Does Atheism Have a Misogyny Problem?

[rug]

Nighttime shows in Las Vegas feature all sorts of large mammals: lions, tigers, bears, and the rest. So if you had happened to poke your head into The Amazing Meeting, a 1,600-strong skeptic and atheist conference last month, you might be excused for assuming that the giant elephant in the room had escaped from some circus on the Strip. But you’d be wrong. That elephant in the room with us was our own. There’s no pachyderm in Vegas—or on Earth—that big, or that ugly.

This elephant was born in July, when a well-known skeptic blogger named Rebecca Watson, who maintains the “Skepchick” website, complained in a video about something that had happened to her at an atheist conference in Dublin. She had been out with a large group of conference guests at the hotel bar, and finally at four in the morning announced that she was exhausted and headed up to bed. One of the men from the group followed her into the elevator, and said, “Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?” Watson declined and went off to bed as planned.

In her video, she described the encounter as an example of the kind of insensitivity toward women that drives them out of the skeptic and atheist communities. The unnamed Elevator Guy should have known better than to proposition her after she had just announced she wanted to go to bed, she said. In a panel discussion earlier that day—which he had attended—she had even spoken about misogyny in the atheist community and about her distaste for being objectified. It’s understandable, she added, that a woman might feel nervous at being propositioned by a stranger in an enclosed space where she can’t escape if need be.

“Guys, don’t do that,” she urged.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/atheologies/4978/does_atheism_have_a_misogyny_problem/

[Fumesucker]

1. On average probably no more or less than the rest of society..

There's insensitive clods of all creeds and no creed at all.

[Goblinmonger]

2. I'll put any possible atheist misogyny problem

up against the RCC any fucking day. What about you?

[laconicsax]

8. See #7 n/t

[rug]

9. So your answer is Yes?

[Goblinmonger]

18. Notice the word "possible."

I just wanted to point out that my irony meter burst when the main champion of the RCC even has the audacity to mention a misogyny problem in any other organization. Plank, sliver.

[rug]

21. So your answer is No?

[Goblinmonger]

25. I'm not answering your flamebait question. n/t

[rug]

27. I didn't write the article. If you feel you cannot answer it without flames, so be it.

[Goblinmonger]

29. Oh, I see what you did there. n/t

[rug]

31. I doubt it.

[Goblinmonger]

3. Oh, and this is SO beginning of the summer news. n/t

[rug]

15. Byline August 16.

Complain to the editor.

[Goblinmonger]

17. Don't care when the byline is.

This has been being hashed out for the whole summer. Complain to your source about being behind the news cycle.

[rug]

20. The author dfisagrees.

Julia Galef is a New York-based writer and public speaker specializing in science, technology, and rationality. She serves on the board of directors of the New York City Skeptics, co-hosts their official podcast, Rationally Speaking, and co-writes the Rationally Speaking blog. She received her B.A. in statistics from Columbia in 2005.

Her email is widely available.

[laconicsax]

24. You posted about this exact incident on July 6th.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x290476

Did you forget about that, or did you think that the exact same thing happened twice?

[rug]

30. Correct. And I read this commentary August 16. Would you rather ignore it?

[laconicsax]

32. I just find it interesting how you tried to dismiss a story about priests raping nuns because it was

five months old, but jump at the chance to post a summary of something that played out and resolved last month.

[rug]

34. I find it interesting how you try to cover up an issue that is, patently, not played out.

[laconicsax]

35. Are you talking to yourself? n/t

[rug]

36. Considering the plugs in your ears, most likely.

[laconicsax]

38. Oh, the elevator incident and conflict between Dawkins and Watson is ongoing?

I'll e-mail both of them to let them know.

If you're just referring to the fact that there are atheist misogynists and sexists, that's still old news and entirely expected as atheism is a granfalloon and not a religion with creeds or beliefs (I notice you didn't respond to my noting this below).

[rug]

The discussions continue.

Whether you are uncomfortable with it or not.

[laconicsax]

43. I have no discomfort resulting from the subject. I was merely noting a discontinuity on your part.

[backscatter712]

4. No more of a problem than any religion has. In fact, I'd argue much less.

If all that happens at atheist get-togethers is that women get some unwanted advances (that yes, sometimes count as sexual harassment, depending on the incident), that's nothing compared to the rentboys, the adultery, the priests molesting altar boys, the coverups that go all the way to the Pope, etc. etc. etc.

[laconicsax]

7. Let's not play his game.

This OP is bait to get into an atheism vs religion pissing match. Don't take it.

[laconicsax]

5. This again?

Once again, what Dawkins said was blatantly sexist, but not misogynistic. His efforts against FGM and the subjugation of women demonstrates that he isn't a misogynist, but simply blind to his own sexism.

Atheism, being a granfalloon, is bound to include all sorts of people. Not having any creeds or dogmas, sexists, misogynists, racists, homophobes, and even Republicans can be atheists and there's nothing the progressives among us can do about it.

One thing we don't do, is claim that
1) pointing out that an atheist did something awful is an attack on atheism, and
2) claim that the shithead isn't a true atheist.

[Trajan]

6. What rot ....

Guess what .... Sometimes women actually like sex too .... believe it or not ....

[rug]

11. I'll put that down as No.

[cleanhippie]

10. Since when did a LACK OF BELIEF become misogyny?

But Catholic priests DO rape children while the church protects them.


Fail, rug. Epic fail.

[rug]

13. That comment literally makes no sense.

[cleanhippie]

19. If you use your brian, it makes perfect sense. A-theism = LACK OF BELIEF =/= Misogyny.

But Catholic priests DO rape children while the church protects them.

[rug]

22. You're embarassing yourself.

So, is the answer Yes or No?

[cleanhippie]

23. You already know the answer.

Again, use your brian, rug.


Me, I use my brain (you should trade in your brian for one, they work quite well), and it tells me to beware of catholic priests.

[rug]

26. Ok, I'll use my brian, cleanhippie.

I'll just step away from you.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[applegrove]

12. Wow! Some guy wanted sex? At a convention? When has that ever happened?

[rug]

16. Another No.

[applegrove]

33. I get that the woman was really put off by that. I've seen/heard it before. You think people

in the social justice or issues oriented field would all be there for the issues and then some idiot steps forward and makes it all about sex. My point was that bad male behavior can be anywhere. I think it would be more accurate to say that misogynist can be anywhere rather than just in atheist groups. I've spent time at a number of social justice organizations and though the vast majority of men there are sweethearts and feminists I did see one of the worst types of people in the world at one organization.

[rug]

37. "bad male behavior can be anywhere."

Absolutely true.

[provis99]

14. here we go again..

[darkstar3]

42. I probably should have gone with that...

[NMMNG]

28. No

Humans have a misogyny problem.

[struggle4progress]

39. A bit off-topic: I never got any really useful replies to my Lounge thread, earlier this year,

asking for advice about how a fifty-something dude like myself could properly hit on an eighteen year-old at church. I decided DUers are slacking off

That said: I should make clear that I have NEVER EVER hit on anybody at a conference. Some stuff is just beyond the pale

[Warpy]

40. Hardly, since it's not organized in any way whatsoever.

However, a lot of male atheists have a misogyny problem.

[darkstar3]

41. The world has a misogyny problem.

Of course, it's often exacerbated by patriarchy...I wonder where you can find patriarchy today...

[laconicsax]

44. Certainly not where I think you're suggesting...

It's inconceivable!

[trotsky]

46. Right answer. n/t

[LAGC]

45. Didn't we hash this out a couple months ago in the A&A forum?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=263&topic_id=45047&mesg_id=45047

[Goblinmonger]

47. I'm sure rug didn't read that thread.

I mean, it's not like he lurks around that group.

[rug]

50. Lurk? I post in there.

I'm surprised, given you were a one-time moderator, that you refer to a DUer reading DU as a lurker.

Then, given your umbrage at this thread, I'm not surprised you consider that group to be a species of a closed, old boys' club.

[Goblinmonger]

53. You confuse shock with umbrage.

I know what Dawkins said (I actually read a lot about it when it actually happened). It showed me a side of him I didn't like. His "apology" wasn't enough, IMHO. I don't take umbrage at the instance the article talks about. I am shocked that you would have the audacity to post this topic given your apologetics for the RCC. But, hey, denial ain't just a river, right?

The fact that you post in the A/A group and read it frequently does make me uncomfortable. It isn't a group for you. It is a group for us. I don't go into any of the theist groups to read or post. OK, not true actually, I did to into the Catholic one and post once but it was from a link in a different forum and I was stupid enough to not read what forum I was in and apologized for it. But, other than that one time, never been. It isn't my group. It's not for me.

[rug]

54. "It isn't a group for you. It is a group for us."

And there's the irony of your entire position.

Tell you what. When you start a website I wion't visit it. Until then, it's a great big world and you'll just have to deal with it or retreat to a secure cave.

[Goblinmonger]

55. Oh, look at you and your Bin Laden allusion.

"Although anyone is welcome to participate, the DU Atheists and Agnostics Group is a place where atheists and agnostics can engage in frank discussions about the effects of religion on politics, free of debate about the existence of a deity or deities."

Seems like Skinner would agree that A/A is a group for atheists and agnostics and not you.

[rug]

56. :"anyone is welcome to participate"

Ask him.

BTW, the allusion is to Plato.

[MineralMan]

48. Some guy hits on a woman at a convention.

What can this possibly have to do with atheism. Classic post hoc ergo propter hoc logic error. Not even worth discussing.

[rug]

49. Thank you for yout comment.

[LaurenG]

51. I'm going to say probably less than some of the churches I've been to.

People are people, you aren't going to find them perfect no matter where you go. If you want my experience I can tell you that I would much rather hang with atheists than with certain church people who would condemn one to hell while telling women that the men in their lives are in charge of them.

Misogyny in church is rampant, woman can't even be clergy in some religions so I would take this one anecdotal experience and chalk it up to a few inappropriate people. I was actually raped by four good christians when I was sixteen so I don't give this story much validity in the quest to smear atheists. If this was posted just to show that even in atheist circles there are jerks I'm fine with that.

[rug]

52. Horrible story.

What happened to you was far worse than simple misogyny.