Buddha Tattoos In Thailand Are Not For Visitors

[AsahinaKimi]

If Thailand’s Culture Minister, Niphit Intharasombat, gets his way, tattoo parlors will be off limits to the millions of foreigners who visit the Southeast Asian nation every year.

The Culture Ministry firmly believes that foreigners inking images of Buddha and other sacred images onto their non-Buddhist skins, is highly insensitive to a nation comprised mostly of Buddhists.

Tourists visiting Thailand are known as farangs and Thais are aware that belief systems are different. Still in all, they should be respected and in this vein, tattoos of religious images are cultural no-nos for those on the outside looking in.

A Buddha tattoo, which is known as Sak Yant, has special meaning and is written in the holy language of Sanskrit. Usually, a Buddhist monk or a Brahmin priest makes them. Thais believe these religious tattoos grant strength and power to the bearer. For this reason, they are very popular among Thai boxers.

more..
http://www.weirdasianews.com/2011/09/15/buddha-tattoos-thailand-visitors/

[renate]

1. I think Buddha himself would tell Mr. Intharasombat to mind his own business n/t

[MADem]

2. I think money talks. Those tattoo parlor owners are going to listen to

the purse before they listen to the culture minister.

Who the fuck is he to say who is a Buddhist, and who isn't? Racist fucker!

[Kennah]

3. Speaking of money, could this be a ploy by the Culture Minister?

Issue the threat to drum up tourist dollars and tattoo parlor business?

"Buddha tattoos! Get yer Buddha tattoos! Get 'em before they're banned!"

[MADem]

7. Maybe, but he'd best watch himself--those tattooists, should this

become marginalized/illegal or even suddenly desirable, will emigrate to Europe, USA and Canada, and charge ten times as much for the same shit...and teach Whitey McBearded-Guy with his tattoo needle how to do it as well!!

[rox63]

4. What if the visitor is a buddhist? n/t

[msongs]

5. the buddha did not consider himself to be sacred nt

[bengalherder]

6. My friend got a similar tattoo from a buddhist priest in Thailand.

It was not a fashion statement and the buddha cannot adorn a more earnestly beautiful woman.

Those who are meant to have them will have them.

[ZombieHorde]

8. Hopefully this will help quell the myth that says Buddhism is not a religion.

But it probably won't.

All those Buddhists just don't understand "real Buddhism" the way Americans do. :sarcasm:

[white_wolf]

15. On the question of whether Buddhism is or is not a religion, I can definitely see the debate.

I consider myself a Buddhist, but I don't consider it a religion, because it doesn't have the hallmarks of religion. There are no gods(at least not in the branch I follow), it is very anti-dogmatic, it is based not upon blind faith, but opening testing the Buddha's teachings and proving them true through your experiences.

[ZombieHorde]

17. Buddhism fits the sociological definition for religion:

Buddhism fits the sociological definition for religion: supernatural answers to life's philosophical questions.

I know Americans love telling other cultures they're doing their religion/culture wrong, but doesn't that seem illogical? Every Buddhist culture is religious, but American intellectuals who don't like religion, yet like Buddhism, can't stand their own contradiction, so they call everyone else wrong.

[Deep13]

9. Don't think nonbelievers should be bound by Buddhist rules.

At the same time, it is pretty pretentious for non-believers to have religious images that they don't believe in tatooed on.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. If you're a visitor in a foreign country, you have to play by their rules

I've never been to Thailand, but I want to go some day, so I've read up on it, and one bit of advice that all the guidebooks give is that Thais take Buddhism very seriously. One of the things that can get a tourist into trouble is climbing on or striking silly photographic poses on or near Buddhist statuary.

When I was orienting students for study abroad in Japan, I used to warn them that Japan set the rules, even if they thought the rules were silly. For example, despite the hot, steamy summers, people do not go barefoot outside or walk around bare-chested (men) or in halter tops (women) unless they are literally on a beach or at a swimming pool. No short-shorts, either. Even construction workers working in 95° weather wear tank tops.

Furthermore, even though marijuana use is no big deal on the West Coast or in Hawaii, where most of the students came from, it is a HUGE deal in Japan. I had to warn the students that if they were caught with marijuana, the best-case scenario was deportation and being barred from the country for ten years, while the worst-case scenario was five years in prison. In addition, the partner university in Japan would be likely to send everyone home and shut down the program, given the Japanese fondness for guilt by association.

I also had to warn them that if they were caught breaking a rule, they should stifle their American tendency to argue that the rule was stupid or that there were mitigating circumstances. The ONLY socially acceptable solution was to apologize profusely and promise never to do it again.

It's just plain good sense and courtesy to follow the rules of a country you're visiting, even if you think they're stupid.

(My current candidate for stupidest rule in Japan is the one that forbids non-resident foreigners, i.e. tourists and business travelers, to buy prepaid cell phones.)

[Silent3]

12. At this point at least it's not a rule yet

Only "If Thailand’s Culture Minister, Niphit Intharasombat, gets his way" will it be a rule that foreigners couldn't get these particular tattoos.

If my opinions were rules (not that I'd impose my opinions on this matter even if I could), there would be a whole lot less tattooing in the world of any type.

[Deep13]

13. well, right, one has to follow the rules of the host country.

and that includes informal rules of convention.

[mistertrickster]

11. I have only a passing knowledge of Buddhism, but I'm pretty sure that KICK BOXING

is not considered a virtuous past-time in this system of belief.

[AsahinaKimi]

14. Actually the martial arts have always been approved by

Buddhists. In early China, the only way Shaolin monks could protect themselves from robbers and gangs were to learn and master the various forms of Kung Fu. The types were often named after animals in Nature, such as The Tiger form, Crane, Dragon, Snake, Monkey, and Praying Mantis.

Buddha himself, before he had become enlightened, had been of the family of a great king, and had been taught since childhood the ways of war, and martial arts. Thai Kick Boxing is a sport, but it is also used as self defense and as a tool for protecting your family.

TaiChi comes from Martial arts forms, and is used by many as a way of keeping their bodies young, strong and supple as the years go by.

In Japan, both Shinto and Buddhism have never shied away from the martial arts. Zen Buddhism was often part of the teaching of Kenjitsu, and other forms of martial arts. The way of the Samurai, Bushido comes from many of these teachings as well as years and years of training to become proficient in the Samurai Arts, which include Kyūdō, Japanese archery. The stories of the Buddhist monks teaching the Zen of hitting the center of the target without looking at it..

[mistertrickster]

18. Yeah, yeah . . . I watched that show with David Carradine too . . .

Zen monks were pacifist in WW2.

[AsahinaKimi]

24. I WAS not talking about a fictional TV program

that was created in the United States. I am talking about Asian history, and its culture down though the years, which span more than China, but clear to places like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. You may not know this, but at one time those who taught the Shaolin Arts were forced to flee China and go to places like, the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesisa, where they could continue to practice their skills. There is a documentary I would suggest; Needle though Brick.

http://www.hulu.com/search?query=Needle+Through+Brick&st=0&fs=

[mistertrickster]

29. I lived in Malaysia, Japan, and China, heh.

E. M. Forester said, people always think the East is mysterious but they confuse mystery with "muddle."

"A mystery is only a high sounding term for a muddle. No advantage in stirring it up . . . "

It is as wrong to put romanticize Eastern values as it is to romanticize our own--unless you like the caste system, Emperor worship, and concubinage.

[Vehl]

31. ? KickBoxing is not virtuous?

have only a passing knowledge of Buddhism, but I'm pretty sure that KICK BOXING
is not considered a virtuous past-time in this system of belief

For starters, the fact that some kickboxing games are held as cage fights(not always, and not everywhere, only when its commercialized like the MMA here in the US) does not mean it was the same in the past.

As AsahinaKimi pointed out, Buddhism(and Hinduism) does not have a list of "thou shalt not" clauses akin to the one found in the Abrahamic religions. people are allowed to do whatever they like. After all one is the maker of one's own destiny (as per Karmic theory). There is no judge except oneself.

Buddha was a Kshatriya by birth, thus it goes without saying that he would be an expert in the arts of war. The same goes for Bodhidharma, the founder of Zen Buddhism. He too was a Prince, and would have known the martial arts(as evidenced by the multitude of war-like myths surrounding him). Fighting and enlightenment are not mutually exclusive things.

It seems to me that notwithstanding the above quote of Forester, you do seem to romanticize eastern ways of life quite a bit...for example, claiming that kick boxing is un-Buddhist. btw, also refer to the history of the Samurai..who were both devout Buddhists as well as sword masters..if I remember correctly, a perfect cut by a katana is a common zen example.

The problem of thinking along the lines of "this cannot be xyz... this cannot be abc" only arises when one thinks along the Abrahamic religious notions of right/wrong blessed/sinful. When one stops thinking along such a dualistic worldview, one sees that there is to be perfection found in everything. some might call it the zen of motorcycle maintenance...or the zen of kickboxing. If there is no sin, why worry? if there is no god..why bother? if there is no rule, why confine?

cheers :)

[mistertrickster]

35. "In Buddhism, people are allowed to do whatever they like."

I'm just going to walk away from that one . . .

Practicing "non attachment" now.

[Vehl]

36. :)

detachment is good :P


read "In Buddhism, people are allowed to do whatever they like." = no proscription.

Buddhism only says that "Right action" and "The View" are important. The interpretation of what is the "right view" and "right action" are is ultimately left to the practitioner.

I am aware that some "Buddhists", especially the neo-Buddhists put too much emphasis on who said what, and get caught up in scriptural interpretations..but that was not what Buddhism was intended to be..as evidenced by Buddha's last words "work out your enlightenment". It is no accident that Zen Buddhists say "If you meet the Buddha, kill him."

[Silent3]

32. +1 n/t

[mistertrickster]

30. An interesting side note--the original blue "willow pattern" plates

were said to depict the burning of the Shao-lin monastery and the fleeing of the monks.

All the original plates were destroyed by the Manchu Emperor because they were rightly seen as seditious, but English manufacturers copied the pattern.

What now often looks like a large tree behind a temple was originally smoke from the burning building.

[ZombieHorde]

16. Various Buddhist sect have practiced martial arts as a discipline for a very long time.

Judo was sometimes practiced by Zen Buddhist monks. The famous Shaolin (the Kung Fu "warriors") in China were all Buddhist monks and pacifists, but they kick ass in the movies.

[mistertrickster]

19. How about kicking the shit out of people for gambling? Violence is violence nt

[ZombieHorde]

21. You have no idea what their culture is about.

If you are not even aware of the connection between Buddhism and martial arts, then your judgements on Buddhist cultures are probably based on fantasies.

[mistertrickster]

22. I lived there for three years. Kick boxing is less a "martial art"

and more like cage fighting.

[ZombieHorde]

23. You're only embarrassing yourself now,

You don't care about the truth. If I am wrong, then go research Buddhism.

[mistertrickster]

27. Have you ever actually been to a kick boxing event? Because I have.

It's not pretty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZfpKpcO-vA

Not exactly AiKiDo, is it.

[ZombieHorde]

38. No doubt, the music in that video is really bad, but I don't see how the fighting contradicts

Buddhist teachings.

[mistertrickster]

20. The danger of hepatitis would be enough to keep a thinking person from a

back alley tattoo.

But, heigh ho, those who frequent Patpong Street are unthinking on many levels.

[AsahinaKimi]

25. I really would like to know why

Americans have to apply American values on Asian Culture, as if American values had any more merit? I don't get this...at all.

[Deep13]

26. Or why Thailand = back alley

Sure, I'd want to know what the safety procedures are. But one can easily get hepatitis from an unclean tattoo needle in the USA or England too.

[mistertrickster]

28. I'd like to know why more liberal-than-thou posters here assume that

I think getting a tattoo here in the US is a perfectly safe procedure.

It's not. And that's one reason, besides not wanting to pay money to disfigure myself, that I don't have one.

And it's not cultural bigotry to reason that a small country recently moving out of third-world status may have even fewer health and safety regulations than we do.

That's just common sense, which is a good thing to use when you actually live overseas, as I did.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

37. It's simple.

They think their values have objective merit. Whether that is true remains to be seen. I would imagine it's much the same in other parts of the world. When an American hears a story about a proposed law in Thailand, he does not immediately think "this law must be the result of differing cultural values." He judges the law by what he knows, just as he would any law in the United States. Where in the world the law is proposed does not seem immediately relevant.

As far as I'm concerned, at least, culture and tradition are not legitimate reasons for supporting a law. These things are provincial, temporary, and vary greatly between different groups of people. If a law promotes a value, it should be one that can be agreed upon regardless of culture or tradition.

[Silent3]

33. Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids.

If the tattooist wants to provide the tattoo, and the customer wants to receive the tattoo, the only issue that should be of government concern is the cleanliness and safety of the procedure -- health department issues, not morality police issues.

I figure that 99% of the time the decision to get a tattoo is a bad one, but that's another matter entirely.

[Vehl]

34. bad decision by the government

They should not let what the minister thinks of as "Buddhism" to intrude upon the personal lives/livelihood of the people. This is a slippery slope, and if not arrested early, would result in a situation like Srilanka, where "Buddhist" monks have politician parties..run for election (on rather ethnocentric lines) and get elected as ministers.

If Buddha saw this Tattoo ban he would probably laugh.