Catholicism steals a generation of Spanish children

[cleanhippie]

300,000 babies stolen from their parents - and sold for adoption: Haunting BBC documentary exposes 50-year scandal of baby trafficking by the Catholic church in Spain. Up to 300,000 Spanish babies were stolen from their parents and sold for adoption over a period of five decades, a new investigation reveals. The children were trafficked by a secret network of doctors, nurses, priests and nuns in a widespread practice that began during General Franco’s dictatorship and continued until the early Nineties.

Hundreds of families who had babies taken from Spanish hospitals are now battling for an official government investigation into the scandal. Several mothers say they were told their first-born children had died during or soon after they gave birth. But the women, often young and unmarried, were told they could not see the body of the infant or attend their burial.

In reality, the babies were sold to childless couples whose devout beliefs and financial security meant that they were seen as more appropriate parents.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html#ixzz1b5gzLtgj

------------------------------------------------------

Is there no END to the crimes committed against humanity by the Catholic Church? How do adherents to that faith CONTINUE to support it?

[pnwmom]

1. Not the religion. Some individuals in the religion. It makes no more sense

to blame all Catholics for this than to blame all Spaniards. (The vast majority of Spanish people during that period were Catholic.)

[darkstar3]

3. And yet it happened all over the world. Odd, that.

[pnwmom]

4. Links? n/t

[peace frog]

5. Forced adoptions of Irish children in Australia

Catholic Church apologizes for ‘pain’ caused by ‘forced adoption’ in Australia
Horrifying practice continued for decades


More than 150,000 young women across Australia had their children taken from them at birth without their consent, a new documentary has shown.

An investigation into the practice by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) has uncovered how for years young and usually unmarried women were subjected to forced adoptions in Catholic-run hospitals that resulted in them never seeing their child again.

Many interviewees told ABC they had their legs shackled and were drugged during their labour. The majority were prevented from seeing their children being born or even holding them afterwards.

Many of the women said they believed their children had been selected for forced adoption long before their birth and they were warned they could not oppose the decision

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Catholic-Church-apologizes-for-pain-caused-by-forced-adoption-in-Australia.html

[pnwmom]

8. Unfortunately, this was also carried out by government agencies.

Apparently it was a fairly common practice during that time.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-10-20/call-for-federal-inquiry-into-forced-adoptions/2304624?section=justin

[peace frog]

42. Common or not, it was the Catholic Church that stole the children

from their rightful parents.

[pnwmom]

10. The government of Western Australia has made a similar apology

since government agencies were also involved in this.

[darkstar3]

7. Here in this thread we have two countries on two different continents.

There was another thread not long ago about Catholics forcing adoptions in Australia, which I can't find, but here's a link to a story:
http://news.change.org/stories/child-trafficking-survivors-sue-catholic-religious-orders

There are claims that it has happened right here in the USA:
http://www.childrensprotection.info/2011/07/orphan-train-catholic-church-child.html

Seems to be a world-wide phenomenon to me.

[David Sky]

43. ONE SINGLE UNIFYING ELEMENT in ALL 3 STORIES: The CHURCH!

Those folks have NO SHAME! And, I'm willing to bet that there was money exchanged for these "services" of providing richer stable heterosexual couples with children, money that went to THE CHURCH!

[cleanhippie]

6. Yes, the religion.

The catholic religion and the catholic religious institution are one and the same.

[pnwmom]

9. Nothing in the religion called for this. It was individuals who made these decisions,

not the Church as a whole.

[darkstar3]

11. A large network of individuals within the church, according to the stories.

I wonder where they found the common cause, the access, and the resources...

[pnwmom]

12. And a network of individuals in the state of Western Australia.

And that's just the first state to make an apology.

This seems to be a fault of "Christians" in general, not just Catholics.

[darkstar3]

13. I didn't see any other "Christians in general" involved.

What I saw was the result of the Australian government's social services with the Catholic Church.

You can keep trying to spread the blame, but the stories that continue to come out do not support your attempt.

[pnwmom]

18. The Australian government was just as responsible.

None of this was happening without their approval.

[darkstar3]

22. And? How does that matter in any way?

[pnwmom]

31. Why wouldn't it matter to you that the government was also responsible?

Does the government get a free pass on this , while all the blame goes to the entire Catholic Church -- rather than to the individuals, in government and in the Church, who were actually involved?

[darkstar3]

35. Because it was the religious reasons that were cited as grounds for doing such things.

It was the unification of religion and government that provided the shady network necessary to perform the abductions.

And this is the R/T forum, in a thread where the Catholic Church and its hypocrisy are the topic at hand. That they needed the Australian government's help is beside the point. "Look over there!" is an uninteresting contribution.

[pnwmom]

41. This crime happened in a context.

The context was the larger world that supported this crime. Both the individuals involved and those who supported them -- within the Church and within the government -- were guilty.

[David Sky]

44. In other words, certain state governments around the world ALLOWED the CHURCH

to do this!

So who benefits? Shake your finger at corrupt politicians all you want. The church came up with the scheme and carried it out on at least two continents and the British Isles!

So you blame those few governments who let this happen more than the vast international organization called the Catholic church?

WHY?

[pnwmom]

46. This didn't only happen in Catholic agencies, except in countries

like Spain that were overwhelmingly Catholic.

For example, it was a governmental policy in Australia to put Aboriginal and mixed race children into white homes.

There was a common belief that children would be better off if removed from what were perceived to be less than optimal homes. This was not just a view of some Catholics.

[customerserviceguy]

2. They did the same thing in French Canada

from 1935-1965. I know, I was one who this happened to.

As to how they keep their hold on people, believe me, it's tough as hell to break free mentally. But it's soooooo damned worth it.

[humblebum]

14. How you can so easily brush aside all the horrors that organized state

atheism inflicted on the world and brazenly criticize another group is contemptible.

[darkstar3]

15. I'm sure there are many reasons, cheif among them that you're talking about Communism.

[humblebum]

16. I guess you could say that if they were all communists, but they weren't. nt

[darkstar3]

17. So I assume you have proof of atrocities committed by atheists outside

of totalitarian Communist regimes, yes?

[humblebum]

19. Well, The cult of Reason was not communist, and the atheist organizations

inside the communist states had the support of many outside organizations that were not communist.

[darkstar3]

21. The Cult of Reason during the French Revolution was far more than atheism.

They deified Reason as if it were force all its own, encouraged congregational worship of it, and set themselves up in direct opposition to Catholicism and all other religions.

SkepticScott could tell you more about anti-theism vs. atheism.

As for your claims about things happening in the Communist states, you and I both know that any external support disappeared post haste when word of the mass murder made it out of the borders. What you forget is that Communism seemed like a good idea to a lot of people when it first started, and they all abandoned it when they saw how easy it was to abuse and how egregious the abuses were.

[humblebum]

23. They were absolutely godless. totally atheist and anti-theist. nt

[darkstar3]

24. Reason was their god.

They used double-speak in a lame attempt to hide it, but Reason was definitely their god.

Keep spinnin' that record if you want, but nobody's dancin'.

[humblebum]

25. No moreso than reason is your god. nt

[darkstar3]

26. Yeah. Do some reading. Even a cursory glance at their history will show they deified reason.

[humblebum]

27. No moreso than the de-baptism ceremonies of atheists today, and

of course there is the landover baptist church. They (the cult) were atheists, antitheists and NOT Communists.

Also, "The League of Militant Atheists comprised workers, peasants, students, and members of the intelligentsia ... ... maintained extensive international ties; it belonged to the International of Proletarian Freethinkers, and then to the World Union of Freethinkers. In 1947 the league turned over its tasks of disseminating scientific-atheist propaganda to Znanie (Knowledge), a newly created all-Union society.

REFERENCES
Konovalov, B. N. “Soiuz voinstvuiushchikh bezbozhnikov.” In the collection Voprosy nauchnogo ateizma, no. 4. Moscow, 1967.
Konovalov, B. N. K massovomu ateizmu. Moscow, 1974.

[darkstar3]

28. Now you're just grasping at straws. Go read about what Landover really is.

As for the League, it's not an answer to my challenge.

[humblebum]

29. It is a spoof on religion just as the cult of reason's so called religion was.

Reason was never considered to be anything supernatural as you are implying. They claimed to be atheists, probably because they WERE atheists and very anti-theist, proven by their actions of openly and gaudily mocking religion.

OH YEH! And they weren't communists either. Now you'll probably claim they weren't atheists - they were French. But they did contribute to a legacy - The Paris Commune, which heavily influenced both Marx and Lenin.

[darkstar3]

30. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Landover Baptist is just like the Cult of Reason...:spray::rofl:

That's the funniest thing you've ever posted. I'm crying from laughing so hard.

[humblebum]

33. Very much the 18th century French version of it. AND

they weren't communists.

[darkstar3]

36. Please elaborate, because I predict this will be side-bustingly funny:

What, exactly, do you think the Landover Baptist Church is?

[humblebum]

37. The only elaboration I'll make is that this is one of your most

blatant straw men ever. Both churches are/were parodies of the religion of the day.

[darkstar3]

38. LOL

Oh I love Poe's Law.

[humblebum]

39. When you are out of arguments, you always scurry for the memes. nt

[humblebum]

40. deleted

[cleanhippie]

45. It never ceases to amaze me at just how ignorant your posts can get.

I would love to have this conversation with you IRL with a group of people, just to see the look on their faces if you said the things you post. It would be a giant group WTF?

:rofl:

[humblebum]

47. I would expect nothing less from you. nt

[cleanhippie]

48. What does tha even mean? You make less and less sense as the days go by.

It's sad to watch.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. This was also done by the Argentine generals to children of political prisoners in the 1970s

Sometimes pregnant women were arrested. They were kept alive until they gave birth, their babies were given to "politically correct" families to raise, and then the mothers were killed.

Thanks to DNA testing, a lot of grandparents are now finding their lost grandchildren.

During World War II, the Nazis took blond children away from Eastern European and Russian families, claiming that they were actually "Aryans" who had somehow gotten misplaced. They gave them to staunch Nazis to raise.

I'm not trying to excuse what the Catholic Church did, but they were far from the only ones.

[pnwmom]

32. It seemed to have been a common practice for decades.

I'm wondering if this has been a common practice, in one way or another, through the ages.

[ButterflyBlood]

34. I have a huge problem reading stories like this

Because they opened some deep wounds and a lot of deep seeded anger I have for Catholicism I've been trying to overcome. My upbringing didn't involve any atrocities like this, but it showed me the church clearly wasn't a force for good or doing God's will. Unfortunately it hasn't done me any good being consumed by hate and it's clearly not a Christian way to think even if the Catholic church is being more un-Christian. So really harsh to read beyond the obvious reasons.

[deacon_sephiroth]

49. when I read the title

all I could think was "I'll be surprised if that's ALL the Catholic church did to a generation of spanish children."

Isn't that telling... that a headline about Catholics KIDNAPPING hundreds of THOUSANDS of babies doesn't surprise me. In fact I'm waiting for the OTHER shoe to drop. A sign of the times, and the trends from this cult of morbid, cynical, aging pedophiles.

Imagine, a NETWORK of doctors, nuns, priests, ALL PEOPLE you are supposed to trust not to lie and steal, and they are taking people's babies and telling them THEY ARE DEAD.

There is no defense of these actions, no denials, no washing your hands of it. Once again, good people doing evil things... it takes religion.

[David Sky]

50. "Once again, good people doing evil things... it takes religion."

And those who adhere to that religion, it hardly makes a difference to them, they just move on, and forget about it! Like it never REALLY happened. OR to imagine that some OTHER group of people were equally involved, and thus they are blameless! Part of their religion to think that way!