How Can Atheists Console Religious Believers?

[rug]

Adam Lee on October 13, 2011, 6:41 AM

I got this e-mail from a reader, which I was asked to pass along in the hope of getting some advice:

I was raised in an Evangelical household and most of my friends and family from the early part of my life are Christians of some variety or another. They know I'm an atheist and it's not really a source of contention.

Two close friends of the family have a young child with serious health issues. They use Facebook to get out updates on the child's health and medical treatment. Most of their friends are also Christian, so the statuses and comments tend to look like this:

FRIEND: is XYZ. Things are looking .
Comment #1: Praying!
Comment #2: Lifting up in prayer!
Comment #3: We have an awesome God, HE WILL NOT FAIL
Comment #4: Praying for you guys!
Comment #5: Praying!
(etc. for dozens more comments)

I never really know how to respond. I want to respond and show that I care about them and their family. But I'm not really sure how to express this in a way that is not lame. "Good luck," "best wishes," "thinking about you," might be great in a card but look really stupid and out of place in a sea of religious language, promises to pray, and in the midst of what is essentially part of their spiritual community. Is there a good response in this case? If so, what? I am reconciled to the possibility that there is nothing I could say that would both preserve my own integrity and also express my concern in a way that would be meaningful to these friends. But if the gallery has any insight, please share.

Here's what I think about this dilemma: I agree that a single non-religious statement of consolation looks weird and out of place in a sea of religious fluff. But - and call me a grouch if you must - is it really necessary to reply through Facebook at all? I doubt you'll be thought of as any less a friend if you don't post something in response to their every status update.

What if, instead, you send them a phone call or a card, or even an e-mail, every few weeks or every month, just to let them know you're still keeping up with how things are going? That approach has the advantage that you can express your sympathy without religious language, and it won't look so strange if it's not surrounded by well-meaning but ineffective prayers and other superstitious gobbledegook.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/40637

[darkstar3]

1. Yet another example of how religion permeates our society, and affects non-believers everyday.

Advocates for silence, take note.

[laconicsax]

4. +1

[WolverineDG]

10. Nothing wrong with replying "Wishing you well"

even if everyone else is "offending" you by offering their prayers to another in need.

Because we all know, it's all about YOU, not the person in need.

dg

[Goblinmonger]

14. No, you don't understand the atheist position at all here.

It's not about the religious statements offending us. It is about being in an awkward position and not knowing what to say. As a believer, perhaps you can help shed some light on this issue rather than just jump on the "atheists suck" wagon. What should the non-religious do when they want to let the person know they care in the midst of religious language? What statement or phrase would not come across as "I'm a dick" but still stay in line with our non-belief?

[WolverineDG]

16. No, I understand it quite well

All the focus is on you, how YOU feel, instead of on the person needing some moral support. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like "I hope all goes well" or "I'm thinking of you" instead of something "offensive" like "praying for you. Until I read this rather self-centered OP, it never even occurred to me, as someone who believes in a Higher Power, that I should be offended if someone says something like that, instead of "I'm praying for you."

And btw, anyone who does jump on you for saying "I'm thinking of you" instead "I'm praying for you" should & will most likely get jumped on themselves for being an asshat. Because, again, the focus is on the person needing the support, NOT anyone else.

dg

[Goblinmonger]

18. Personally, this issue doesn't bother me.

And I'm really not trying to be a dick to you. I just think that too many people don't see how "everywhere" religion is. I know the example in the OP says his family knows he is an atheist, but that's not always the case. I live in a locale and work in a profession where I don't feel comfortable being open about my atheism. Not a lot of people know. So when I get put in a situation like this, it IS difficult. It's not easy to just put something into the mix that isn't like the rest and not feel like you stick out, especially if you are still in the closet. And it isn't about someone "jumping" on me, but it's about perception. It's about what they are going to think about you. It's about if they are going to "know."

[darkstar3]

21. I count two wild assumptions there.

I never said there was anything wrong with "wishing you well". In fact, I said nothing about what responses would and would not be appropriate.

I never said these people were "offending" me.

I had a very simple point. Religion is pervasive, and it affects everyone in our society, yet there are those like you who say that non-believers shouldn't even have an opinion on religion.

Thank you, though, for taking note. You are a member of my target audience.

[NMMNG]

2. How about

"Wishing you and your child well, let me know if there's anything else I can do to help."

[notadmblnd]

3. I usually just offer to help them.

I'm so sorry for your loss. If there's anything that I can do for you, please let me know.

And the most important thing- is to mean it.

[Nye Bevan]

5. The traditional DU euphemism for "prayer" is "good vibes". (nt)

[qb]

6. I wonder who's unrec'in this thread, a sincere request for advice on consoling someone in pain.

I usually go with "thinking of you" and wishes for recovery when appropriate.

[cleanhippie]

7. My reply: I won't pray for you, but I will do something actually helpful to you.

What can I lend a hand with?

[rurallib]

8. I have no problem saying "we are thinking of you" or "hoping for the best"

[WolverineDG]

11. I don't see the big deal either

So go ahead & say "Wishing you well" or "hoping for the best."

dg

[Rowdyboy]

9. Who would reject good wishes no matter how they are expressed?

The intent is the same regardless of the frame of reference of the person wishing someone else well.

Express what you feel-that's all that matters.

[Ron Goetz]

12. Speaking the Language of the Person You're Trying to Help

This person has become a skeptic. There's a place for skeptics in the church. What most people don't know is that there is one book in the Bible written by someone who was such a skeptic that most evangelicals disavow the reliability of the book. That book is Ecclesiastes, usually attributed to Solomon.

Set an hour aside to read Ecclesiastes through in one sitting. I'm sure it'll suprise you. The author was...cynical? realistic? jaded? But his book is in the Bible despite its thoroughly skeptical tone. This first example is probably the most shocking.

Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth? (3:19-22)

This one isn't so much skeptical as realistic. I know I get tired of meaningless chatter!

The more the words,
the less the meaning,
and how does that profit anyone? (6:11)

This one has to be one of the weirdest couple of verses in the Bible. Don't try to be too righteous, but don't be too bad, either.

Do not be overrighteous,
neither be overwise--
why destroy yourself?
Do not be overwicked,
and do nt be a fool--
why die before your time?
It is good to grasp the one
and not let go of the other.
The man who fears God will avoid all extremes. (7:16-18)

This next verse simply says, "Life is random, totally, totally random." This doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard in church.

The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all. (9:11)

This one? "God's in heaven, and you are on earth. You don't know jack. Just shut up."

God is in heaven
and you are on earth,
so let your words be few. (5:2)

"God" is mentioned a handful of times in Ecclesiastes, but not with what you'd call piety or reverence.

If you don't have access to a Bible, check out www.biblegateway.com. I use it a lot. I recommend looking up a verse or a chapter in the New International Version, English Standard Version, or New Living Translation.

How does this help the person you're talking about?

It runs something like this: "If the Bible has such a skeptical, dissenting book in it, then there's a place in the church for skeptics and dissenters like you. Whether they like it or not.

I've called myself an Ecclesiastes Christian for many years.

This person you are trying to help accepts the Bible as an authority. So use it to help him. You can be biblical without sounding like all the pious voices.

[David Sky]

13. If I were the parent of the child, I'd rather see offers of help and positive thoughts from

a friend, rather than an announcement that someone is so self-righteous as to be absorbed in futile "prayers" and simplistic wishful thinking for my child.

[MineralMan]

15. Expressing condolences, saying the people are in your thoughts,

and offers of help never come amiss. Consolation isn't something anyone else can provide. Help and concern are things anyone can provide. Religious belief needn't enter into it.

[Iggo]

17. Like everyone else does? With platitudes?

It's not what you say. It's how you say it. Or even just that you're saying it at all.

Just a simple I Love You trumps an I'm Praying For You any day of the week.

[Deep13]

19. I offer my best wishes for the person and leave it at that.

I don't offer false consolation. If nothing else, false hope just causes an big let-down when it fails to come through. Also, the transparent hypocrisy would raise more eyebrows than the lack of offered prayer.

[LeftishBrit]

20. I would just say that I'm very sorry for their loss and am thinking of them

and to let me know if there's anything that I can do.

It may be different in England, where religion is less pervasive and less vocal; but I have never found this a problem, though often it's difficult in general terms to send messages of condolence that don't come across as either empty and conventional, or over-intrusive. For that matter, I have never had a problem with anyone sending prayers to me on my loss. What I do have a bit of a problem with (personally) is 'foul-weather friends': relatives or acquaintances who *only* get in touch under such tragic circumstances. Better than fair-weather friends, but not as good as people who are with you through the good *and* bad times.

No religious person whom I know has ever had a problem with me, or anybody else, not sending prayers. But again, it's a different culture here.