another catholic priest scandal

[Liberal_in_LA]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — The Rev. Justin Hoye was struggling to figure out what, if anything, to say on Sunday to his parishioners at St. Patrick’s Catholic Church about the new turmoil facing the local Roman Catholic diocese.

Days before, news had broken that Bishop Robert Finn and the diocese had been indicted on criminal charges for failing to report a priest found to have pornographic photos of children, including children of his congregants. The priest is accused of having taken more such photographs in the months before church leaders turned them over to law enforcement.

Father Hoye, after reaching out to priests in neighboring parishes — all of whom expressed the same uncertainty — decided not to address the matter directly from the pulpit but to offer a homily on man and God that emphasized forgiveness.

“Most people are savvy enough to understand what I’m saying without having to actually say it,” he explained between morning services at St. Patrick’s. “It’s a polarizing subject and not everyone is in the same place.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/us/in-kansas-city-sermons-avoid-mention-of-abuse-scandal.html

[Name removed]

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[chollybocker]

2. "...including children of his congregants."

I hadn't heard that part yet. Sounds like major lawsuits will be forthcoming.

And another religious pedophile factory bites the dust. Good riddence, :):):):):):):):):):), fuckwads.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. yep. children of the congregants and the leaders didn't act immediately. amazing

[unionworks]

9. did you just refer to my faith

As a "pedophile factory"? If you attacked any other religion on here in such a hateful fashion, you would be banned so fucking fast your hair would blow back as you flew out the door. The percentage of pedophiles is no higher among Catholic clergy than it is among the general population. It just makes for wonderful wsensational reading and sells copy. I attended Catholic schools for 8 years and neither I nor anyone I know wasmolested by any clergy. I don't hear this kind of bigottry on here tolerated toward Jews, Muslims or anyone else and I'll. Be damned if I will listen to it without standing up to it.

[deacon_sephiroth]

13. I think "Pedophile Protection Program" would be more accurate

and if you want to stand up to something, stand up to the leadership in your faith, for thier callous inactions, croniship at the expense of the innocent, the perpetual shell-game they play with these clergy while they excommunicate pregnant teenage rape victums. I'm sorry you don't like hearing about what your church is doing but GUESS WHAT? WE DON'T LIKE HEARING ABOUT IT EITHER!

[unionworks]

73. GUESS WHAT

Therearea number of Catholics who are at odds with the church on the issuesyou mention, and are working for change. Unfortunately,your naked hostiliy has alienatedme to the point where Iam no longer interested in hearing what you have to say. Have a nice day.

[darkstar3]

79. Reviewing this thread alone,

and remembering the posts I saw from you before they became "deleted message", it seems that "naked hostility" would apply far more appropriately to you than anyone else.

[deacon_sephiroth]

82. naked hostility toward child predators, yeah, I got that

and I'm not going to stop having that anytime soon.

[rexcat]

84. Any organization that is complicit in protecting...

pedophiles or child abuse should not be allowed, by society, to be an ongoing entity. The harming of any child is not acceptable.

[cleanhippie]

28. Your "faith" is no more immune to criticism than any other idea.

What makes you think your faith should have special privilege against that?

[unionworks]

30. please see post #8

p.s.- do you know the story of the man who spit on Buddha? ;)

[cleanhippie]

39. Post #8 has nothing to do with the question I asked you.

Why does your faith (religion) deserve special protection against criticism?

[unionworks]

62. answer the question!

What is this, some kind of spanish inquisition?

[cleanhippie]

67. No, its a DISCUSSION forum, not a deflection forum. How 'bout you try some discussion

instead of making snarky remarks.

[unionworks]

69. NOBODY

"EXPECTS the SPANISH INQUSITION! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[cleanhippie]

75. NOBODY

takes you seriously.

[unionworks]

76. really?

Farm out, man. Peoplewho take themselves too seriously are usually....

[unionworks]

77. don't worry!

Everything is allright, uptight, and out of state!!!:hippie: :headbang: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[deacon_sephiroth]

83. I think your brain just broke. n/t

[unionworks]

68. Snark?

On D.U.? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya!!!

[Thats my opinion]

36. But won't you agree

that wherever it occurs, it is wrong? The problem here is not only that there was serious molestation, but that the Bishop not only knew it but put the priest in a position where he could continue to abuse.That does not call into question all of good things about Catholics, nor does it suggest this is more than a tiny minority of priests and bishops, but only cite a worm in the stew.

[cleanhippie]

45. "a worm in the stew" - Seriously?

:rofl:


Wow, dude. Wow.

[unionworks]

47. agree

wrong is wrong. But posting a hit piece 8 times and the hate I am hearing here suggests another agenda entirely.

[demosincebirth]

4. This has already been post about 8-9 times here on DU. I guess you

want to get your licks in too.

[darkstar3]

5. But it's all good if someone wants to post multiple opinion pieces on the same elevator story?

I don't recall you calling "dupe" or referring to the posters of those threads as antagonists.

[demosincebirth]

32. Elevator story ? what are you talking about?

[unionworks]

10. thank you

For pointing that out. The Priests and Nuns I have known were wonderful people. In some cases, such as South America in the 80s, and other times in history, they sacrificed their lives for human rights and social justice. The Benedictine Sisters here in Erie were THE motivating force behind the anti war movement and still are. Many of these compassionate people did missionary work in some of the poorest, most dangerous places on earth because they were moved by their faith to share their love with "the least of these". Catholic Nuns have been at the forefront of the fight to abolish the death penalty, as in "Dead Man Walking". And because of the actions of a handful of sick people, my fellow DUers spit on them.It's O.K.. They would just tell me to pray for you.

[demosincebirth]

35. Here, they only post the wrong that the church has done in

the last 2000yrs. And believe me, they don't miss a stride. And never about the good it does around them. They seem to be blind to those issues, many like the ones you mentioned.

[Thats my opinion]

38. Contrary to some of the others who post here

I support and celebrate the significant witness of Catholics here and in other parts of the world. Don't be put off by the handful who delight in condemning all religion. My suggestion is you begin a series of posts highlighting the powerful things your church has and is doing.m Next week I'm writing about Bishop Dom Helder Camera and after that about Bishop Osacar Romeno. Get your oar in the water

[unionworks]

50. Oars Manned!

And you won't see me posting hit pieces about other religions or groups. I feel much better posting on D.U. about the good people do. And not just Catholics.

[unionworks]

6. so every time

You see a sex scandal involving clergy of ANY faith, you post it on D.U., RIGHT? What? Only Catholics? That's what I thought. LA liberal? Are you sure you aren't in Belfast?

[TheMadMonk]

8. The scandal IS NOT the sex. The scandal is the failure to report.

It's the fresh coverup coming on top of Church's very recent promise to comply with mandatory reporting laws.

[unionworks]

7. no nerve struck

Just please refer me to the sex scandals involving other faiths that you have posted on DU so I can read them! I will applaud you. If there are none, it is difficult for me to see you as anything other than a religious bigot.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[skepticscott]

41. Yes, the Catholic Church

has had charming ways of dealing with its supposed enemies all through history. And no doubt you are proud of all of them.

[unionworks]

48. PROUD MEMBER

ERIE PA DIVISION

You have an Irish problem too?

WHAT IS THE ANCIENT ORDER OF HIBERNIANS?


The Ancient Order of Hibernians is a Catholic, Irish American Fraternal Organization founded simultaneously in New York City and Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania in May of 1836. The Order can trace its roots back to a parent organization, of the same name, which has existed in Ireland for over 300 years. However, while the organizations share a common thread, the North American A.O.H. is a separate and much larger organization.

The Order evolved from a need in the early sixteen hundreds to protect the lives of priests who risked immediate death to keep the Catholic Faith alive in occupied Ireland after the reign of England's King Henry VIII. When England implemented its dreaded Penal Laws in Ireland, various secret social societies were formed across the country. These groups worked to aid and comfort the people by whatever means available. Similarly, the Ancient Order of Hibernians in America was founded May 4th, 1836 at New York’s St. James Church, to protect the clergy, and Church property from the "Know Nothings" and their followers. At the same time the vast influx of Irish Immigrants fleeing famine issues in Ireland in the late 1840's, prompted a growth of various social societies in the USA - the largest of which was, and continues to be, the Ancient Order of Hibernians.

[skepticscott]

52. Seems it's you who has the problem

needing to invent enemies and falsely attribute attitudes in order to accomplish it. You are indeed a good Catholic.

Seems you couldn't keep me off of your ignore list either...

[unionworks]

57. i don't remember

Telling you I wanted you on my ignore list. Believe that was meant for a different poster. You are at least semi-civil. The other poter was not. By the way, ever hear of the Molly McGuires in the labor movement? They were acctually AOH members. They were hanged for organizing.

[skepticscott]

72. See your post #16, which was a direct response to me

And yes, I've heard of the Molly McGuires. What they have to do with child rape, covering up and abetting child rape, kidnapping, human trafficking, and the legion of other crimes committed by the Catholic Church is still a mystery.

[Name removed]

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[unionworks]

16. BTW Welcome

to my ignore list. and alerted, too.

[Name removed]

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[deacon_sephiroth]

12. what's your point?

That it's not WRONG any more, just because we hear about it SO OFTEN?

Or perhaps, that the lack of this sort of thinig coming out of every other denomination is simply BIAS?

It sounds a lot like you're trying to imply that it's not a catholic problem, it's the OP's problem, shoot the messenger?

Here's a tip.... if you want to stop seeing stories about Catholic priests being disgusting, depraved, child molesting, kiddie porno-swapping, perverse old men, then write to them and tell them TO STOP BETRAYING THE TRUST PLACED IN THEM BY THE CHILDREN AND PARENTS OF THE WORLD EVERY DAY!!!!"

I dunno, just thinking out loud, maybe address the PROBLEM, not the person pointing out the VERY OLD, VERY PERSISTENT, VERY REAL PROBLEM.

[unionworks]

15. Just asking

why only abuse by Catholic clergy seems to tickle your prurient interest. Gee, I see stories of teachers having relations with students, lots of other faiths with sex scandals, politicians galore, but you are only interested in demonizing Catholics, all of them, because of a handful of people.

[Goblinmonger]

27. What happens when a teacher abuses a child?

They get fired and they have criminal charges. What happens when a priest in the not so distant past abuses a child? They get a new job in a new parish and things are covered up so there are no charges. See the difference.

And here's the kicker that REALLY pisses me off. What happens when it actually does come out and the abused sues the church? The church declares bankruptcy (while the Pope sits on billions of dollars of art and other artifacts) so that they don't have to pay any money.

Show me a religion that has had THAT level of institutional cover up for abuse (and at very high levels--the current Pope was part of the cover up when he was #2 guy) and then we can have a discussion of whether it's unfair to point out the RCC and it's abuse problems.

[EvilAL]

44. I don't care what religion you practice

child rape is child rape. If you won't stand up for the victims as a member of the church you certainly cannot say fuck all to anybody bashing your faith and you don't deserve any respect.

[unionworks]

21. Trying not to puke

Romero was shot on 24 March 1980, while celebrating Mass at a small chapel located in a hospital called "La Divina Providencia", one day after a sermon where he had called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights. According to an audio-recording of the Mass, he was shot while elevating the chalice at the end of the Eucharistic rite. When he was shot, his blood spilled over the altar along with the contents of the chalice.

[cleanhippie]

29. Considering just how many responses you have made, yes, this struck a nerve.

And ignoring the problem of child-rape and the institutional protection provided to the rapists by the catholic church will not make it go away.

[Name removed]

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[Liberal_in_LA]

33. I hear ya.

[skepticscott]

40. When we see a sex scandal from another faith

in which hundreds if not thousands of children were raped and otherwise sexually molested over the course of decades if not centuries, in which the church hierarchy not only covered up the crimes and shielded the perpetrators from just punishment, but abetted the continuation of those crimes by transferring the rapists to new posts without telling anyone of their history, where this was known, acknowledged and supported by the church hierarchy up the the very highest levels, and where the church in the midst of all this had the temerity to dictate morality to the entire world, then we'll do that. Until then, we'll feel free to point out the crimes of the Catholic Church as morally reprehensible, and not excused at all by saying "everyone else is doing it too".

[unionworks]

61. hundred if not thousands?

How many of these cases have been prosecuted worldwide? Less than a hundred? Less than 50? Please document. But you can use the tactic of the inquisitor to say you know of "thousands of witches, across the centuries"! Monty python comes to mind.

[trotsky]

85. Even if it were just one child, it would be bad enough what your church did to cover it up.

But we know it was far, far more than one. And given the rarity of sex crimes being reported - especially by children who are intimidated by the authority figure involved - I don't see how you could trivialize these crimes. You insult all the victims.

[skepticscott]

86. Why is it more important

how many cases have resulted in convictions than how many children were actually raped and molested?

Oh...yeah...that's why.

[Name removed]

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[trotsky]

23. No one is denying that your church does some good.

But does that somehow "cancel out" the long-standing policies of protecting pedophile priests and providing them access to fresh victims? That's what you seem to be arguing.

[unionworks]

26. Thank You

I have no problem discussing with a reasonable poster. That is not what I felt coming from some of the others. Yes it is a horrible problem, and needs to be addressed and remedied. Yes, it has been terribly handled. Yes, when mentioned it is a source of shame, but for those who commit these acts and for those who cover it up. It should not be used to paint all Catholics with a broad brush of hate.

[demosincebirth]

37. They paint with a wide brush here when it come to Christianity and the Catholic Church. The very

liberal,caring and understanding turn into vicious anti-Catholics here.

[Name removed]

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[unionworks]

19. The "Worst"

Óscar RomeroFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
The Most Reverend
Óscar Romero
Archbishop of San Salvador

See San Salvador
Enthroned 23 February 1977
Reign ended 24 March 1980
Predecessor Luis Chávez
Successor Arturo Rivera
Other posts Bishop of Santiago de María (1974-77)
Auxiliary Bishop of San Salvador (1970-74)
Orders
Ordination 4 April 1942
Consecration 21 June 1970
Personal details
Born 15 August 1917(1917-08-15)
Ciudad Barrios, El Salvador
Died 24 March 1980(1980-03-24) (aged 62)
San Salvador
Buried San Salvador Cathedral
Denomination Catholic
Parents Santos Romero and Guadalupe de Jésus Galdámez
Sainthood
Feast day Anglican: 24 March
Venerated in Anglican Communion

This name uses Spanish naming customs; the first or paternal family name is Romero and the second or maternal family name is Galdámez.
Óscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez (15 August 1917 – 24 March 1980)<1> was a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in El Salvador. He became the fourth Archbishop of San Salvador, succeeding Luis Chávez. He was assassinated on 24 March 1980.

After his assassination, Romero was succeeded by Monsignor Arturo Rivera. In 1997, a cause for beatification and canonization into sainthood was opened for Romero, and Pope John Paul II bestowed upon him the title of Servant of God. The canonization process continues.<2> He is considered by some the unofficial patron saint of the Americas and El Salvador and is often referred to as "San Romero" by Catholics in El Salvador. Outside of Catholicism, Romero is honored by other religious denominations of Christendom, including the Church of England through the Calendar in Common Worship. He is one of the ten 20th century martyrs who are depicted in statues above the Great West Door of Westminster Abbey in London, a testament to his wide respect even beyond the Catholic Church.<3> In 2008, he was chosen as one of the 15 Champions of World Democracy by the Europe-based magazine A Different View.<4>

[unionworks]

20. Even worser

In less than three years, more than fifty priests have been attacked, threatened and slandered. Six of them are martyrs, having been assassinated; various others have been tortured, and others expelled from the country. Religious women have also been the object of persecution. The archdiocesan radio station, Catholic educational institutions and Christian religious institutions have been constantly attacked, menaced, threatened with bombs. Various parish

[unionworks]

22. Anti Death Penalty?

Really, now? Ever gone to dearth row to console the inmates? EVER WATCHED AN EXECUTION?

"Sister Helen Prejean:
The Real Woman Behind

A remarkable chain
of events led her to
become a Death Row
counselor. Now
Sister Helen's story
is playing on movie
screens throughout
the world in one of
the most acclaimed
films of the year.



By John Bookser Feister



PHOTO (C) 1996 BRAD SMITH
(Above) Sister Helen's cross was a gift from a condemned, now dead, man. He sold his blood plasma to buy it for her.


Road to the Oscars
Smothered With Love
Sister(s) Helen on the Set
Sarandon on Prejean Writing the Script
The Death Penalty Considered
On-time Landings

A dying man is alone, except for the love of a Catholic sister. He is a castaway, considered untouchable and worthy of death by his society. The nun comforts him and says, "I can't bear the thought that you would die without seeing one loving face. I will be the face of Christ for you." She is Sister Helen Prejean, a Sister of St. Joseph of Medaille. He is one of four convicted of murder whom she has accompanied to the death chamber in Louisiana.
You could call her the Mother Teresa of Death Row. She would argue the point. "I kind of speed a lot and get tickets," Sister Helen admits, and she is an outspoken critic of politicians and the legal system. She likes to argue. She cracks jokes. She doesn't wear a habit. But she has a heart big enough for everyone: She counsels and prays the rosary with victims' families. She looks after the needs of convicts' families. And she never knew what she was getting into when she made a simple decision, in her 40's, to dedicate her life to the poor. "

[unionworks]

24. Anti War - or Anti Catholic?

"Introduction
In 2002, the presidents of Federations of Benedictine Women and Congregations of Benedictine Men composed a statement of concern about the impending plans of the U.S. administration to begin a preemptive war against Iraq.
At the meeting of presidents in October 2004, we decided another statement was needed in response to consequences of what has happened since then. On the first statement we received literally thousands of signatures in support and invite signatures to this statement as well.

The Benedictine Peace Statement 2005 was sent to President Bush and to Dr. Condoleezza Rice on 21 March 2005 with 2,357 signatures from Benedictine men and women and Oblates of Saint Benedict and others.


The Statement
In fall 2002, Benedictine men and women in the United States presented a statement opposing the proposed and unprecedented pre-emptive attack against the people of Iraq. Today more than ever do we see that violence and war do not lead to peace. Thousands of vulnerable people in Iraq have died or been displaced from their homes, resulting in an increase in terrorism and a destabilization that threatens continued violence in this world.

As Benedictine men and women, we reverence the Gospel of Jesus Christ who is called the "Prince of Peace". Our Benedictine manner of following the gospel has continued for 1500 years through faithfulness to this gospel, which teaches us to be just to all, receiving all as Christ, and welcoming especially the poor, the sick and all who are needy. "

[Name removed]

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[moobu2]

31. This Bishop Finn character may have breached a multi million dollar settlement

Meaning, in 2008 as part of a lawsuit settlement he and the diocese and 47 victims agreed that some system of reporting abuse would be instituted to insure there wouldn't be anymore children sexually abused by Catholic priests, and later hurt by the system etc... Finn and possibly others in the church knew about the child porn and allowed the priest to continue working around small children. This breach may cost the diocese tons of money over and above the previous $10,000,000 settlement. Sounds like a real problem for them.

Read this portion of this article.

The new lawsuit alleges that the diocese broke the settlement agreement by failing for almost a year to report allegations and concerns about Ratigan to police; withholding evidence of possible child pornography from law enforcement for months; leaving another credibly accused priest in a parish for nearly two years; and keeping no records of abuse reports to law enforcement. The suit cites numerous examples from the Graves investigation, which in August found that diocesan leaders failed to follow their own policies and procedures in responding to reports of child sexual abuse.

The investigation reported that “individuals in positions of authority reacted to events in ways that could have jeopardized the safety of children in diocesan parishes, schools and families.”

LiNk

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. uh oh n/t

[LAGC]

43. Looks like another Catholic diocese is going bankrupt and will be shutting churches down.

What a shame.

[unionworks]

46. Catholic Church

...has been around for about 1,500 years. "Christian Evangelicals" have been around since what, about 1910? I think we'll survive.thank you for your "concern". :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[darkstar3]

54. Population growth is stagnating, and far more Catholics have rejected the Papal view on BC.

Don't count your fetuses before they're born.

[unionworks]

51. Supporting OWS?

"Leaders representing different faiths helped usher a "golden calf"… (Aaron Showalter for News)Faith leaders join call of Occupy Wall Street protesters, find link between religion and movement
ALBOR RUIZ - NY LOCAL
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, October 12, 2011
Some have called it "a sideshow" to the real-life drama taking place in Zuccotti Park.

But the Rev. Donna Schaper and the faith leaders who have rallied around the Occupy Wall Street movement, say their involvement is as solid as their religious beliefs.

Schaper, senior minister at Judson Memorial Church, thinks the time has come for faith communities to join the voices protesting the scandalous corporate greed and income inequality affecting 99% of Americans.

"Some say faith leaders should stay out of this," said Schaper. "But actually every faith gives preference to the poor. The Hebrew and the Christian scriptures are full of warnings about the acquisition of wealth to the harm of others and of the requirement that the poor and dispossessed be cared for.""

[skepticscott]

53. Nice that they're joining in

on what secular forces have already started. For all of your puffery, you'd think they would have kicked it off.

[NMMNG]

55. Give them time

They'll be claiming it was all masterminded and run by Christians.

[darkstar3]

56. And it'll be Fox News who first breaks the story, as such:

"Occupy Wall Street: Actually a religious movement?"

[unionworks]

58. gee that's strange

I saw another piece on here where the posters were cheering the religious leaders for joining OWS! Guess you guys are just an anti religious disgruntled minority. Thanks for showing me there really is a God. You can'thate something that doesn't exist. And by the way - "domine domine domine. You're all Catholics now"! (Firesign Theatre). :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[darkstar3]

60. Joining, not co-opting.

As for the rest of your post, I think you need to enroll in a few more language and logic classes.

[unionworks]

64. why would that be?

Did I stutter?

[unionworks]

71. As For

The rest of my post, you might ask some of you older brothers and sisters on D.U. to tell you who "Firesign Theatre" is. Hint- they would have to be old enough to remember Vietnam.

[unionworks]

74. OWS

Gets its principles of nonviolence and civil disobedience from a religious movement started by a guy named Ghandi. Same with the civil rights movement. Which, incidentally,wasstarted by a group of black Baptists.

[darkstar3]

78. Revisionist claptrap.

OWS has as much to do with Ghandi as your ability to read English has to do with Shakespeare.

[unionworks]

80. funny thing

I've read. So many people actually at wall street quoting Ghandi. How does that go..."first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"... sounds like you are the one revising the facts to fit your opinion.

[unionworks]

81. OWS

...is wise to avoid wedge issues. Brilliant strategy. Apparently there are loonies on BOTH sides of the abortion issue.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[unionworks]

66. problem solved n/t