Study finds surprise fault lines in second-generation Canadians

[rug]

Evangelical Christian children of immigrants feel they can't openly practise their religion and worry that Christianity is no longer a guiding force in Canadian society, while Muslims say they're free to follow their faith in this country - but face other forms of discrimination.

Those are some of the intriguing findings of new research that will be presented on Sunday at the Congress of the Humanities and Social Sciences, the largest multidisciplinary academic gathering in Canada.

"I was a little bit surprised by the degree to which Christians feel put upon," said Peter Beyer, a professor of religious studies at the University of Ottawa.

His study gathered insights from about 350 second-generation Canadians age 18 to 30 through 36 focus groups in Sydney, N.S, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton and Vancouver

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Study+finds+surprise+fault+lines+second+generation+Canadians/4854911/story.html#ixzz1NelYnBuy

[veganlush]

1. All faiths should feel put upon.

[rug]

2. So should bigots.

[cleanhippie]

6. Thats what he said.

[rug]

14. That's what he demonstrated.

[RandomThoughts]

3. Well global institutions that don't care about spirituality

Do like some other religions that are easier to distort, then distortions of Christianity.

So it is not against Christians, it is against the teachings of social justice and helping people.


There are other doctrines that are more friendly to a few rich, and a few other doctrines that are easier to manipulate into security states.

Look at Saudi Arabia, the ability of that system to use its teachings is much easier to enslave a population under a monarchy, then a religion about helping the poor, and light and truth.

Again I am not talking as much about the religions, as how easy they are to distort by Machiavellian, but it makes sense for money to go against ideas of social justice.



But they should have sent the beer and travel money by now anyways, so there is going to have to be some drastic effects.

[rug]

4. That's true. All ideologies are used by ruling classes.

The only thing that changes is the ideology being used.

[Silent3]

5. Mostly a matter of differing expectations

When Christians say they "feel they can't openly practise their religion and worry that Christianity is no longer a guiding force in Canadian society" what they mean is they are shocked, shocked that any one ever criticizes or laughs at them, and that Canada's governmental institutions aren't actively promoting Christianity.

Muslims, on the other hand, having much lower expectations, are pleasantly surprised to simply be allowed to practice their faith in private without interference, and that public discrimination isn't quite so bad as they imagine it could be.

[brewens]

7. Right on. By "openly practicing", they mean in ways that force

their religion on others. If they are prevented from doing that, it's persecution. No one prevents Christians from openly going to their church or praying in public. The prayers just shouldn't disrupt anything else or coerce other to feel they have to participate in any way.

I ran a food vending business at motorcycle rallies for a few years. One rally, my girlfriend and I helped organize. I had noticed that the Christian biker guys that put on the Sunday service, always insisted on doing it right in the middle of things. Our cafe is always right there and we like to be playing music and enjoy it along with our morning breakfast crowd. We always had to turn off the music for the service.

When we were putting together the rally we are involved in, I got a couple guys together to set up an outdoor chapel. This I conveniently put clear at one end of the venue, away from most of the campers and the cafe. Convenient that is for everyone but the Christian bikers. When Sunday rolled around they refused to use the chapel and insisted on being on the bandstand right by the cafe.

I knew that was going to happen. The logs we drug in for the chapel and the podium were really no big deal. The point was that anyone that really wanted to participate in the service, would have went over there. Those of us not interested or still sleeping nearby the bandstand area, shouldn't have been bothered.

They know what they are doing. It's to try and "reach" people they think need Jesus. If we would have told them to buzz off and use the chapel, we would have gotten a bunch of crap over it.

[cleanhippie]

9. Your example is typical.

Holding a "service" right smack in the middle of everyone, careless about anyone but themselves, and when one steps up to say "hey, why are you putting your religion right in my face?" they scream PERSECUTION! PERSECUTION!

It's despicable. :puke:

[brewens]

10. These guys and their preacher bug me anyway. They set up

in their trailer by the entrance to the rally and sell hotdogs. The hotdogs aren't a big deal to us really but are minor competition. I think they do that to cover expenses and as a way to make contact with people.

All weekend long though, they never come and eat at our mobile. Then Sunday morning when we have the biggest crowd, they pounce on it.

If I said, "hell no! We won't turn off the music, go somewhere else," I'd be treated like the biggest ass in the world. Enough of our customers are into the service that I can't do that.

[cleanhippie]

11. Well, sometimes you just have to.

Be "the ass" that is. You went our of your way to construct a place suitable for their "service" and they chose not to use it. Until more people start stepping up and confronting things like this, they will just continue to do it. You might be surprised to find that there is more support than you think, especially when you offer an equitable solution, as you had done.

Me, I would have said no way.

[cleanhippie]

8. +100000

[Leontius]

12. Damn that poor guy wasted a lot of time on that study

he should have just come to you, no need to waste time asking Christians or Muslims what they think or feel you got it wired.

[rug]

13. Is that a quote from the study or is it your expectation?

Doesn't sound very empirical.

[Silent3]

15. It's a reasonably founded opinion

I did for a moment actually think about throwing in disclaimers like "I think that..." or "I'd guess that..." but really, unless I'm going out of my way to act as if I'm presenting an authoritative fact, is all that excess verbiage really necessary?

Why even comment? Do you really believe the contrary is true, that Canadian Muslims are really in a more privileged position than Canadian Christians? Is your persecution complex that big these days?

As far as I can tell from the article, this "study" is no more than a gathering opinions from focus groups, with people talking about their own lives. There's nothing there to suggest any effort was made to account for bias, background, or pre-existing positions of privilege in society.

[rug]

16. It's a reflex.

I doubt you have sufficient data to have a reasonably founded opinion on the study.

Some time you must tell me your data for asserting I have a persecution complex. Unless that's simply another reflex opinion.

In the meantime, you could contact the author of the study to establish a reasonably founded opinion of it

[e-mail]

http://www.cla-srs.uottawa.ca/eng/faculty/beyer.html