Romney's religion. I almost feel sorry for the guy.

[trof]

"The Latter Day Saint movement arose in the Palmyra/Manchester area of western New York, where its founder, Joseph Smith, Jr., was raised during a period of religious revival in the early 19th century called the Second Great Awakening. This "awakening" was a Christian response to the secularism of the Age of Enlightenment and extended throughout the United States, particularly the frontier areas of the west."
Read much more about the history of Mormonism here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

Smith and his church came about during a time in America when ignorance, superstition and gullibility were much more prevalent than today. Electromagnetic telegraphy was in it's infancy in the U.S, so the fastest dissemination of information was still by horseback.

Today, I doubt that the founding tenets, customs, rituals, etc. of Mormonism would fly.
People would write them off as lunatic ravings.

Appearance to mere mortals of angels, almighty god himself, golden tablets buried in a sealed stone box (seen only by Joseph Smith (Jr.), and mandatory ritual underwear would be dismissed as poppycock.

(OK, the underwear...

AKA "The Temple Garment"
A Temple garment (also referred to as garments, or Mormon underwear)<1> is a type of underwear worn by members of some denominations of the Latter Day Saint movement, after they have taken part in the Endowment ceremony. Garments are worn both day and night and are required for any previously endowed adult to enter a church temple.<2> The undergarments are viewed as a symbolic reminder of the covenants made in temple ceremonies, and are viewed as either a symbolic or literal source of protection from the evils of the world.<3>

The garment is given as part of the washing and anointing portion of the endowment. Today, the temple garment is worn primarily by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and by members of some Mormon fundamentalist churches. Adherents consider them to be sacred and not suitable for public display.

The garment had four marks that were snipped into the cloth as part of the original Nauvoo Endowment ceremony.<5> These marks were a reverse-L-shaped symbol on the right breast, a V-shaped symbol on the left breast, and horizontal marks at the navel and over the right knee. One proposed element of the symbolism, according to early Mormon leaders, was a link to the Square and Compasses, the symbols of freemasonry,<7> to which Joseph Smith, Jr. had been initiated about seven weeks prior to his introduction of the Endowment ceremony.<8>

Thus, the V-shaped symbol on the left breast was referred to as "The Compasses", while the reverse-L-shaped symbol on the right breast was referred to by early church leaders as "The Square".<9>

According to an explanation by LDS Church President John Taylor in 1883, the "Square" represents "the justice and fairness of our Heavenly Father, that we will receive all the good that is coming to us or all that we earn, on a square deal", and the "Compasses" represents "the North Star".<10> In addition to the Square and Compasses, Taylor described the other symbols as follows: the collar represented the idea that the Lord's "yoke is easy and burden is light", or the "Crown of the Priesthood"; the double-knotted strings represented "the Trinity" and "the marriage covenant"; the navel mark represents "strength in the navel and marrow in the bones"; and the knee mark represents "that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ".<11>)

Alrighty then...
Evidently Romney is a true believer, otherwise he'd have left the church long ago.
In many other respects, he appears to be an educated, intelligent man.
And that's his problem.
How can you be apparently intelligent and worldly and still subscribe to some of the nutty tenets that are the foundation of your religion?

Disclaimer: I'm (rather obviously?) not a theist.
I'm a cynic and view all religions with a jaundiced eye.
Even so-called 'mainstream' sects have some hard-to-swallow 'legends', not the least of which is virgin birth (not exclusive to Christianity BTW).

OK, begin the inquisition and the flaying.
:-)

[valerief]

1. Are you for real? When Mitt Robme lays off thousands of people, he doesn't feel bad. nt

[JitterbugPerfume]

2. It IS poppycock--

but in my view , so is all religion.

[trof]

4. We are copacetic...as usual.

:hi:

[JitterbugPerfume]

9. Hi old friend!!

[Firebrand Gary]

3. Fuck Willard Romney...Women's rights, Gay rights, Economic Equality, American workers.

He does not five a shit about anyone except himself. If he were toilet paper, i'd wipe my @$$ with him.

[Worship Money]

7. He CLEARLY doesn't care

And everything his stuttering self has said (or tried to say) shows this clear as day. He's in it for himself, and is more than pathetic/chickenshit enough to do whatever he's told in order to get himself elected.

I'm so done with the MSM trying to present this fuck as a moderate of any kind. This country will have suffered a mortal wound if he becomes President, just like with any of these other ReThug clowns.

[Deep13]

21. Don't forget education and the environment.

He's against those too. :hi:

[Warpy]

5. There is nothing too silly for religious types to swallow

and the modernity of our age isn't any deterrent for crazy guys who start cults.

After all, look at $cientologists. If one has the money it takes to progress to the highest levels, one soon finds out he's been living in a science fiction novel that was too crummy to be published, so L. Ron turned it into a religion instead. It's no more or less nutty than Mormonism and it's contemporary.

Also look at the lines of crap other gods on earth have spewed, from Jim Jones through Marshall Applewhite through David Koresh through Warren Jeffs through Wayne Bent (a local loon in jug for molesting girl children in his cult). There's no crazy like god crazy and there are always going to be charismatic sociopaths who start cults and vulnerable people who will follow along.

I'm very democratic. They all look equally crazy to me.

[polichick]

8. Just look at the Catholic church and its institutionalized pedophilia. Equally crazy indeed.

[polichick]

6. "a time in America when ignorance, superstition and gullibility were much more prevalent than today"

Looking at today's Republican nutjobs, that seems unlikely.

[trof]

10. You have a point there.

:eyes:

[Deep13]

13. Yeah, when was that? nt

[Kolesar]

17. America had "religious freedom" that allowed them to profess belief in crazy stuff

In Europe, they would have had the shit stomped out of them for talking like that. A number of "original" religions started here in the 19th century. LDS survived because the Book of Mormon was published in a snazzy tooled volume with gold leaf edges.

PBS did a great 3 part documentary on LDS on "The American Experience".

[trof]

11. Oh dear. I got shuttled here from GD.

Ah well, musn't grumble.
;-)

[Deep13]

12. I don't object to Romney because of his magic underwear.

He would not be the first president to believe fantastic things. I object to Romney because he is an opportunistic, carpet-bagging, union-busting, dishonest, anti-education, anti-environment, anti-civil rights, pro-corportate huckster.

[NMMNG]

14. I don't feel sorry for him

He wasn't born believing that stuff, and he's free to leave it any time.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. I'm glad you said "almost"

I say "screw him"

[trof]

18. Yes, 'almost' was the key qualifier.

[David Sky]

16. Why is a rational, well-educated sociopath still associated with that..

religion?

Maybe I already used the key word, sociopath,

" How to spot a sociopath

Do they frequently manipulate others to achieve selfish goals, with no consideration of the effects on those manipulated?

Are they cavalier about the truth, and capable of telling lies to your face?

Do they have an air of self-importance, regardless of their true standing in society?

Have they no apparent sense of remorse, shame or guilt?

Is their charm superficial, and capable of being switched on to suit immediate ends? "

http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/teleg.htm

Romney remains a Mormon because he knew who had the money and machine to support him through his entire political career.

[Deep13]

20. Oddly, also the characteristics of a snake-oil salesman...

...which I have always seen Romney as.

[David Sky]

22. Romney will say ANYTHING to get elected!

He did this in Massachusetts to become one of the worst one term Governmors in history! That's his claim to fame!

He didn't INVENT Romneycare, it had been being developed by progressives in the legislature and the health care and insurance industry for years before Romney walked onto the scene. He had a Democratic controlled House and Senate and he couldn't do much without them. They pulled him along and got him to endorse it to get it by the insurance industry, in a plan that would keep most health insurers doing business in Mass.

Romneycare, like Obamacare, in essence is a large taxpayer funded windfall for private health insurance and drug companies.

[Deep13]

19. I should add that I believe in Article 6...

...of the U.S. Constitution which prohibits religious tests for public office. To the degree the candidate keeps it a private matter, I do not vote based on religion. I would rather have a liberal Mormon (not Romney), Catholic, Southern Baptist or Muslim than a Randian variety atheist.

[David Sky]

23. As an atheist, I can agree with that. But let me know

when an atheist has ever won major office as an atheist?

[Rob H.]

24. I don't

A person's religious affiliation should have sweet fuck-all to do with whether they get elected, but the reality is that every candidate (with a few non-religious exceptions) has to pander to the religious segment of this nation. "What is your favorite Bible verse?"* Who gives a shit? The more important question should be, "What makes you think you're uniquely qualified above every other candidate for president?" Instead, people look at a candidate like sociopathic fucknut G.W. Bush and vote for him because he shares the same religious views they do, and the rest of us get to endure an eight-year-long, unmitigated disaster of a presidency thanks to those dumbasses.


*Yes, that was an actual question asked by Tim Russert--at the Democratic presidential debate before the last election.

Edited for grammar.