Women in the "Atheist Movement."

[rug]

For many weeks now, I've been hesitant to comment on what has become known as "Elevatorgate." If you've been under a rock, here's the synopsis. Atheist blogger and feminist Rebecca Watson was propositioned in an elevator by a drunk guy late at night after a speaking gig at a conference. "Elevator Guy" politely (but awkwardly) asked her if she'd like to have coffee in his room. Rebecca took umbrage. Rebecca made a video.

In the weeks that have followed, Elevatorgate has become the biggest scandal in atheism since... well... I don't know. But it's been a huge deal. Men and women on both sides of the fence have lined up, swords drawn. The more radical wing of "atheist feminists" threatened to boycott Richard Dawkins -- THE Richard Dawkins -- because he used a little snarky language while admitting he didn't understand why the whole thing was a big deal. The more "mainstream" wing of female atheists have responded with more than snark while informing Rebecca Watson that her brand of feminism does not represent them or their views. It's just been ugly, and painful to watch

One of the reasons I've waited this long to mention Elevatorgate is that I don't want to comment on Elevatorgate. I honestly don't believe there's anything to be said that hasn't been said ad nauseum. Those who side with Rebecca Watson, et al., and those who oppose them are unlikely to change their mind at this point, and that's really just all there is to it.

Still, Elevatorgate has bothered me on a deep level, and I've found myself wanting to say something constructive about women in the atheist movement. It pains me to see what religion does to women, and now that the dust in the elevator shaft is settling, we seem no closer to the original question. If anyone happens to remember, we used to be very interested in figuring out how to attract women to the atheist movement, and encourage them to be actively and openly involved in secular causes. Like practically every other person in the "atheist movement," I'd like to see more women at conferences, more women on podiums, and more women getting involved in any way they would like. But what is there for this one male atheist to say that hasn't been said? The answer came to me last week when I was helping a friend data-mine for a school project.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Women in the "Atheist Movement." - Atlanta atheism | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-atlanta/women-the-atheist-movement#ixzz1WprC6NWV

[Brickbat]

1. Yeah, just because one is free of religion does not mean one is free of the internalized sexism,

racism and other issues going on in this world. "Listen to women" should be a mantra in any movement.

[Curmudgeoness]

2. I am a woman, I am an atheist, and I just don't care to be involved

in any "organized" movement, religion or anti-religion. When you start to gather as a group, you begin to get all the individual ideas and prejudices. I think that religion or atheism is a very personal thing, and organizing it is difficult unless you are willing to produce a scary scenario for those who do not agree with you or toe the line. Well, good luck with that with atheists, since the whole concept is rebellious.

[niete]

10. re

"organizing it is difficult unless you are willing to produce a scary scenario for those who do not agree with you or toe the line"

a la supporters of Rebecca Watson.

[Curmudgeoness]

16. Not what I had in mind, but very appropriate. nt

[laconicsax]

3. Are you chafing yet?

This thing has shined a light on two things:

1) Sexism is found in non-religious circles.
2) There seem to be those who, while openly supporting a horribly misogynistic organization, love to use this incident as an opportunity to discuss the prevalence and problem of sexism.

[darkstar3]

6. It's ad hom tu quoque.

"Sure, we suck, but look at this one instance of someone on your side sucking! You can't say anything about me now."

And we know that's true because he has confessed that he doesn't think atheism or sexism has anything to do with religion. It's yet another "shut up" gambit.

[mwrguy]

4. Dawkins is a creepy, patronizing misogynist

We can do better than that.

[niete]

11. the problem

Aaand, statements like that are why this thing got all out of hand.

[spirit of wine]

5. I do not see the correlation

There is no there there, especially here.

What does atheism have to do with a failed pick-up? At least, initially. "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."-s.k.

[niete]

9. Agreed

Anything can be construed as misogyny if you try hard enough. I believe there are classes in college just for that; 'Women Studies' I think they are called.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. the atheist 'movement' is not an organized movement

however if one wishes to compare sexism within those who self identify as atheist/agnostic to sexism within almost every organized major religion on the planet, I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that atheists come out pretty well, despite Dawkin's idiotic remarks.

[niete]

8. Bleh, not again

Like everyone on Rebecca Watson’s side you are missing the point.

For about the previous two month Rebecca had been on a role complaining about sexism in the atheist community. She went to conferences and steered the conversation all the time to how horrible the atheist men were and never gave any real evidence (she cited a few emails, but they were mostly from religious trolls). Time and time again she asserted that atheist conferences were hell for women, like some kind of sexist gulag, never really giving other evidence, just claiming that other unnamed women agreed with her (even when other women disagreed with her about how terrible the atheist dudes were, she simple dismissed them out of hand).

So people were very hungry for an actual example of the actual “misogyny” Rebecca kept ranting about so they could consider and debate the situation, but when if finally came it was utterly pathetic (this elevator pickup thing). Of course she got jumped all over, rightly so.

[sudopod]

23. Godless manly bastard here.

Ever actually been to a skeptic conference? Spend much time around a group of, say, male engineers?

This really is an issue, but not because we're talking about atheists. Misogynistic forever-alones behaving poorly around women is a society-wide problem which one would hope that men in the skeptic movement would understand, and we are naturally disappointed when this does not come to pass. After all, it takes a bit of introspection and a willingness to come to hard conclusions to decide that there is no One out there waiting for us with open arms at the end of time, along with all the attendant consequences of that decision. How much greater of a leap is it for someone to understand that maybe it isn't classy to proposition a stranger for sex at 4:30 am in an elevator on the day she gave a public lecture about how nice it would be if people would not do things like that?

but alas, earwax.

[deacon_sephiroth]

24. agreed, HARDLY isolated to Aethism

I'm in the military..... do you have ANY IDEA what women have to put up with DAILY in this line of work? I see it all the time and my daughter wants to enlist... I'm terrifyed and I speak to her about it every day.

[NMMNG]

12. I drove about 4 miles over the speed limit on my way home from work

I'm an atheist and I did something bad.

Now that you have a new "bad atheist" story will you stop beating this "elevatorgate" dead horse?

[laconicsax]

13. You bad atheist, you!

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

15. I know

I'll have to turn in my rubber chicken for bringing such shame on the Atheist Movement.

[laconicsax]

17. No, keep it. It's been dirtied by association.

[no_hypocrisy]

14. The Freedom From Religion Foundation was founded by Anne Gaylor and her daughter, Annie Laurie

Gaylor in the Seventies. They've been leaders in the freethought movement for nearly four decades. Margaret Downing has been active in fighting discrimination against atheists for more than two decades. Ellen Johnson was the president of American Atheists for a long time as well.

Plenty of women leaders in the movement.

[Warpy]

18. You need to treat women at atheist meetings

as though you are on the job. Women at those meetings are not there to be picked up, not even if they leave the meeting with a group to continue the discussion at a restaurant or even a bar.

Getting picked up is not why we are there.

Respect that and we'll get along just fine.

[Odin2005]

19. Yes, there are sexist asshole atheists just like there are sexist asshole Christians, Jews, Muslims,

...Hindus, Buddhists, etc. How the hell is this news?

[frogmarch]

20. The only predatory atheist

I ever met was a guy I was in high school with. I knew he was an atheist because his nickname was George the Atheist. Some of the girls he’d dated called him George the Octopus. He asked me on a date once, and to be funny he arrived at my door wearing an octopus costume. My mom told him to go home, not because he was an atheist but because he was an octopus.

When I was 17, I started out on a blind double date with a college theology student (who, I recently found out, is now a Catholic priest in the town where I live). Less than a minute after he picked me up and we were together in the back seat of his friend’s car, he tried to rape me. At least George the Atheist was honest about his intentions and wore an octopus costume.

Anyone can be a sexist. Religion need have nothing to do with it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. The article is an interesting attempt to quantify what interests women atheists

as best as one person can do without attempting scientific research. It's interesting that there's a lot about family and children. And the suggestion that atheist conferences could therefore do with more childcare is interesting, in the light of the Richard Dawkins Foundation providing the subsidised chidlcare at the upcoming Texas Freethought Convention: http://heathen-hub.com/blog.php?bt=6385

So, for all the 'misogynist' names hurled at Dawkins, he seems to have some understanding of what might encourage more women to attend conferences.

[Boojatta]

22. The question remains:

Was it primarily religious men or primarily atheist men who were to blame for the low numeric value of the kisses received by Susan Boyle prior to her appearance on "Britain's Got Talent"?