Are atheists morally superior, more intelligent, or more mentally sound compared to theists?

[rug]

[LaurenG]

1. dude!

This ought to be interesting. :rofl: I think I'll go to the store now but I am interested in seeing how this one goes.

[Warpy]

2. No, we just don't believe in gods.

Also, we get to sleep in on Sunday mornings, at least theoretically.

[zeemike]

3. You mean people like Ayn Rand and Stalin?

Can't say they are...but I don't doubt for a minuet that there are some better than Jerry Faldwell and the likes.

[rucky]

4. FWIW, They actually know more about the Bible

I think they were second to Mormons on Bible knowledge, in a recent study.

[rfranklin]

9. Are you gonna believe what you read in the Bible, or what you hear from Pastor Hagee?

It takes a man directly in touch with Jeezus to lead us from temptation and homosexual marriage.

[HereSince1628]

5. What? That 5th inning slide at 2nd in yesterday's Cards-Cubs game isn't

generating enough controversy?

[rug]

11. Sometimes I think Quade posts in R/T.

[HereSince1628]

12. He's oudda here!!

[rug]

13. Lol, the mods should wear hats.

[geckosfeet]

6. Objection. Leading the witness.

The premise of the question smells.

[Deep13]

20. It's also a compound question. nt

[rug]

29. It also assumes facts not in evidence.

[Deep13]

52. Only if it's multiple choice.

If asking if any or those things are true, which is how I read it, then it is not assuming facts not in evidence. Granted the person answering may not know.

[FBaggins]

7. Well... That depends on whether or not there is a God.

If there is than no... atheists are none of those things.

[Humanist_Activist]

8. No, and we don't pull the "No True Atheist" card either...

if you want to point out the many faults of others, its best to figure out what faults we are pointing out about your side.

[skepticscott]

10. Where has it ever been claimed that they were

or that they should be simply because of not believing in gods? If you can't even answer that, your question is pretty much just inflammatory bullshit.

Atheists dispute the claim that one cannot be a moral person without the guidance of a supernatural sky daddy or some other religious revelation, and point out that there is often a large gap between the righteous moralizing of many Xstians and their actual actions. Not the same as claiming moral superiority at all.

[elocs]

14. I'd reckon the most morally superior are those who righteously pontificate

about how they do not shop at Walmart along with those who claim they do not watch tv. They clearly come across that way here at DU.

[Humanist_Activist]

15. I don't watch TV, that makes me morally superior!

Actually it doesn't, I'm stuck at work most of the time, thank goodness for netbooks and netflix!

[edhopper]

17. Being an atheist

does not make me morally superior. Being a progressive Democrat does.
(and not shopping at Walmart :-)

[Deep13]

21. Absolutely. They are the "elect" among us.

And vegetarians are at the top of the pyramid. Olive Garden patrons are untouchables. :7

[izquierdista]

16. I would say younger

Everyone is born an atheist. It's only some time after they learn to talk, but before they reach the age of reason that become theists.

[ensho]

18. more mentally sound

prefer reality

[Deep13]

19. Depends on the individual.

I would reiterate my answer to the similar question about Christians. I will say that believing unsubstantiated, improbable or frankly impossible things does not help ones intelligence or mental soundness.

[Humanist_Activist]

22. True, but being an atheist doesn't exempt one from believing in unsubstantiated or impossible...

things. We just lack of belief in a god, doesn't mean our other beliefs are grounded in reality. I've known atheists who believed in ghosts, afterlife(without a god, its..different), tarot cards, palm readings, psychics, etc.

ON EDIT: Indeed, I would consider a Christian who is a skeptic and rational about everything but their faith to be much more mentally sound than any atheist who believes in the nonsense I mentioned above.

[Deep13]

23. That is all true. nt

[CJvR]

24. Yes.

Doing what is right just because it is right is superior to doing what is right in hope of a reward (paradise) or fear of punishment (hell).
Not beliving in unsubstantiated fairytales is smarter than buying whatever flavor of spiritual snake oil is for sale.
Not having an imaginary friend whispering things in your ear is mentally sound.

[Humanist_Activist]

26. atheists just lack a belief in a god, some can believe in a reward and punishment...

system that goes beyond natural observation and the human lifespan, karma could be an example. There are atheists that believe in some fairy tales, different from many religious people, but still as unsubstantiated. In addition, there are quite a few atheists who label themselves spiritual, and have different imaginary friends whispering in their ears.

[cleanhippie]

25. One need not be an atheist to be those things.

But it helps.

:hi:

:rofl:








What a stupid question.

[TexasProgresive]

27. IF you want to believe that you are a mentally superior human being based

upon what you do or do not believe, that's your prerogative. However it may just be self delusion or not.

I have higher than average IQ but nothing to compare with my parents with my mother being a bonefide genius at 160+. Both of them were believers in God. The difference between them and some believers is that they recognized in their brilliance that they didn't know crap about anything. The more you know the more you know that you don't know.

[trotsky]

28. Nope.

Don't hate us cuz we're beautiful.

[rug]

31. Don't worry. There would be no basis for that.

[trotsky]

33. Ah, the trademark Christian love.

You are a great example of your religion, rug. And I really do mean that.

[rug]

35. It was more an aesthetic statement.

[trotsky]

36. I truly feel the love of Christ emanating from you.

You are so full of it.

[rug]

37. I feel something else emanating from you.

[trotsky]

44. What do you think it means to follow Christ, rug?

Do you feel like your behavior glorifies your savior?

[rug]

49. Are you trying to shame me?

:rofl:

Interesting tactic.

:rofl: :rofl:

[darkstar3]

51. I doubt trotsky thinks you have a sense of shame.

After all, he realizes that you defend an organized group of thieves, rapists, and haters.

[rug]

53. I didn't think you believed in mind-reading.

[darkstar3]

54. I don't read minds, just repeated posts.

[rug]

55. Yes he is repetitious.

And predictable. As are you.

[darkstar3]

56. "Captian, the projection, it's OFF THE SCALE!"

[rug]

57. You fooled me. You didn't post a cartoon this time.

[trotsky]

58. It's just that a lot of the discussion lately has been about how True Christians behave.

I think you're helping me make a point. Thank you, rug.

[rug]

64. I think those discussion are in your head, not here.

[trotsky]

66. Right. The list of current topics in R/T is all in my head.

This very thread you started is a copycat of one of them, so drop the coy snark that you always retreat to when you've been cornered with the facts.

[rug]

68. Really? This thread is "about how True Christians behave"?

That is in your head.

[trotsky]

71. Never claimed that. But you DID copycat a thread about the topic.

And this is that copycat. Perhaps you can explain why you started it, then, if not to build on the discussion from the other thread?

Or you can just hurl more snark at me and confirm how True Christians act.

[rug]

72. Actually, no. That thread itself was a snarky attack.

[trotsky]

74. If you think so, then why didn't you take it up with that poster?

Why go back to the second grade and pathetically offer up a "But ma, he did it first!" defense?

Is that Christian behavior?

[rug]

76. Shall I seek your permission to post?

[trotsky]

79. Just wondering why you can't honestly engage someone who disagrees with you.

I've made a sincere go at it here, rug. I thought I would try. You did a great job convincing me that it truly is not worth the effort.

[rug]

81. If you're sincere, I apologize.

[LeftishBrit]

30. No.

I've known both lovely and nasty people among atheists, Christians, Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc.

[ZombieHorde]

32. Yes, yes, I don't know.

Atheists, as an artificial group, are underrepresented in prisons. This could just mean atheist criminals are significantly more intelligent than theist criminals.

Atheists, as an artificial group, have higher IQs than theists.

I don't know if Atheists are more or less likely to suffer from mental illness than theists.

[Jim__]

60. Going to prison is not a reflection of either your morality or your intelligence.

Exhibit #1: Henry David Thoreau. And, sure, Thoreau was probably both more moral and more intelligent than most prisoners, but exhibit #2 would be people in prison for drug possession. I'm confident that you won't argue that, as a group, beer guzzlers are more moral and/or more intelligent than pot smokers.

As to IQs, I'm not at all convinced that IQ is an accurate measure of intelligence. For instance, they do have vocabulary type questions on IQ tests. Those type of questions can only be a reflection of intelligence under very constrained circumstances; constraints that I've never seen respected on IQ tests.

[trotsky]

34. Turnabout is fair play, I think.

So do you think Christians are "morally superior, more intelligent, or more mentally sound compared to" atheists?

[rug]

40. Turnabout is indeed fair play.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x294009

[trotsky]

43. That's why I asked. You didn't respond on that thread.

Tell us how you feel, rug. Be honest. Remember, lies make baby Jesus cry.

[rug]

45. The answer to all questions in both threads is No.

Obviously.

[trotsky]

46. That's not what your church says, though, is it? n/t

[rug]

47. Lol, what cartoons have you been reading?

[trotsky]

59. Just listening to your church's official spokesperson.

But I'm with you. He IS rather cartoonish.

[rug]

63. I was referring to youir view.

You knew that.

[trotsky]

65. Do you deny that your pope has condemned atheism?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/11/30/us-pope-encyclical-idUSL3016839520071130

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/16/pope-benedict-xvi-atheist-extremism

Your church and its leaders despise atheism and believe atheists to be morally inferior. You know that. I am simply establishing that you are veering from your church's official stance if you think atheists are at least as moral as believers. I'm not shocked at that - millions of Catholics believe and do things that would officially get them excommunicated, but they still consider themselves Catholics.

[rug]

67. Lolo, deflecting from the OP again.

To be expected.

[trotsky]

70. Your church has an official position on the question YOU ASKED in your OP.

But I understand why you don't want to talk about it. There's a lot to be ashamed about when it comes to your church.

[rug]

73. Much as you like to yurn all conversations into your agenda, this will not be one of them.

[trotsky]

75. I yearn for no such thing.

You asked a question with your OP. I gave my answer, then I asked you what you thought. You gave your answer. I responded with your church's answer. Would have been a great opportunity for you, as a Catholic, to explain why you are right and your church is wrong. Show some sincere Christian reasoning, treat me with some respect. Act like how a True Christian is supposed to behave.

That I got your standard reaction, flinging snark and insults, should not surprise me after all this time I guess.

[rug]

77. "treat me with some respect"

Oh, the irony.

[trotsky]

78. You responded to me with snark indicating that I, or atheists in general, are ugly.

You followed up by saying that I stink.

Yeah, I'm sorry I didn't show you respect in your thread, rug. My bad.

[rug]

80. I'm so sorry.

I won't call you stinky again.

[darkstar3]

48. Bingo.

[Humanist_Activist]

84. Given your statements in the thread about Anders Breivik, I would assume...

the answer to my question would be yes. Shit, you don't think any white supremacists are Christian or even worship your god.

[Iggo]

38. No. No. Yes.

:evilgrin:

[ZombieHorde]

39. Almost the opposite of my answer.

Funny.

[Iggo]

41. LOL...I saw that. (n/t)

[Odin2005]

42. I've read that the average Atheist has a higher IQ and more education...

...that the average Christian. The only religion in the US that matches Atheism in average IQ and education is Hinduism.

[darkstar3]

50. Moral superiority is subjective idea, generally defined by those who believe they have it.

As for intelligence and soundness of mind, try some statistics.

And your copycat thread fails simply due to the fact that it isn't a copycat.

[deacon_sephiroth]

61. Yes

..........what? I refuse to qualify or quantify this. As a matter of opinion, I looked deep within myself and asked what I thought, and in my experience, the atheists I have know have been far superior in all of the listed categories, compared to the religious types I've known.

[Silent3]

62. On an individual basis, or on average?

I'm not sure how you measure "moral superiority", but statistics show that the less religious a country is, the more likely it is to have a strong social safety net, better care of the poor and the elderly. Hard for some Americans to swallow is the fact that some of the better ranking religious countries in this regard are predominantly Muslim, not Christian. (Then again, some countries like Kuwait might look good in such statistics because they have so many non-citizen workers who don't fair as well as full citizens, who I don't believe are counted in such statistics.)

Atheists generally score fairly high on measures of educational achievement, but not exclusively so -- some specific religious groups do well too in that regard. Educational achievement, however, is not a very pure measure of intelligence, in part, among other reasons, because it's tied up with the economic ability to afford education.

To the extent that I consider belief in God delusional, I consider atheists generally more clear-headed than theists, but that's a narrow area of mental health, and an area where social support for theistic delusions makes it easy to function well in society, deluded or not. For example, I think the idea of considering Kim Jong Il a divine figure is both insane and ludicrous, but while the idea is insane, I can't consider everyone raised in North Korea who falls for that idea insane. That belief would be hard to escape and is strongly reinforced in that environment, so many otherwise quite sane people are likely to succumb to it.

On an individual basis, of course, very little can be said. Individuals are all over the map in all of those areas, be they theistic or atheistic.

[PassingFair]

69. I imagine, as I have no stats on this, that atheists are more prone to depression than theists...

because acceptance is HARD and it can be DEPRESSING.

:hi:

[Silent3]

82. It wouldn't surprise me

A remember hearing about a study a while back that the happiest people tended to be slightly, but not greatly, deluded. Their self-assessments about things like the importance of their jobs, their social popularity, etc., tended to be higher than peer assessments of the same things, they thought they incomes were at a higher percentile than they really were... that sort of thing.

[Taverner]

83. Nope. Next question?