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Is there a death penalty-sized hole in Catholicism’s ‘seamless garment’ ethic?

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:25 AM
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Is there a death penalty-sized hole in Catholicism’s ‘seamless garment’ ethic?
September 28, 2011
NEWS ANALYSIS

By David Gibson

(RNS) Is Catholic opposition to the death penalty losing traction as opposition to abortion, gay marriage, contraception and other causes become the defining “pro-life” issues for the American hierarchy?

That’s what some Catholics are asking after the bishops’ Pro-Life Activities Committee on Monday (Sept. 26) released its message for October’s “Respect Life Month” campaign, which kicks off in thousands of U.S. parishes on Oct. 2.

Galveston-Houston Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo, who wrote the message, focused tightly on the bishops’ increasingly fierce fight with President Obama over mandated contraception coverage, allegations of growing discrimination against believers, concerns about excess embryos from fertility treatments and long-term care of the infirm.

Conspicuously absent from the letter was any mention of the death penalty.

http://www.religionnews.com/index.php?/rnstext/bishops_life_advocacy_has_a_death_penalty-shaped_hole/

Also conspicuously absent from the letter was any mention of the ongoing wars.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:30 AM
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1. If Catholics oppose the death penalty
then how come some of them support killing abortion providers?
:hide:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:36 AM
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2. They don't.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:14 AM
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4. And you know this how?
What you're stating is that no member of the Catholic faith is in favor of killing those who legally provide abortions.

That's a pretty broad brush, what evidence do you have to support your statement?
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:37 AM
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6. Nice try at burden shifting.
It's not my assertion that Catholics support killing abortion providers.

And your own conflation between coincidence and causation fails.

The fact that some individuals bomb abortion clinics does not establish that the cause of it is Catholic doctrine. The fact that some of these individuals may be a "member of the Catholic faith" is, without more, a coincidence and therefore irrelevant.

Next you'll be telling me Christopher Hitchens is a warmonger because he is a member of the atheist community.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 10:09 AM
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7. Motivation matters
John Kopp converted to Catholicism and later shot Dr. Slepian. Did Catholicism make him shoot doctors? Not as such no, but it is very foolish to suggest that religiosity is not a motivator for anti-abortion frenzy. One look at any pro-life event is all that is needed to demonstrate a great deal of emphasis placed on religious reasons why it is supposedly evil. A quick scan of religious groups' views on abortion will similarly show the same overwhelming link between strident pro-life stances and religion

You won't see the same overlap between atheism and support for wars of choice. In fact you'll see a bit of the reverse. War support rallies eend to display a strong connection to right-wing politics, and the correlation here is linked again to religion. (Being a Christian makes you more likely to be a Republican, and less likely to be a Democrat). Atheist groups on the other hand show up in mostly left-leaning cause - they frequently march for gay rights and choice etc. Now these are tendencies of course not requisites. There are Catholic abortionists and atheist fascists too.

But motivation is key. Official Catholic dogma is EXTREMELY anti-abortion. There really is no atheist dogma for obvious reasons, but very few influential atheists make much of a deal out of a pro-war stance, certainly not to a thousandth of the extent that the RC hierarchy push anti-abortion stances.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:14 AM
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5. Aren't most of those involved in murders Evangelicals?
While I appreciate Dawkins' observation that moderates create an environment of tolerance for extremists to flourish, I pretty sure any the vast majority of R. Catholics do not support killing doctors and neither does the leadership.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 11:55 AM
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8. Generally they don't
I have a strong antipathy for the right-wing political 'pro-life' movement; but the large majority of them don't support *murdering* abortion providers, and so far as I'm aware, most of those who do are not Catholics.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:11 AM
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3. I would dearly love to wake up one morning...
to find the entire misogynistic male hierarchy of the Vatican and Archdioceses throughout the world had been replaced with Nuns and more liberal/progressive Jesuits, such as Thomas Reese and his colleagues, with whom the Ratzinger Pope has had great consternation... How interesting that would be...

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 12:16 PM
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9. Yes, Among the religious right, there seems to be an obsession with only *some* aspects of
'morality' and being 'pro-life'. In the UK, a majority of politicians, including many Tories, are pro-choice and anti-death-penalty, and we will probably continue to have no death penalty, and liberal abortion laws. However, there is a significant and noisy minority of religious right-wingers in politics, who claim to be 'pro-life' but support the death penalty; e.g. Catholics Ann Widdecombe and Ian Duncan-Smith and Anglican Nadine Dorries and a few who are not particularly religious but are fanatically traditionalist. (N.b. the last formal vote on the DP was in 1994, so it's possible that one or two of the people I mentioned could have changed their view - but so far as I know they haven't.)

There are virtually no non-Tory politicians in the UK who support the death penalty. There are some Labour politicians who are pro-life, but for the most part they do not tag onto the generally Christian-Right campaigns.
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