Tibetan Activists: Monk Set Himself on Fire

[struggle4progress]

Monday, Oct. 03, 2011

(BEIJING) — Another monk has set himself on fire to protest against China's tight grip over Buddhist practices in Tibet, an activist group said.

Free Tibet said Monday that the monk, aged 17 or 18, is from the Kirti monastery in Aba in western Sichuan near the Tibetan border. A statement from the group, which calls for self-determination for Tibet, said it is the fifth such self-immolation incident this year.

It said the monk, Kalsang, was holding a picture of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader, and calling for religious rights and freedoms in Tibet when he set himself on fire in a vegetable market in Aba ...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2096085,00.html

[applegrove]

1. Those monks are so sick. It only devastates their families and does nothing to shame China

when they self immolate. So sad.

[humblebum]

2. Oh, slowly but surely, it is shaming China.

[cleanhippie]

3. So you approve of self-immolation as an effective protest strategy??

Perhaps then it is an avenue for you to explore to bring attention to the persecution you endure. It certainly would make quite the statement.

[humblebum]

4. Leave to cleanhippie to support the forced imposition of Chinese state atheism. nt

[cleanhippie]

5. I'm not sure what reality you inhabit, but its not the one the rest of share.

It never ceases to amaze me at just how incoherent you can be.


Wow, dude. Just wow.

[humblebum]

6. Hey! i 'm not the one supporting forced state atheism. nt

[cleanhippie]

7. Hey! And I'm not the one posting things that no one has stated and babbling incoherently.

[humblebum]

8. Actually, you just did.

[cleanhippie]

10. Un-fucking-believeable.

You do realize that everyone can SEE your posts, right?

[humblebum]

11. No more unbelievable than your original obnoxious statement.

You do realize that everyone can SEE your posts, right?

Of self-immolation you said:

"Perhaps then it is an avenue for you to explore to bring attention to the persecution you endure. It certainly would make quite the statement." Pretty seedy, but typical.

[cleanhippie]

12. Again, bum, just what reality do you inhabit?

What does ANYTHING in my statement have to do with your incoherent reply?

Wow, dude. Wow.

[laconicsax]

9. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

humblebum: This is shaming China
cleanhippie: Do you approve of self-immolation as an effective protest strategy?
humblebum: Leave it to cleanhippie to support forced, state atheism.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[darkstar3]

13. Non sequitur of the year.

[ZombieHorde]

30. China is not imposing atheism, China is banning most religious practices.

Buddhists are atheists, their gods are not literal beings in the heavens.

[humblebum]

31. It's been going on for a long time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/253345.stm

http://www.nohrden.net/Nohrden/Remember.html

[ZombieHorde]

33. I am going to respond to both of your replies in this reply.

I know the word "atheism" is being used, and this has been happening for a while, but China has against atheist religions as well. There was even that slow-moving exercise they first supported, and then rejected when it became popular. I think something is getting lost in the translation.

I am sure there are many Buddhists who believe in literal Gods, but that is not normal. One of my old friends was the spiritual coordinator of the Tibetan Buddhist Church (center) in my town, and he told me the gods were not considered literal, but they did believe reincarnation was literal, and he was a little offended when I suggested reincarnation was a trick to help the practitioner overcome his or her attachment to enlightenment.

[humblebum]

32. Not all Buddhists are atheists. nt

[darkstar3]

14. I've seen many self-immolations on the news, but nothing in the way of shame from China. Prove it.

[The Magistrate]

15. Nor Will You, Sir

China's government considers Tibet to be part of China, or more precisely, part of the territory a government of China normally rules, and has fairly good historical warrant for doing so.

"There is a certain impertinence in allowing oneself to burnt for an opinion."

[humblebum]

16. It's interesting to see how many atheists here are coming to

the defense of forced Chinese atheism in Tibet. Very telling.

[The Magistrate]

17. Merely Standing Ready To Provide A Bit Of Background, Sir

The relation of China and Tibet is a tangled web, the particulars of which are not widely known in the West at present.

My comment only stated that the Chinese government will not feel any shame over incidents like this, and that the Chinese government feels it is within its rights to regard Tibet as Chinese territory, and has real historical warrant for that belief. These statements of fact defend nothing, and do not even disclose a particular view of the rights and wrongs of the matter: not even the closing quote from a man universally regarded as among the greatest geniuses of nineteenth century Europe does that....

[humblebum]

18. The tangled web aside, China is still in serious violation of international law.

It should be added, though, that China is acting within the limits of its own constitution, which allows for some religious freedom, as long as it doesn't interfere with the process of government or threaten national security. The constitution also does not allow for religious organizations to be controlled from outside the country.

"China's atheist communist leaders now view themselves as arbiters of religious rituals as esoteric as reincarnation -- as if they had meditated on Buddhist texts while reading Marx's "Das Kapital" and Mao's "Little Red Book."

In the end, it's all about control. The party wants to dilute Tibetan culture, and ensure that all Tibetan high lamas, particularly the Dalai Lama, no longer represent a threat to its monopoly on power.

You can bet a molded ball of roasted barley on that."

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2011/03/chinas_atheist_rulers_plot_end.html

[The Magistrate]

20. Perhaps, Sir, But that Will Not Concern A Government Ruling One Fifth Of the World's Population

And if you want to demonstrate knowledge, it helps to write your own stuff, rather than quote whole bon mots included, from someone else. There might be profit in discussing the matter with Mr.Johnson, but it is hard to see what you bring to the table yourself....

[humblebum]

21. Do you really believe that China is not sensitive to the opinions

of the other four-fifths of the worlds's population? The more it opens up, and the more involves itself in world affairs, the more concern it will necessarily develop. And I did not "quote whole bon mots."

[The Magistrate]

22. What Makes You Think Four-Fifths Of the World Cares A Rap About This, Sir?

It will continue as it has. This is hardly the first area Han China has assimilated through swamping the native populace by immigration hard on the heels of soldiery. A large part of what we are wont to call 'China' nowadays was made so by such a method.

[humblebum]

23. The China of today is hardly the China of 50 years ago, and

the time is not far off when everything they do will impact much of the world.

[The Magistrate]

24. What China Does Impacts The World Already, Sir, And Has For A Long Time

But what it does in Tibet matters to almost no one outside China, and Tibet itself. What China does in Tibet certainly has no appreciable impact on the world at large.

[humblebum]

25. Tibet matters to many outside of China and time will tell whether

or not anything changes. China's human rights record will become increasingly scrutinized as time passes.

[The Magistrate]

26. Time Has Already Told, Sir

The thing is as done and over, essentially, as the claim of the government on Taiwan to be the true government of China. No government on earth, at least no government of any size, has a leg to stand on in criticizing China on grounds of 'human rights' by now; if anything, China's behavior will become increasingly the norm in such matters....

[humblebum]

27. If China's behavior becomes "increasingly the norm in such matters"

then the future of the world does not look bright.

[The Magistrate]

28. Who Thinks The World Has A Bright Future, Sir?

We are in a global race to the bottom so far as living standards and workplace conditions are concerned, and China is setting the pace....

[cleanhippie]

19. Yawn

[laconicsax]

29. BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

darkstar3: I haven't seen China express any shame over this.
Magistrate: Nor will it because of China's position on Tibet.
humblebum: It's interesting to see how many atheists here are coming to the defense of forced Chinese atheism in Tibet. Very telling.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What alternate reality are you in?

[struggle4progress]

34. Two more Tibetans self-immolate in China, rights group says

BEIJING (BNO NEWS) -- Two former Tibetan Buddhist monks set themselves on fire in protest against Chinese rule in the southwestern province of Sichuan on Friday, just days after another monk also set himself alight, a rights group said.

Free Tibet, a group campaigning for an end to the 'Chinese occupation' of Tibet, said 19-year-old Choepel and 18-year-old Khayang were dressed in lay clothes when they set themselves on fire near the main street in Ngaba Town ...

At least five Tibetans in Ngaba have set themselves on fire within the past two weeks.

Locals said that Choepel died at the scene of the incident after suffering severe burns over his body. He was reportedly expelled from the Kirti Monastery following fellow monk Phuntsog's self-immolation earlier this year ...

http://lincolntribune.com/?p=21118

[laconicsax]

35. At this rate, they're going to run out of monks and find that nothing has changed.

[humblebum]

36. Several atheists are sure displaying their true colors in this thread.nt

[laconicsax]

38. As long as you understand what you're talking about, go in peace. n/t

[humblebum]

39. Complacency toward human rights issues is accommodation

of those abuses.

[laconicsax]

40. And in statements of fact, you see complacency.

Interesting.

[humblebum]

41. And where else would one see complacency? nt

[laconicsax]

42. Lots of places. Think about it. n/t

[The Magistrate]

37. The Age Of these People Is An Interesting Element Here, Sir

They are all very young.