaim something to the effect "I refuse to trust in God!" And then of course there were the two young atheists who burned the churches in Texas last year, and then there was the atheist shooter who opened up on the church in Colorado a couple years back. So don't tell me that people don't do things because they are atheists. Some are just more militant than others.

[darkstar3]

27. There is simply no way to construe that statement

in a way that would make it motivation for, or insight into, his attempt at murder.

As for your other claim, without a link, I'd consider just as specious as your attempt to state that Loughner was motivated by his atheism because he once said he wouldn't trust in God.

[humblebum]

29. Are ya kinda gettin' the idea that maybe some of these people are doing these things

just because they are, in fact, deranged?

[laconicsax]

30. Except that's against the rules.

I'm pretty sure "deranged" is rightly considered a broad-brush attack against believers.

[darkstar3]

31. You've never heard of the crime triangle?

At least I think that's what it's called...

Opportunity
Motivation
Rationalization

If someone is presented with the opportunity to easily commit a crime, and they have a motive and the ability to rationalize their behavior in committing that crime, chances are good that they will do it. Religion in its various forms can provide anywhere from 1-3 of those pieces. The case shown in the OP, as well as the case of Scott Roeder, serve as examples where 2 of the 3 pieces are provided by religion. Examples of priestly sexual abuse show cases where all 3 pieces are provided by religion.

Derangement isn't nearly the story here. But you'd like it to be, which is why you're trying to bring Loughner into this. The two cases are in NO way related.

[humblebum]

32. Actually, they may be quite related give the internal rage each one

was dealing with. That is a common motivator for many crimes. You'd like to believe that somehow anti-religious sentiment is never a motivator, but history proves that it has very often been.

[darkstar3]

33. And anti-religious sentiment is not atheism.

You'd like to pretend the two are the same, as you so often have.

BTW: "May be" doesn't get the bridge built. We know that Roeder and this asshole were motivated by their religion, and we also know that Roeder believes his behavior excusable due to his religion.

[humblebum]

34. Where did I say they were the same? But nice spin. nt

[darkstar3]

35. This entire subthread is laden with that implication,

and so is any number of subthreads in which you bloviate about atheist dictatorships. You make the direct implication that anti-religious sentiment is the core of atheism every single chance you get. But you go ahead and hide behind the fact that you never actually typed those words in that order if it makes you feel better. Those of us who are able to read for comprehension will easily recognize how weak that defense is.

[cleanhippie]

36. I think it speaks to a sense of dishonesty.

It leaves a side door open for a quick escape, knowing that if there was no out, he would be trapped by his own words. Unable to say exactly what one means to say for fear of having those words used against oneself reeks of dishonesty, IMO.

[humblebum]

38. Implication is another word for guessing.

That being said, "Atheist dictatorships" is another issue altogether and there are many relevant similarities between the atheist movement of today and the actions of dictatorships that you refer to back when and even today.

[darkstar3]

39. Not if we're sticking to English. You're talking about inference.

Another distinction with which you have a problem.

[humblebum]

40. More spin. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. What? Giffords was shot because she was against atheism?

That's news to me.

[MichiganVote]

5. Prolly thought God should pull the trigger for him.

[struggle4progress]

6. Look! It's another brooding obsessive hate-filled single-issue wacko with a gun!

There seem to be a lot of them in recent years

[laconicsax]

9. Do you do theater?

You're good.

[rug]

10. I thought you were going to say another brooding obsessive hate-filled single-issue post.

[cleanhippie]

12. Well, that wouldn't be factual then, now would it.

But you go ahead and try to deflect away from the issue if you want.

[rug]

15. No, I think there's demonstrable evidence of that statement.

[cleanhippie]

16. And yet, not even a single comment about the topic at hand.

[rug]

17. I can't tell if the guy is deranged or not but his actions suggest he's over the edge.

If he is deranged, anything around him could accrete to his derangement. The stuff of psychosis is not a motive.

In any event, those groups that advocate violence to stop abortion are rare, few, and discredited.

[cleanhippie]

20. So religion played no part at all. Got it.

:eyes:

[rug]

23. You tell me.

http://www.dane101.com/current/2011/05/27/the_troubled_mind_of_a_wouldbe_abortion_doctor_assassin

When you stare into the eyes of pure lunacy, voices come out of the dark that say things to give you nightmares.

In May of ’06, I interviewed Ralph Lang. He’s an anti-abortion protestor, with personal experience in high-level Christian hallucinations on a regular basis.

http://thiswillhurtsomeone-someoneelse.blogspot.com/2010/02/praise-jesus-ralph-1-29-07.html

[cleanhippie]

24. "Christian hallucinations "

Indeed.

[rug]

25. "hallucinations"

[cleanhippie]

37. They are words you posted, not mine.

:shrug:

[rug]

41. Then you should know what a hallucination is

and what it is not.

[cleanhippie]

42. I do, and it does not change that this was, as you stated, a christian hallucination.

[cleanhippie]

11. Yes, you a right, and his single issue is his religious viewpoint of abortion.

And he acted on it.

[struggle4progress]

13. It wasn't his bible that shot a bullet into an adjoining motel room: it was his gun.

It's true some religious ideas seems to be associated with his action and also with his failure to act further:

... Lang was arrested in 2007 outside Planned Parenthood, telling an officer at the time that the "Bible states that anyone involved in abortion should be executed." In Lang's motel room, officers found a U.S. map with dots in each state and handwritten words above the northern U.S. border that said "some abortion centers," the complaint said. Also written on the map were the words "Blessed Virgin Mary says Hell awaits any woman having an abortion. Nurse or doctor who helps will one (sic)" ...
Wisconsin man charged with plan to attack abortion clinic
By John Rondy
MILWAUKEE | Fri May 27, 2011 3:52pm EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/27/us-abortion-wisconsin-charges-idUSTRE74Q69X20110527

... Lang also told Dyer that he planned to drive to a Planned Parenthood clinic when it opened at 8 a.m. Thursday, find the doctor who was performing abortions and shoot him in the head. Lang also said he had been in Madison either last Thursday or Friday and drove by the clinic because he thought surgical abortions were performed on those days. He had brought a gun last week but didn't use it because he was having "spiritual struggles and was not 100 percent in sync with God" ...
Police: Marshfield man planned to kill abortion doctor in Madison
Written by Kevin Murphy
http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20110527/WRT0101/305270093/Police-Marshfield-man-planned-kill-abortion-doctor-Madison?odyssey=tab|topnews|img|WRT-News

So what we have is a wacko with a gun, a confused and conflicted wacko, but a wacko: on the one hand, he's sure his religion preaches killing abortion providers -- and on the other hand he's not really sure

[cleanhippie]

14. Actually, HE fired the gun, it didn't do it on its own..

And I agree that he is a wacko. A wacko motivated by his religious beliefs. And now he has added a gun to the mix.




I guess I am confused about what your point is.

[struggle4progress]

18. Without a gun, he's just a wacko. Add a gun, and he becomes a wacko with a gun.

:shrug:

[cleanhippie]

21. You mean without a gun he is just a RELIGIOUS wacko.

And now he is, or was, a religious wacko with a gun.

Good thing he was an incompetent religious wacko with a gun, or we may have had another Tiller type shooting...

[Iggo]

19. That fucker scares the shit outa me!

Glad he's off the streets.