Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches advocate 'spiritual spankings' that can last several hou

[cleanhippie]

CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 magazine recently profiled Michael and Debbi Pearl's disciplinary advice, and how a California couple who read their book, To Train Up a Child, lost control and spanked one of their adopted children to death.

Jocelyn Zichterman was interviewed by Cooper, who talked about why her father, a pastor, beat her as a form of discipline. She said that the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches recommend spankings that will "break the will" of a child. Her father is an IFB minister.

These spankings can last anywhere from fifteen minutes to several hours. According to Zichterman, if a child struggles during the punishment, the resistance is seen as willful behavior and beaten out. She said that the Pearls' advice on raising children fits into the IFB philosophy.

While those outside of the IFB view such punishments as abusive, the IFB calls these sessions "spiritual spankings." Zichterman noted that the IFB does not advocate the loss of control that results in a child's death.

http://www.goddiscussion.com/75039/independent-fundamentalist-baptist-churches-advocate-spiritual-spankings-that-can-last-several-hours/

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I think it is safe to say that these people are beating their kids in the name of god. What say you, my liberal christian friends?

[sakabatou]

1. Child abuse for God.

Independent will to be beaten out? WTF?!

[udbcrzy2]

2. It's like murdering your child because you want them to go to a better place,

I think it's evil.

[Brickbat]

3. I think it's sad that there are so many people who are so fearful and weak and unsure of themselves

that someone can tell them "God wants you to hit your child until it stops moving" and they believe it. I'm sure many of them have to squelch their true consciences saying "this isn't right" as they're doing it. Sickening.

[Warpy]

4. One of those wankers killed a seven year old child last week

They beat the children with hoses and other objects. For hours.

Ordinarily, I'm against burning books. That book should be consigned to the biggest bonfire in human history.

Ritualized assault with bible verses is still assault.

[cleanhippie]

5. Yes, they did. But its all in the name of religion, so don't criticize it.

You will be labeled a bigot.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. Not a Christian but I will say that since these people don't advocate beating the child to death...

For disobedience, they are violating their God's commandments.

[ingac70]

7. Spanked to death? Don't they mean beat? n/t

[Kalidurga]

8. Yes, they mean beat...

we have to stop calling it spanking, that sounds cruel, but it minimizes what they are really doing. The seven year old girl that was killed was beaten until her muscles broke down which put too much protein in her blood and her kidneys were unable to process it and this led to kidney failure. This is the kind of beating that you have several stage in which you have a warning to stop before there is a fatality. They must have continued to beat this girl even after she had passed out.

[struggle4progress]

9. This seems to be a muddle-headed analysis. I can't find any "Independent Fundamentalist Baptist"

organization. There are a number of churches in the US that are "independent," in the sense that they are not subject to the discipline of any larger organization; a number are Baptist, since the Baptists have a tradition of "independent" churches; and a number of "independent" churches do teach "fundamentalist" views. What people mean when they describe themselves as "fundamentalist" varies quite a lot, and "fundamentalist" doesn't always mean to insiders what it means to outsiders

So the muddle-headedness here involves fantasizing some definite "Independent Fundamentalist Baptist" organization, to which belong those churches, that describe themselves as "independent" and "fundamentalist" and "Baptist" -- and the evidence is based on not much more than a Facebook page

I suppose it would be interesting if one could find significant connections between (say) Kent Hovind and Michael Pearl and Fred Phelps. Hovind, from Florida, is in jail for tax fraud involving his "creationist ministry." Pearl, in Tennessee, has his own tiny "church" and avoids contact with other churches. Phelps, in Kansas, has his own family "church" and calls himself a Baptist, though hardly any other Baptists seem to rush out to embrace him.

[cleanhippie]

10. Perhaps its nothing more than an identifier, to establish that this is not a "mainstream" Baptist

church?


Sort of like the No True Scotsman, but instead, its the "Independent Scotsman"?

[skepticscott]

12. You didn't look very hard

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist is just another way to refer to Independent Baptist churches. The notion of a "definite Independent Fundamentalist Baptist organization" is just a strawman you created. If you had just Googled (your primary talent) "IFB churches", you would have found out that it is something that people recognize, even if it isn't a formal organization to which independent congregations belong. So either you did, and didn't bother to post the list of links that came up (your secondary talent), or for some reason you decided to blather your apologetics without even finding out what you were talking about.

[dmallind]

14. Wait a minute - You want an ORGANIZATION..........of INDEPENDENTchurches. Think about that again...

It's amazing - people that do anything vicious in the name of God aren't really doing it if they don't belong to a sufficiently large umbrella group? Is that the idea? Or are you just desperately trying to NTS the smaller groups out of the godly fold?

[struggle4progress]

15. Exactly that does makes the analysis muddle-headed: various independent grifters

and attention-whores are regarded as part of some organized IFB: "the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches recommend" and "those outside of the IFB" and "the IFB calls these" and "the IFB does not advocate" &c&c (from the August article linked by the OP) -- and similarly "The US-based Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) churches" and "the IFB as a cult" &c&c (from the April article to which the August article, linked by the OP, links)

The April article tries, sloppily, to view Honvind and Pearl and Phelps and others as parts of some US-based cult. As I indicated (in my prior post, to which you replied), there seems little ground for viewing Honvind and Pearl and Phelps as part of a unified organization -- but the April article, that the August article (that the OP points to) points to, advances exactly that unfounded view

[rrneck]

11. They aren't "real" christians

unless they vote in a bloc or buy lotsa Bibles and shit.

[LeftishBrit]

13. I am reminded of the Milgram experiments...

which showed that over 60% of people will be prepared to inflict potentially fatal damage on another person if commanded by an authority figure.

For many, God is the ultimate authority figure, so if you are convinced that God has commanded you to inflict injury or even death on others, you are more likely to do so. It doesn't have to be God, however; many have killed or injured in the name of a dictator, or a military commander, or 'patriotism', or a parent or other family member, or a gang leader, etc.

The Milgram experiments involved willingness to inflict severe or even fatal electric shocks on a *stranger*. It would seem harder to get someone to attack their own child than a stranger, and obviously it is not the case that a *majority * would do the former. But some people will. And children who have been brought up in this fashion are often more ready to inflict the same on their own children, in the name both of God and 'my parents did this to me so it must be right!'

Any social system, whether it involves God or not, that emphasizes absolute and unquestioning obedience to any authority is likely to be morally corrupting; this being one example.