How do people who profess Christianity defend the death penalty?

[FLAprogressive]

How can they defend the possibility (and the numerous actual cases) of someone being innocently put to death? Doesn't God, in their view, ultimately decide who dies and for what reason?

[Webster Green]

1. They think Christianity is served up cafeteria style.

You just go through the teachings of Jesus, and take what you like.

[tblue]

17. Or like a menu in a Chinese menu.

One from Column A

Two from Column B

With 6 you get eggroll

[greyl]

2. There's a lot of justified killing in the Bible, including of "innocents".

That might have a little to do with it for some people.

[WCGreen]

5. Outside of "Revelations" their ain't much advocacy for violence

of any kind in the New Testament.

[greyl]

13. So there's SOME advocacy for violence then? Please define "not much". nt

edit to add: I didn't realize Christians were now referring to a Bible lacking the Old Testament, btw.

[WCGreen]

65. I'm not a Christian.....

But I understand the separation.

From what I gather, the idea of a new covenant was manifested in Jesus. He was breaking with the old and ushering the new.

Read the sermon on the mount.

The right wing Christians love the retribution and violence of the old testament. They sprinkle just enough Jesus to make it look as he is on their side and jump right on to Revelations.

[trotsky]

84. Actually Jesus said some other interesting things.

Like coming to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

He spoke of slaying his enemies, and tormenting them forever.

The New Testament is not exactly a "new covenant.". There's plenty of the old one left.

[Iggo]

3. They say 'eye-for-an-eye' a lot. (n/t)

[WCGreen]

8. That is old Testament....

The covenant set by the coming of Jesus made a break from the customs of the old.

Just read the sermon on the mount and you can get a pretty good idea about what Christianity was intended to be.

[Iggo]

37. But that wasn't the question.

And maybe I'm misunderstandng the use of "profess" here, but I thought the question was basically "How do people who claim to be Christian defend the death penalty", and I answered with what has happened in my real life experience: They cling to "eye-for-an-eye". Leviticus is old testament, too. But they have no problem trotting that one out when it's time to hate gay people. They seem to miss the part where Jesus uses "turn the other cheek" in direct refutation of "eye-for-an-eye". But they do that a lot. If Christians didn't ignore Christ so much, the world might be a better place.

(edit: i hate typos)

[WCGreen]

51. My feelings exactly.

[TheMadMonk]

4. Same way they defend homophobia, bigotry and misogyny.

It's in the Old Testament.

[Chan790]

9. So is execution for wearing mixed fabrics...

I'd wager they'd raise holy hell if someone shot up a Walmart for selling poly-cotton blends.

[TheMadMonk]

49. I did not make any observation as to consistency.

Apparently all the crap about the OT being obsolete from Jesus actually means pick and choose what suits.

[eShirl]

6. Based on years of observation, I think their version of the Bible omits the gospels.

[BootinUp]

7. The Old Testament shall be their guide. nt

[RockaFowler]

66. Then why aren't Jews this hypocritical??

You know I only know of the Bible as what the rest of you call the Old Testament. It was never supposed to be true stories. It was always supposed to be fables and stories to tell you how to live your life better. People really basterdize parts that they like, but omit those that completely are against their way of living.

[WinkyDink]

72. That is not what Christianity is about. Sorry.

It's called "The New Testament." You know; where CHRIST is.

[Rex]

10. They are lying?

Jesus has nothing to do with what they believe in.

[Brigid]

11. I do not know how they can defend it.

They ought to take a good look at a crucifix sometime. It depicts the execution of an innocent man.

[TeamsterDem]

12. When it's someone else it's "an eye for an eye." When it's them it's "turn the other cheek."

They pick and choose between God 1.0 and 2.0 depending on when and where it suits them

[sabrina 1]

14. George Bush was asked that question by, of all people, Bill O'Reilly.

BOR is against the DP. So, in an interview with Bush in the first presidential campaign, he asked him that question. I'll try to reconstruct the conversation as closely as I can. I remember being dumb-founded by this person who was trying to become president.

BOR: So, Gov. Bush, who would you say is your hero?

Dubya: (deep thought for a sec then ...) Well, Bill, my hero is Jesus Christ.

Bor: Really? Interesting. But you are a proponent of the DP. What do you think Jesus would say about that? I mean Jesus was a victim of the DP himself? He was against killing.

Dubya: (stumped temporarily, then lightbulb lights up over his head)Well Bill, you have to kill them to stop the killing! (big satisfied grin on his face)

There must be some logic in that, at least Bush thought there was, but even BOR looked speechless. And yet, he supported him. All because he had an R after his name.

[LAGC]

15. That's because Bill O'Reilly is Catholic.

One thing I will give Catholics credit for, is they are by-and-large mostly against the Death Penalty, even if many of their other beliefs are backward and out-of-whack. Even the Pope came out in defense of Troy Davis, which surprised me.

[AngryOldDem]

23. There is that.

However, some apply a very gross double standard when they compare the death penalty to abortion, and those who do so ignore the very catechism of the Church that they always cite so vigorously when it comes to the issue of abortion. The Church is very clear on how it views both issues. To quote the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, life is a seamless garment from birth to death. No distinctions or exceptions should be made -- all life is sacred.

And the Pope **always** will speak out against the death penalty.

[polmaven]

39. I note he said

from birth to death...not conception to death. I had not heard that quote before...thank you for that.

[Odin2005]

43. Yeah, despite their social issue backwardness they are very pro-Social Justice.

Especially the rank and file clergy.

[d_r]

16. John 8

New International Version (NIV)
John 8

1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

[Diclotican]

18. FLAprogressive

FLAprogressive

I don't support the death penalty, never did, wil never do..

I belive all human, to be posible of doing it right, even tho we might have to keep some in prison for the rest of their natural life. As they are a danger to themselfs, and to everyone else on the outside.. But I do not support the death penalty..

Diclotican

[The Straight Story]

19. People ask why those on the left condemn it but are ok with abortion (nt)

[MADem]

20. There's a ton of Death Penalty in the Bible.

And then there's that eye for an eye thing that others have brought up....

As for God making the decisions, many people like to think of themselves as "His instrument."

Full of themselves, they are...

[NaturalHigh]

21. Maybe there is another question to be asked as well.

How many people are against the death penalty because of their faith? That's a question that I dare say most Christian-bashers won't ask.

BTW - I'm in no way implying that your post is Christian-bashing. It's a very good question.

[AngryOldDem]

22. Short answer: Old Testament over New Testament. n/t

[Militant_Liberal]

24. The exact same way they justify

Just about everything they do, they pick and choose what parts of their religious books they like while ignoring the parts they don’t like.
Most people call it Hypocrisy.

This nation would have been better off if it had been established as a religion free nation.

[melm00se]

25. Papacy and the death penalty

"May the death penalty, an unworthy punishment still used in some countries, be abolished throughout the world." - John Paul II (Prayer at the Papal Mass at Regina Coeli Prison in Rome, July 9, 2000).

"A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary." - John Paul II(Homily at the Papal Mass in the Trans World Dome, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999).

"that there no longer be recourse to capital punishment, given that states today have the means to efficaciously control crime, without definitively taking away an offender's possibility to redeem himself." - John Paul II

"It cannot be overemphasized that the right to life must be recognized in all its fullness,...take into account the high value that a human being has at every moment of existence...In this context, I joyfully welcome the initiative by which Mexico abolished the death penalty in 2005, and the recent measures adopted by some Mexican states to protect human life from its beginnings." - Pope Benedict XVI

[no_hypocrisy]

26. Depends upon the type of Jesus being worshipped.

I've noticed that there are at least two distinct personnas of Jesus within Christianity. Not necessarily the dichotomy between Catholicism and Protestantism. But there's Jesus who is forgiving, loving, benevolent. And then there's Jesus, the avenger who punishes sins. Depending on the particular church, the Bible is interpreted around which particular Jesus is chosen as the model for the parishoners.

That's why there are Christians who either cry for Troy Davis and those who celebrate his death.

[jberryhill]

27. Christianity would not exist without it

Haven't you noticed the execution device prominently displayed in churches, jewelry, etc.

[hifiguy]

57. Lenny Bruce got it right back in the 1960s:

"If Jesus had been executed today, all the kids in Catholic schools would be wearing little electric chairs around their neck."

[Township75]

28. The same way people here do. How much outrage is there over the TX execution last night?

?

[EstimatedProphet]

34. There's a really good reason there's outrage over the one and not the other

Don't even try to compare the two. Troy Davis was convicted without any material evidence, has had 7 of the 9 witnesses recant, 2 of the witnesses were not even eyewitnesses but were repeating hearsay, and has maintained his innocence from the outset. Russell Brewer has said openly that he did it and would do it again. There was doubt in the Davis case, there was no doubt in the Brewer case. Given that, I am still opposed to the death penalty.

[Township75]

36. Thanks for the speech. That confirms my original answer.

Christians can defend the death penalty for SOME people based on circumstances, much like people at DU can be outraged by the death penalty from SOME people based on circumstances. DOn't know why you had to give the speech, but thanks anyway.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

56. I don't defend the death penalty under any circumstances

When it's somebody like Russell Brewer or Timothy McVeigh or Ted Bundy I'm not as upset to see it carried out, but I still disapprove of it and think it should be abolished. The fact that I have no sympathy for Russell Brewer doesn't change my stance on the death penalty in general.

[GeorgeGist]

29. Well for one thing ...

the execution of Jesus wasn't an act of God. But Christians profess it was necessary to save their soul.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. Because they have been Misled by Satan

(I don't believe in Satan BTW)

If you believe in fundamentalist Christianity, then you have to believe that Satan's mission is to destroy Christianity, since Satan hates mankind and Christ died to save mankind. So, what better way to destroy Christianity than to imitate it and corrupt it from within? Dominionism is at its base anti-Christian. Christ believed and preached evangelism and witnessing a Christian's beliefs to other people. He would have in no way believed that Christians should take over the government and force Christianity on people - “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” meant giving up the worldly aspects and giving yourself over to God.

[GoCubsGo]

31. The same way they condemn welfare recipients....

Just peg them as less-than-human, and deserving of their fate, and voila!, absolution from having to actually adhering to the beliefs they profess to having.

[Bandit]

32. They have two Gods so get confused often

They have the God of the Old Testiment who stated himself that he was a jealous God and one that believes an eye for an eye, and then they have Jesus as their God from the New Testiment. A New Testiment which makes their God New and Improved and a God of Peace and Love and turn the other cheek.. They often get quite confused as the two Gods are very different from one another...

[WinkyDink]

74. Speak for yourself.

[undeterred]

33. Sister Helen Prejean, as portrayed by Susan Sarandon in Dead Man Walking

is against the death penalty. A person never stops being a child of God, and we are more than what we do on the worst day of our lives.

But she has compassion for the victims of the crime and wrestles with the whole issue from a Christian perspective in her book (Dead Man Walking), which is really excellent.

[Chisox08]

35. Because they love the fetus but hate the child

To them all life is precious until it is born. After that they hate you if you are not exactly like them.

[Zoeisright]

38. Hypocrisy.

Most "Christians" don't know the meaning of the word "compassion". Judging others and hating is their meat.

[kctim]

41. The same way they defend abortion

[Odin2005]

42. "Kill them all and let God sort it out!"

[Rob H.]

82. Now, now...

Apparently it's only we atheists here on DU who advocate that sort of thing. :eyes:

(Edited for grammar.)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. As a Christian, I do find it ironic.

The religion is based on an innocent man who was wrongfully put to death. And that innocent man being one who preached mercy and compassion for the guilty.

[loyalsister]

45. There were Christians who supported the confederacy

As a matter of fact the KKK started as a Christian organization. People can interpret a text any way they want to suit an agenda. It's a terrible tragedy that it happens often and in support of damaging agendas.

[backscatter712]

46. Because they're Pro-Life!

:dunce:

[Ben Gay]

47. Is that a trick question? If it weren't for the DP there wouldn't BE a xian religion.

Heck, if Jebus had been executed a century ago, people would be wearing little bitty electric chairs around their necks...
:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

48. I would imagine that regardless of one's religion...

I would imagine that regardless of one's religion, world-view, philosophies, etc., we are quite adept at forcing our individual tenets into a belief system rather than asking if the belief system allows or denies that particular thing.

[krabigirl]

50. Christianity has a long history of supporting death as a penalty. I dont expect that to change.

Jesus seemed like he would have been loving and cool, but so many christians seem quite the opposite.

[Arugula Latte]

52. Well, it's not like logic or reason or facts play much of a role in any religion. nt

[WhoIsNumberNone]

53. Ask a witch.

See, if they kill you and you're actually innocent, you'll just get to Heaven sooner (assuming you were a good christian to begin with). So they're really doing you a favor when they kill you for nothing.

[hifiguy]

54. Easy. The blood-soaked "god" of the Old Testament

was very much in to slaughtering the innocents by the thousands. Especially if they "worshiped" the wrong "god".

[WinkyDink]

68. The question was about Christianity, as in, New Testament. As in, superceding the Old.

So if you're going to go high dudgeon, at least be accurate.

[deutsey]

55. As Bill Hicks observed: You think when Jesus comes back

he's gonna want to see a cross?

[WinkyDink]

69. Oh, larf larf! As if a joke is brilliant analysis.

[deutsey]

77. Don't seem to recall saying it was a "brilliant analysis"

but what the fuck ever.

Ease up on the caffeine.

[kenny blankenship]

58. The DP was good enough for Jesus?

You think you're better than Jesus?

[isuphighyeah]

59. Jesus was crucified for their sins. n/t

[Javaman]

60. If you are zygote you need saving, if you are "evil" you need to die to be saved.

for the rest of the living, you're fucked.

[WinkyDink]

71. Not every Christian sect is anti-choice.

[Jakes Progress]

61. They are not Christians.

[cleanhippie]

79. Sure they are.

Anyone who believes Jesus died for their sins is, by definition, a Christian.


How can they not be Christian?

[Jakes Progress]

83. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Humanist_Activist]

86. Really? How are they not Christians?

Note, you are calling at least half of the Christians in the United States as non-Christian, I would say you would have to justify that statement.

[cleanhippie]

90. He won't because he can't.

You know it, I know it, and he knows it.

[Humanist_Activist]

93. When you get right down to it, there is only one true Christian, and that would be...

themselves, everyone else falls short of being a "true Christian".

[Jakes Progress]

95. He did because he can.

See post 94.

[cleanhippie]

101. If post #94 is your response, you should have just not repsonded at all.

You would have been better off. Now, you have shown everyone reading this sub-thread, that you REALLY have no idea what you are talking about.

[Jakes Progress]

106. Now read post 105. At least I responded to the post

instead of just doing the equivalent of "nyah nyah".

Peddle your prejudice elsewhere.

[cleanhippie]

113. You seem to be suffering from some type of delusion, as nothing of the sort has happened.

You have not responded with anything even resembling reality, I have not responded with anything even resembling "nyah nyah".


In order to be a christian, one must do nothing more than believe that jesus died for your sins. Thats it.


Maybe in YOUR mind, someone needs to perform certain actions (or NOT perform certain actions), but if you generate a checklist of what one must and must not do in order to be a christian, you have just excluded everyone in the world, for those who self0identify as christian will have their OWN list of what it means to be a christian.


Sheesh, man. Its not that hard to understand.

Peddle your ignorance elsewhere.

[Jakes Progress]

115. See. You don't know what a Christian is.

Sheesh, man. It's not that hard to understand. Your prejudice is feeding your ignorance.

Maybe in your mind Christianity is that simple. By your definition, one could be a Democrat just by saying one was a Democrat. Maybe to you that is so. It is not to real Democrats. And your simplistic and ignorant definition of Christianity is not to a real Christian.

It is simple. You just don't understand.

[darkstar3]

118. Post the def. Let's see what happens.

[Jakes Progress]

120. Ah. Another enlightened one.

A Christian live the precepts of Christianity. To the degree that they fall short of that, they fall short of Christianity.

It ain't a club, bub.

[laconicsax]

121. Good luck defining the "precepts of Christianity."

There's little consistency in the source material.

[Jakes Progress]

124. No problem.

I don't think you are very familiar with the source material.

[laconicsax]

125. On the contrary.

Name your precepts.

[Jakes Progress]

133. Tain't hard.

Live according to the teachings of Jesus. I don't do that very well. I admire the teachings. I think that if everyone behaved that way - you know, forgive people, help the poor, stuff like that - the world would be a better place. But just as some people call themselves Democrats but obviously aren't because they support busting unions or supporting corporations over people, there are people who call themselves Christian but do things like celebrate death. Why be so hard nosed? What is the splinter that irks you so?

[Humanist_Activist]

136. Do you condemn others to hell? Curse fig trees? Pluck out your own eyes for looking at someone's...

ass? Hate your parents? I could go on, all these things Jesus said or did, according to the Gospels.

Jesus was, assuming he existed, a product of his time, trying to emulate a 1st century person's life and attempting to apply it to modern life is just foolhardy.

[Jakes Progress]

139. Got you some great misinformation there.

Did you get that from a pamphlet at the convention for grumpy people?

Well. You have proven my point quite well. You either are deliberately mis-stating my views or you simply don't have the objective ability to think logically here. Peace on you.

[Humanist_Activist]

141. The Bible is a bit longer than a pamphlet, also I never mentioned your views...

simply those present in the Bible and asking you what your views are, please don't confuse the two. You are the one claiming things about me without evidence, remember that.

[Jakes Progress]

144. Bless you. Gentle soul.

Or you could quote the lines where Jesus tell people to kill others and do all the "horrid" things that you suggest.

In you little world, Jesus of Nazareth was a mean little man who told people to do bad things. Is that it? And you know more about this than two thousand years of scholars on the bible? Hmmm. Is that you, god?

[Jakes Progress]

94. Yes.

I am calling half of the people who call themselves Christian non-Christian.

I also call people who put a D beside their name and vote to bash union, cut taxes for the rich, raise taxes on the poor, and coddle corporations over people non Democrats.

It's not that hard to understand. Lots of people profess things they don't live. Doctors who smoke. Wife-swapping ministers. Crooked cops. Teachers who vote republican.

How is that hard to understand?

[Humanist_Activist]

96. Because Christianity isn't a political party with a concise party platform....

Its a religion, or I should say a group of religions with similar beliefs about the divinity and life of one Jesus Christ. Outside of that, they can pretty much believe anything they want, because their Bible is so contradictory and inconsistent that anything goes. In fact, pro-death penalty Christians follow the Bible more closely than those who oppose the death penalty.

[Jakes Progress]

105. Oh ye of little knowledge.

Why don't you just say you don't like Christians? You can do that you know. It would be better than using such a silly argument. You really want to claim that the Democratic party is a tightly regulated organization with a single set of beliefs and rules? Really? You don't find the pronouncements of various Democratic leaders to be "contradictory and inconsistent"?

Look. I don't practice a religion either. But I know that Christianity has a core set of beliefs and expected behaviors, and that the characters who cheer a death sentence don't have those beliefs nor do they display that behavior. By your argument, Democrats would need to believe that the war should be continued and that bankers should be prized over the poor because their leader does.

Christian precepts come from the new testament and center around the teachings of the historic figure of Jesus of Nasareth. That is why Bill Mahrer was so on target when he chastised those who cheered the death of bin laden. He knew that celebrating killing was not one of the precepts of the Christian religion. He said that he could celebrate, but that if they wanted to call themselves Christian, they were being hypocritical.

[Humanist_Activist]

128. How can I say I don't like Christians, my girlfriend is nominally one, my parents as well...

good luck with that lie.

My problem is with Christian BELIEFS, why is it so hard for so many people to understand this, Christianity, as a religion, is self contradictory, and is a good "sticks on the wall" religion, there are no "expected behaviors" within Christianity that forbid people from believing certain things, or acting a certain way. You are confusing the word "Christian" with the word "Good" they are not synonyms.

[Jakes Progress]

147. You are confused.

Maybe conflicted.

Whichever, you come up with statements that don't hold true. You constantly confuse religion an denomination and lump the idea of Christian all together. Something about that word really has you going.

So you really like this girlfriend who condemns people to hell and curses fig trees (poor little trees) and puts out people's eye's for copping a look at her ass, and hates here parents? Oh. And your Christian parents. You must hate them for doing all those things. But then you say that Jesus said to hate your parents, so does that make you Christian? But then if you aren't disgusted with your girlfriend and parents, then those thing must be okay. But then you intimated that those were bad and that was why is was bad to be Christian. Golly I guess you really are conflicted.

(Point of order: Please provide the scriptural links to where Jesus made it a part of faith to do these horrible things. I mean, I feel so bad for all the cursed fig trees.)

[cleanhippie]

89. Well then explain how I am wrong. But we both know you can't.

But I'm sure you won't even try.

[Humanist_Activist]

99. Oh he tried, he also failed, but at least he tried. n/t

[cleanhippie]

102. He should have just quit while he was behind. If that was an attempt to define what a christian is,

he not only failed, but he showed all of DU just how ignorant he is on this subject.

[Jakes Progress]

108. Speaking of ignorance, why don't you define a Christian then.

[cleanhippie]

114. I already did. Someone who believes jesus died for their sins. Thats it. There is nothing more.

Why don't you go over to one of the religion & spirituality christian groups and ask those that do claim to be christian just what it means to be a christian, instead of spewing your ignorance all over this thread.

[Jakes Progress]

116. No. You just proved that you don't know what a Christian is. There is more.

Are you a Christian? Do you have a degree in theology? How about just simple logic and understanding? You can't just spout ignorance and expect those who know better to go along with you.

I have a loose affiliation with religion, but I know more than you. But then I don't mind if people practice a religion. You seem to harbor a deep anger about it. That's okay, and I'm sorry for whatever psychological damage you have been dealt that created your problems with understanding and acceptance. If I were the religious type, I would say God bless you. But as it is, I just have to let it go that you have a mental block on the subject. Odd. I have rarely encountered the kind of fevered proselytizing from religious types that I get from the atheists and agnostics.

[darkstar3]

117. Rather than throwing out two paragraphs of ad hom BS,

why not post what you think is the real definition of Christianity? Why not OP it as a question of "Is this what is meant by Christianity" and see how many people here who calls themselves Christian disagree with you?

[Jakes Progress]

122. Rather than jump in with BS prejudice

read post 120.

Yes, yes. I know it won't do any good, but one can always hope that an open mind will trump petty prejudice.

[darkstar3]

126. #120 in no way answers the question. You have made a general statement, not a definition.

You must present these precepts if you intend for this to approach the concept of a definition.

You seem not to understand that this whole debate has been had on this board before:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x223070

If you read that thread, you'll find there is no accepted definition for Christian.

[Jakes Progress]

131. Why do you argue against your own premise?

Is it so important that you "win" an argument with me, that you cast aside the whole premise of the sub-thread?

Golly. Get a life.

[darkstar3]

146. I think you're having trouble following the conversation.

My premise here has been clear and solid since I started responding to you: There is no such thing as a clear definition of Christianity. I asked you to post it, in response to your claim of its existence, because I knew that you could not, and hoped that it would show you how clearly fallacious is your argument.

You don't get to define what "Christian" means. Read the thread I linked to, and you'll find that no one can. There's no such thing as a "true Christian", there are only people who believe that they are Christian.

[Jakes Progress]

107. Care you try to say why it was a failure?

How about a little common sense and rationality rather than just airing your collective lack of understanding and prejudice?

[Humanist_Activist]

129. What prejudice? You seem to confuse criticism of Christianity with criticism of people...

who happen to be Christians. There's no prejudice involved. You failed to point out who are the "Real Christians", I was pointing out that, given the source material, its impossible to define Christians beyond the most general of terms about their faith.

Christians are anyone who claims to believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, died for humanity's sins, rose again, and was and is the messiah. Outside of this, the rest varies, greatly.

Indeed, it is you who is prejudiced, judging who is or is not a Christian by standards that you created.

[Jakes Progress]

109. How many times? We both know you aren't going to listen.

But you can read post 105.

[Iggo]

110. Who had 61 in the NTS pool? (n/t)

[Taverner]

62. Christianity is not compatible with the Death Penalty

Having said that, I am an Ex-Christian Atheist, who is against the Death Penalty

Not because I feel bad for the condemned but:

- What if the jury was wrong?

- What good does the death penalty do?

- What does this tell our children about right and wrong?

[bobthedrummer]

63. We that profess Christianity know that there is eternal life-Jesus Christ was truly innocent

and He overcame Death for all that are His.

Since my gift of faith informs that there is eternal life (an abstraction for many that are spiritually awake-there are no languages to express this concept, it's anathema to materialists and human secularism) and that there are people committing crimes that carry the death penalty I don't have a problem with carrying it out when all evidence/or confession identify the perpetrator(s).

This was not the case, imo, with Troy Davis.

That's just me-I try to forgive and love my enemies, sure seems like there's a lot of them killing others today.

[David Sky]

119. Using THAT knowledge, one could justify (and people often have justified)...

killing anyone, killing your own family, your own children.

I am reminded of the woman in Texas who did just that. She thought she was saving them from Satan.

No one can "know" that life is eternal, one can choose to believe that, one can WANT to believe that. However, there is no "knowledge" of eternal life, there is a belief system that enables one to think that, completely without a scintilla of tangible proof.

No, I cannot accept that any Christian or any member of any religion has some sort of special "knowledge" of God or a "savior" who died for the sins of every man, not without verifiable proof, not simply because they SAY that they have "been given this knowledge". That kind of thought pattern leads to self-delusion, and can lead to making insane, immoral, unethical thoughts sound sane.

It's a cop out; a refusal to look at the issue, an excuse for not engaging the question.

[bobthedrummer]

134. It is a matter of FAITH, as stated clearly in my post n/t

[David Sky]

137. Faith is not "knowing", and your answer also ignores the...

implications of the both original thesis and the potentially harmful results of such a rationale.

Talk about selective reasoning and ignoring anything flaws in such reasoning!

[Humanist_Activist]

142. So, because of your faith in an eternal life after this one, this life has no value?

and that you support the death penalty simply because of this faith? That others should die because of your beliefs?

[Abin Sur]

64. While I support the death penalty, I'm an atheist

So I couldn't say...

[RebelOne]

70. Agreed, Can't say because I am also an atheist. n/t

[Ignis]

67. Hypocritically.

[librechik]

73. hypocrisy. And no, they have no idea they are being hypocriites

and they won't get it if you try to explain.

[blkmusclmachine]

75. Some so-called "Christians" are bald-faced liars and hypocrites:

Uneducated, fearful, and viciously jealous of others. And some are not. You'll know as soon as they open their mouth. Don't expect the former to have any self-awareness AT ALL. They are a lost cause, and readily susceptible to violence and propoganda. I have heard some refer to them as "Talibangelicals."

[lunatica]

76. They don't remember Jesus was executed like a common criminal

Maybe they would have agreed with the Roman government at the time.

[Humanist_Activist]

98. Uhm, the Crucifixion was necessary to "save" humanity...

at least according to the Bible and Christians. Jesus' execution and suffering were necessary to fulfill what Christians believe is prophecy, in that sense, it was a good thing, not a bad thing.

[lunatica]

112. So you would have agreed with the Romans' crucifixion at the time?

Christians didn't exist at the time. Jews did. So what about today's Christians who believe that the Jews murdered Jesus? Is that prophesy too?

[Humanist_Activist]

127. No, I'm against the death penalty on principle alone, and the Jews murdered Jesus thing is just...

antisemitism along with the schizophrenic nature of christian belief. An example would be that Jesus' death was predicted, at least according to the gospels, so what happens to free will in that situation? Another example of diametrically opposed beliefs that Christians have.

To put it simply, Christian beliefs on the death penalty are up to the individual Christian to believe, there is no correct position, their Bible supports the death penalty for all sorts of things, but Jesus' life and death could be interpreted to be anti-death penalty.

[LynneSin]

78. Why do you assume we Christians all support it? Did all Muslims support the Terrorists on 9/11?

We're a big group of people and many of us do not support it including myself. BTW Catholics are very anti-death penalty

[cleanhippie]

80. That wasn't the question that was asked.

The OP never stated that either.

[LynneSin]

81. But I profess the faith of Christianity - so do many DUers

and I think many of us are opposed to the death penalty.

[trotsky]

85. Then your answer to the OP's question would just be "I don't know, because I'm not one of them."

But there are people who identify themselves as Christians who support the death penalty. The OP just wanted to see if anyone is familiar with their reasoning, I'm guessing.

[LynneSin]

87. then clarify it to say "How do SOME Christians"

the OP comes across as lumping all of us together and I'm offended - hence the comparison of saying would we say all muslims cheered on the terrorists on 9/11. Clearly some did but most don't.

You'd be surprised at the number of Christian faiths that oppose the Death Penalty - The Catholics are the front runners with that.

[trotsky]

92. I wouldn't be surprised because I know a lot of them do oppose it.

But the OP also didn't say that ALL Christians support it, either.

[cleanhippie]

91. So then the OP was not directed at you then, right?

It seems pretty clear as to just whom is was directed though.

[Humanist_Activist]

88. Any myriad of ways, but those aren't important, not really...

what I find fascinating is this assumption that the New Testament is the one that is supposed to be followed, while the Old is supposed to be ignored, the question should be, where does Jesus say to ignore the old law?

[NMMNG]

97. Good question

Executions in the Bible Belt greatly outweigh those in any other part of the country. Their Christ seems to be a wrathy one, not a forgivy one.

[Humanist_Activist]

100. According to Christianity, there are no innocents, everyone is a sinner...

I seem to have forgotten about this basic belief of their religion. Pretty sick, isn't it?

[Jakes Progress]

123. Again, you are confusing a religion with a whole faith.

Now if you want to say Baptists or Catholics or Lutherans, we might be able to talk. But you lump them all together and make assumptions based on nothing but your own tiny views.

[Humanist_Activist]

130. What are you talking about? Without original sin, Jesus died for nothing...

These are basic tenets of Christian faith, and yes we are talking about generalities, that's all I've been talking about here, perhaps you are the one who is confused?

[Jakes Progress]

132. I'm not confused.

But you need help. I don't care to give it to you right now. I'm not that Christian. The Christian thing to do would be to forgive you and try to help you through whatever pain you have. That is what the teachings of Jesus would have a Christian do. That has nothing to do with original sin. It has to do with trying to live according to the precepts of the teachings of Jesus. Me? I would rather just let you blather. Your screen is obvious. You prejudice plain.

[Humanist_Activist]

135. Again, what prejudice? In addition, what pain?

You assume knowledge of me without any evidence, yet you call me prejudiced?

[Jakes Progress]

138. You'll need someone else to help you with that.

I'm not Christian enough.

[Humanist_Activist]

140. First off, what does it mean to say you aren't Christian enough, and second, what makes you think...

I need help at all, is it because all non-Christians are broken/damaged in your mind, or is it something else.

[Jakes Progress]

143. Bless you, my son.

[Humanist_Activist]

145. Nice condescending non-answer. n/t

[Deep13]

103. They are focusing on the OT...

...and the numerous injunctions to kill people who violate religious law.

[laconicsax]

104. Without capital punishment, there'd be no Christianity.

Kinda hard to convince people that someone died for humanity's sins if they went peacefully in their sleep or simply got sick and died.

[ButterflyBlood]

111. Well this Christian doesn't

and I can only speak for myself.