Politics and the bugnut Christians

[SecularMotion]

Because I wrote a book with "Atheist" in the subtitle and I go on political TV shows to hawk that book, well-groomed meat puppets frequently ask me why politicians like Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry are saying bugnutty Christian stuff.

I have an idea why these politicians have gone all religious, but I haven't found a way to explain it in a sound bite, which is why I'm writing this. I think the whole problem comes down to the word "Christian" and what it has come to mean in my lifetime.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/02/opinion/la-oe-jillette-christian-20111002

[David Sky]

1. Thanks for that! Good read.

Those Republicans, always using somebody to get what they want, this time it's the Christians they are using.

[Tesha]

2. It's a synergistic effect.

Christian fundamentalist preachers have made names
for themselves and often, small or even large personal
fortunes preaching a "Levitticus" version of the Bible.

Republican politicians have learned that these folks are
credulous and easily persuaded to vote for politicians who
claim to support those "Levitticus" values.

So Christian preachers have essentially decided to endorse
those politicians and the cycle feeds on itself as each group
becomes ever-more extreme.

Essentially, "Republicans are elected by voters who believe
in God, Guns, Greed, and hatred of Gays and Gynes".

Tesha

[David Sky]

3. Interesting perspective ! Depressing but insightful! n/t

[Warpy]

4. The more that corrupt politicians embrace the word "Christian,"

the more young people are starting to abandon it. Even believers are loath to self identify as Christians since the ugly coalition between televangelists and their followers and right wing government has become a known quantity. Sensible people want absolutely no part of it, and since all Christians are being unfairly lumped into that coalition, they've abandoned self identification as such.

50 years ago, the word implied a certain standard of ethical behavior that all people who identified with it at least attempted to achieve. Then came the televangelists pushing a particularly unholy combination of Southern Baptistry, Dispensationalist Calvinism and prosperity theology and even the pretense of trying to emulate Christ's ideals of tolerance and charity was abandoned. Once you were "saved," you could do any horrible thing to other people here on earth that you wanted, your ticket to heaven was punched.

The past 40 years have damaged the brand name horribly. I sincerely hope that isn't the case permanently, and I hope the mainstream religious figures at long last repudiate the nonsense coming from the pompadoured frauds on "Christian" television and their pet politicians. It's overdue.

[Kurmudgeon]

5. The way the word has been corrupted seems demonic.

Whether that is from infernal sources or just more common human desires to deceive, it works out the same.

[cleanhippie]

7. Demonic? Infernal forces?

:rofl:

Wow!

[Kurmudgeon]

9. You won't be laughing if one of those boys or girls gets ahold of you.

The way I see it is human inspiration is and can be every bit as diabolical as anything in Dante's Inferno.
But keep laughing, maybe you'll meet one of these folks some day, but it may not be so funny then.
Don't believe in evil? Do you even read the news?

[cleanhippie]

11. Perhaps, but right now I'm laughing my ass off.

Thanks to your posts.

[Kurmudgeon]

14. That's ok, you've given me something to smirk at too.

[cleanhippie]

15. Oh, we all know how you smirk at the rest of us.

Thanks to your morally superior attitude.

[Kurmudgeon]

16. No, just you, in this thread, with your super psychic powers and assumptive prejudgements..

Get some lube so you don't chafe.

[cleanhippie]

17. No, its just you, with your "infernal forces", "demonic" assertions

and morally superior attitude.


:rofl:

[jeepnstein]

19. Go ahead and laugh all you want.

Some of the most evil people I've ever met were in ministry. I don't think that's an accident. One of them could pass for Lucifer himself at times.

According to the New Testament, Satan tried to buy off Jesus in an attempt to have his way. That story should teach us that we, in leadership of the church, will also be tempted.

No morally superior attitude. Just the realistic expectation that we will all be sorely tempted to use the Church for personal gain at some time or another.

[cleanhippie]

20. My comment was not directed at you, please do not take it as such.

But I will laugh at the absurd assertions that krumudgeon has made in this and other threads.

[jeepnstein]

21. Nothing personal at all.

I just think that some atheists tend to reinforce the notions that "we" have about the world and the forces trying to rip the Church apart. "We" focus on external forces like atheists or the state or science so much we tend to forget that Satan really wouldn't mind having a few guys doing an inside job for him. That's my big objection to atheist "attacks" on the Church, that they tend to distract us from the wolves already among us.

Our perceptions of reality are quite different, you and I. You live in a world of tangible things and hard data. I live in a world where there is always something just beyond my control and understanding. In that little gray are are things like doubt, evil, faith, God, and all the elements of my religious experience. My world is focused on a book that is impossible to understand or verify, yet pays me huge dividends when I get some little nugget of it "right". In that time when I get things right I also become even more attuned to the fact that I'll never fully understand everything the Book is telling me. It would be easier to be an atheist. But I can't say it would be more rewarding to be one.

I'll discuss philosophical difference till the cows come home. I'm not so much interested in taking part in a flame war.

[cleanhippie]

22. No problem.

I understand and respect your position.

[Tesha]

8. One of the "mainstream brands" (Catholicism) has been right in bed with the Levitticus folks from...

...the get-go. They've focused on opposition to contraception
and abortion and opposition to women's rights and gay rights
ever since I can remember.

And with the exception of the very occasional Berrigan brother,
they haven't been nearly as interested in other social justice issues
such as war, poverty, the death penalty, and the like.

And they almost always support the Republicans.

Tesha

[Kurmudgeon]

10. Catholicism has many many sects, and they are only one segment of Christianity.

I'm not Catholic either, I just look at myself as Christian and will worship wherever feels comfortable for me and with me.
I've noticed what you've mentioned and some of it is true. However , I've known some very liberal Catholics.
It still comes down to the personal views of the individual.
There are too many Leviticans though, that's for sure.

[Warpy]

12. No kidding, they're so obsessed with oppressing women

that they've completely forgotten what their god stood for.

And that's dead wrong, but that's always how they've held on to power.

[rrneck]

6. Just another example of corporate synergy in action. nt

[NMMNG]

13. They're the True Christians

Or so they keep telling us. And they want to run the USA as a Christian Nation. And anybody who opposes them (like certain "Atheist Fundamentalists" we keep hearing about, or the Radical Homosexuals) is oppressing their Religious Freedom.

[jeepnstein]

18. Couldn't agree more.

When certain politicians, some of which aren't even a Christian, started claiming to represent the interests of Christians in government it was a very bad thing. Christianity is built to exist outside of the boundaries of the state. It doesn't expect any kind of ringing endorsement from the state to exist. I get so tired of fellow evangelicals wasting their time playing politics and in end they wind up being used for agendas that are so very un-Christian.

It's one thing for a politician to be very up-front about their faith and what that says about their priorities. It's another entirely for one to jump up and shout to the crowd "Put me in power and I'll see to it you can impose your will on others!" I think the latter are some times referred to as Dominionist or some such label.

The master of rallying the evangelical base is Karl Rove, and he's a Mormon. You can bet he doesn't have Christian churches at the top of his list of priorities. That's why this Christian is so opposed to the mingling of Church and state. No good can come of it.