Values Voter Summit: Mormonism is not Christianity (but Mormons support many religious right causes)

[alp227]

Washington Post: Mormonism takes center stage at conservative event
by Rachel Weiner

The uneasy relationship between Mitt Romney and the evangelical wing of the Republican Party over his Mormon religion has been part of the quiet subtext of the primary contest so far. On Friday, the quiet ended.

At the Values Voters summit in Washington, Southern Baptist Convention leader Robert Jeffress told reporters that Mormonism was a cult and that Romney was not a Christian.

“Mormonism is not Christianity,” Jeffress declared.

Jeffress is a supporter of Romney rival, Texas Gov. Rick Perry , and introduced Perry at the summit to rousing applause.

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mormonism-takes-center-stage-at-conservative-event/2011/10/07/gIQA9rX0TL_story.html

My comments:
- Silly interfaith disputes like this is why I'm an atheist.
- Also, the LDS Church along with many other non-LDS Christian churches backed Prop. 8, a California ballot initiative in 2008 that banned same sex marriage. Most Mormons also support the Republican Party. Also are teetotalers (abstain from alcohol) and share many values with conservative Christianity.

[sakabatou]

1. Do they know a TRUE Scotsman?

[laconicsax]

2. LDS is a Christian denomination.

Hell, the name "The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-Day Saints" gives a bit of a clue to where it falls.

[jwirr]

4. I think you miss the point. The LDS define Jesus Christ in a totally

different way than Christian churches. Jesus Christ is also defined by Islam but no one is suggesting we call Islam believers Christian.

[laconicsax]

5. Not all Christians are the same. n/t

[ButterflyBlood]

6. But you can only move away so much before you cease being Christian

The big things as far as I can tell are that Mormons also reject the Trinity and have an addition to the Bible. This is seen to other churches as if someone claims to be a Jew but recognizes and believes in the New Testament.

I'll also note that Mormon baptisms are not considered valid by any other denomination. If you were baptized as a baby any other church that recognizes infant baptism will accept you as a member without requiring you be rebaptized, and if baptized as an adult than any church would accept you as a member without rebaptism. Mormons do adult baptism, but if you are baptized as a Mormon and wish to convert to another church they would require you to be rebaptized. I don't know of any denomination that treats Mormon baptisms as valid. The same applies for anyone converting to Mormonism, even if they were baptized as an adult in their old church.

[laconicsax]

9. They believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for humanity's sins and was resurrected.

This is a core belief. They are a Christian denomination. It is how they view themselves, and it isn't your right to declare otherwise.

How they interact with other denominations is immaterial. Did the Catholic Church always recognize Protestant baptisms?

[jwirr]

13. Most of us are not judging anyone here - we are explaining why the

other denominations do not accept them as Christian. By the way were did you hear that is their belief regarding the role of Jesus Christ in the Bible? In other words what church do you belong to that thinks this?

Edited to say that you should take the capital S off of the son of God. That is another point of disagreement. They accept him as son just as they are sons.

[jwirr]

12. Don't forget they also baptize us rather we want it or not - all you

have to do is show up in their family tree. They also baptize the dead.

There are many differences. Any Mormon running for president is going to have a hard time.

For those who think we should not consider their religion - okay did you know that they believe that when our nation collapses it is the Mormons that god choose to take over. That is their doctrine - not mine.

[jwirr]

11. No but there are some things they all agree on.

[laconicsax]

15. The things that all Christians agree on are agreed on by Mormons.

It's intolerant, prejudicial behavior to refuse to let a minority define themselves.

[ButterflyBlood]

19. The key differences most Christian denominations would draw:

1-The Trinity. Mormons believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each separate entities with separate corporeal bodies rather than just different "faces" or "states" of the same entity.
2-They believe that God was once a man on another planet like our own and became a god through righteous living that they hope to acheive and then created this planet. So that definitely contradicts the belief that God is without beginning or end and "maker of all that is seen and unseen" per the Nicene Creed.
3-The next line states "We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father", except Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers, hence not the "only" Son of God. That also contradicts quite a bit of quotes in the Bible, the most obvious being the well quoted John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

That's just the start and I'm sure a theologian could explain plenty of more things, (that doesn't even cover their radically different view of the afterlife which is quite a bit different from even universalist Christians, of which I am one), but there are plenty of key differences that even the most liberal denominations would draw with Mormons.

[Humanist_Activist]

20. Some points...

1. Ehh, the whole 3 Gods in one thing is just silly(we are not Polytheists, we swear!), not even supported in the Bible, and Unitarian Christians differ more on this than Mormons.

2. Yeah, this is nuts, but no more nuttier than most beliefs other Christians have on the afterlife, which are, again, not supported by anything in their holy book, but rather more paganistic sources.

3. This one is a slightly inaccurate, they are only brothers in the same sense that, according to Mormons and most other Christian denominations, we are all "Children of God", that he created all of us, including Satan. Of course, the contemporary beliefs about Satan aren't really supported in the Bible no more so than any of the other points. But frankly, that's not the issue, Mormons consider themselves Christians, so that is what they are, they are unorthodox, but then again, they wouldn't be the first or last Christian denomination that is unorthodox.

Considering the contradictory nature of the founding doctrines and holy book of Christianity, not to mention the addition of a "New-New-Testament" as Mormons did, there is no way anyone can use any objective criteria to determine who is or is not a "true Christian" in this sense.

[trotsky]

17. So?

Every Christian sect has its own unique definition of Jesus. Mormons believe in his divinity too.

[tgearfanatic234]

8. +100

[Deep13]

3. It's their religious belief that Mormons are heretics and, therefore, against god.

We have to respect their faith. :eyes:

[ButterflyBlood]

7. It's a bit more nuanced than that

I'm not one to point fingers screaming about who is or isn't Christian because it's not my place to judge, but looking at things from a purely theological in an academic sense standpoint, I can easily see why someone would argue Mormons aren't Christian. Their view of Jesus is completely different, they do not believe in the Trinity and they add something to the Bible that no other denomination accepts as valid. And it's not just fundies and evangelicals who hold this view, as I noted above the mainline Protestant churches and Catholic church don't accept Mormon baptisms as valid either.

[Humanist_Activist]

10. I like how you say you don't point fingers, then, in a runabout way, do exactly that...

typical Christian hypocrisy.

[jwirr]

14. How would you go about discussing why Romney is going to have

a hard time getting many Christian votes? Refusing to talk about an issue is not going to make it go away. We are not judging them - we are trying to explain why churches are not going to vote for him.

[Humanist_Activist]

16. You seem to be arguing very persistantly about how Mormons differ from other Christian sects...

I don't know why it matters, they call themselves Christians, and therefore are Christians, its not more complicated than that. Considering the number of sects, cults, and denominations within Christianity, what's one more to you? We can say its stupid and idiotic for other Christians to exclude Mormons from being called Christian, but that's about it.

[Deep13]

18. They're non-Nicean.

If you are using the Constantinian definition of Christianity, Mormons don't fit. Under a broader definition they do, but then so do Gnostics, monophysitists, Arianists and Jehovah's witnesses.