Atheists' Billboard Falsely Attributes Quote To Thomas Jefferson

[Sal316]

From Huffington Post:

The sign, paid for by atheist group Backyard Skeptics, includes a quote about Christianity attributed to Thomas Jefferson. But further research reveals there's no solid evidence that Jefferson ever uttered or wrote the words, the Orange County Register first reported .

The billboard includes a picture of Jefferson with the quote: "I do not find in Christianity one redeeming feature. It is founded on fables and mythology."

...

Bruce Gleason, a member of the group, told the Orange County registrar that he should have done a bit more research before putting the words on the sign.

[Iggo]

1. Oops.

:rofl:

[Eric J in MN]

2. Abraham Lincoln

...probably still has the lead in the number of fake quotes attributed to him.

[dtexdem]

7. Well, to quote Lincoln:

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it is difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."

;-)

(That "quote" is on the door of my office.)

[okasha]

3. "Should have done a bit more reserch"

Uh, yeah.

[WolverineDG]

4. How is that possible?

I thought atheists were smarter than everyone else, especially those who believe in God.

dg

[safeinOhio]

9. Read Jefferson's Bible that he wrote

Looks like he believed in God, but didn't think Jesus was a God or God.

[Deep13]

25. Well, that's a pretty low bar. nt

[PassingFair]

5. Damn. They should have used this one:

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites" –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

[Fumesucker]

6. To err is human.. To forgive..

Divine..

[Iggo]

8. ...is also human.

:P

[Fumesucker]

11. I guess you haven't been following the Libya threads..

Not much forgiveness there.


:hi:

[msongs]

10. meanwhile bibles are full of Jesus "quotes" written by men who never even met him lol nt

[Iggo]

60. Oops.

:rofl:

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Another victim of the internets of idiocy.

Here is an actual documented Jefferson quote on religion and christianity in particular:

"The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."
http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

That is a bit more realistic for an enlightenment intellectual living in a very religious social system.

[edhopper]

13. I notice the "stupid" atheist

immediately admitted the mistake. Something I rarely done see done by the religious.

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. And seems to be gleefully ignored by those who have labelled him a bigot.

[trotsky]

14. I guess the frequency with which Christian billboards have errors...

makes an error on an atheist-sponsored one some mighty big news!

[laconicsax]

18. A church near my house misspelled "gospel."

The readerboard said "go out and share the gosple."

:rofl:

edit: Clarity

[humblebum]

15. I wonder if old Mr. Gleason's bigotry didn't override his intelligence. nt

[edhopper]

16. Bigots don't admit there mistakes

we leave that to the religious fanatics.

[Nye Bevan]

17. I will say a prayer for your spelling skills (nt)

[humblebum]

19. He didn't say he was sorry. He just admitted he misquoted Jefferson.

Man's a bigot and a fanatical atheist no doubt.

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. I would seriously like to understand by what criteria you have...

determined the man in question is a bigot and a fanatic. You have not even met him and yet you have "no doubt."

Does that mean anyone or any organization behind a billboard that promotes a religious stance is also a fanatic? Or simply those who are non-theist?

[humblebum]

50. Openly promoting intolerance for, and ridiculing another group of people

fits the definition of bigotry quite nicely. The man's actions meet the criteria.

[Pacifist Patriot]

51. So by those standards a billboard with John 14:6 on it would...

be bigotry, right?

[humblebum]

52. Where does that statement openly and directly ridicule any specific group of people? nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

53. You mean besides saying all non-Christians are essentially going to hell?

Are you really so threatened by someone saying they don't find anything redeeming about Christianity and believe it was based upon a myth?

Where in that statement does it say Christians are bad people?

You've got to have awfully thin skin to take umbrage from that remark and regard it as a personal bigoted attack.

[humblebum]

54. But the statement doesn't say that. And

I don't regard it as a personal bigoted attack. It is against an entire religious group. When someone spends a large amount of money to publicly defame one specific group of people, I can call it nothing else. And he also defamed Jefferson.

[Pacifist Patriot]

55. As I've pointed out elsewhere, he is not the first nor will he likely be the last...

to attribute the quote to Jefferson. It's completely understandable considering it is widely disseminated as a Jefferson quote and has been for many years. The gentleman immediately acknowledged the mistake when it was pointed out and is seeking to rectify it.

How do you interpret "No one comes to the Father except through me." as a non-exclusionary statement?

[humblebum]

56. Kinda directed at the entire human race, isn't it? So are you

stating that it is bigotry against the human race? You are also using the statement as a straw man argument.

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. I'm not quite sure you understand the meaning of a straw man argument.

Point remains, the Jefferson quote is hardly indicative of intolerance and bigotry.

If he'd chosen a quote that said, "Christians are idiots who don't possess the integrity necessary to run for public office," now THAT would indicate an intolerant fanatic.

Regardless, you do not personally know this man and therefore are certainly not in a position to make claims about his entire character based on a single billboard purchased by a group of which he is a member. It's the grandiosity of your claims I find ridiculous.

[humblebum]

64. "the Jefferson quote is hardly indicative of intolerance and bigotry."

First, it is not a Jefferson quote. And secondly, the statement does openly ridicule all of Christianity. Fits the definition of bigotry perfectly. Would be no different than if it was a racial slur posted by the KKK.

And yes, your new argument is a perfect example of a straw man.

[humblebum]

57. "he is not the first nor will he likely be the last to attribute the quote to Jefferson."

Who cares? We are talking about how it was used and by whom. It was an organization of atheists. There seems to be a pattern developing here.

[Pacifist Patriot]

58. LOL!

There's a pattern developing because one group of atheists used a quote that is commonly attributed, albeit erroneously, on a single billboard and is correcting the mistake? Horrors!

[humblebum]

62. Hardly the ONLY time recently that events such as this have been

directed at religious groups, particularly Christianity, by a group of atheists.

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. So believing Christianity is founded on myth and fable is evidence of bigotry?

Or is ir simply daring to express the opinion publicly?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deep13]

26. Are you sure it isn't Stalin's fault? nt

[humblebum]

27. There is a strong similarity between the two events now that you mention it

You might be on to something. Can you imagine what would have happened if the word "Judahism" would have been substituted for "Christianity?"

[Deep13]

39. .

:rofl:

[humblebum]

44. Or better yet, put this on a billboard:

"I do not find in Atheism one redeeming feature. It is founded on narrow-mindedness and denial."

I'm sure that would go over real well.

[Deep13]

61. Isn't that your opinion anyway?

That's pretty much what every cleric of every religion always says.

You're "how do you like it argument" is ridiculous because atheists are subjected to that shit all the time. I don't have to stop and wonder how I would feel if the situation were reversed, because it is ALWAYS open season on nonbelievers. We push back just a little and suddenly we--the constant victims of bigotry from people like you--are suddenly the bad guys. Well, oppressors always cast themselves as victims to justify their oppression and apparently you fit right into that ideology.

[humblebum]

63. Actually I have never seen such a posting on a sign before. News to me. nt

[Deep13]

66. Well touche. After all we know that billboards are the only form of communication...

...in existence. No one talks in person or to congregations of people or broadcasts on television and radio or posts on the internet or writes for newspapers, books and magazines. It's all signs. Nor does anyone program children to try to believe fairy tales with threats of eternal damnation. Nor does religion try to insinuate itself into every facet of life.:sarcasm:

Jesus Christ, man, even your intellectual dishonesty is dishonest.

[humblebum]

68. I can hear the violins playing now. What a crock. nt

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[humblebum]

71. My gain. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

20. Yes he could have done a bit more research, but in fairness....

he certainly isn't the first and probably won't be the last to attribute the quote erroneously to Jefferson. In 2006, Brainyquotes.com listed it as a Jefferson quote on their website. Thinkexist.com still lists it as a Jefferson quote.

It's not exactly like this group made it up out of whole cloth.

[eallen]

22. Here's what Jefferson really did say about the notion that Jesus was a god.

It's a sin to misquote someone who wrote so well on so many topics. Anyone wanting to put a Jefferson quote on a billboard should be happy with this one:

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.

Here's the source:

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefLett.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=269&division=div1

[darkstar3]

24. Millions of Christians falsely attribute quotes to mythic firebrand who may never have existed.

You really don't want to start playing the attribution game when you take any single verse in the Bible as God's word.

[humblebum]

28. Prove it. nt

[darkstar3]

29. Actually, since you can't prove that the quotes came from Jesus and/or God,

that would make attributing those quotes to those entities without any form of asterisk or clarification false.

[humblebum]

31. We don't claim objective proof, but the evidence suggests that most were.

Subjective, of course, but quite convincing.

[darkstar3]

32. That was in no way an answer to the post you replied to.

[humblebum]

33. Well if it's not an answer to the post I replied to, then what post is it an answer to?nt

[darkstar3]

35. That's the problem: none. You've gone off on your own little tangent again.

[humblebum]

36. You mean like all these straw men you keep throwing out? nt

[darkstar3]

37. Still not using it right, Poe.

:rofl: Bye now.

[humblebum]

41. When all else fails, the retorts begin. Classic. nt

[laconicsax]

30. Spot on. n/t

[darkstar3]

40. Danke.

:hi:

[NMMNG]

34. Person made mistake, person admitted mistake

What's the controversy?

[laconicsax]

43. When that person is an atheist, it becomes big news.

Whenever a minority makes a mistake, the majority likes to play it up.

[humblebum]

45. Only when that particular minority thrives on playing it up on a particular majority.

You are appealing to numbers. Definite fallacy.

[trotsky]

46. And you, laconicsax, win the thread. n/t

[Deep13]

38. "Question with boldness even the existence of a god...

because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"They believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

The whole history of these books is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820

May it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Roger C. Weightman, June 24, 1826 (in the last letter he penned)

It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88)

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

The frightful engines of ecclesiastical councils, of diabolical malice, and Calvinistical good-nature never failed to terrify me exceedingly whenever I thought of preaching.
-- John Adams, letter to his brother-in-law, Richard Cranch, October 18, 1756, explaining why he rejected the ministry

Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.
-- John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816

Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 19, 1821, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, from George Seldes, The Great Quotations, also from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.... And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes.
-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814

Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.
-- George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792, quoted from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom, also James A Haught, 2000 Years of Disbelief

If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists.
-- George Washington, letter to Tench Tilghman asking him to secure a carpenter and a bricklayer for his Mount Vernon estate, March 24, 1784, in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion (1963) p. 118, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"

[onager]

65. Thanks! A couple of my favorites...

In this quote, Jefferson used "priests" as a generic term for "clergy." The last sentence should make that clear. I just wanted to point that out before some buckethead half-reads the quote and starts piously whining about Jefferson being anti-Catholic:

"You judge rightly that I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering, without being able to cause me one moment of pain.

I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off.

Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself." - Letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816

And Jefferson's good advice on reading the Bible:

Read the Bible as you would Livy or Tacitus. For example, in the book of Joshua we are told the sun stood still for several hours.

Were we to read that fact in Livy or Tacitus, we should class it with their showers of blood, (the) speaking of their statues, beasts, etc.

But it is said that the writer of that book was inspired. Examine, therefore, candidly, what evidence there is of his having been inspired. The pretension is entitled to your inquiry, because millions believe it. On the other hand, you are astronomer enough to know how contrary it is to the law of nature. - Letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787, in Works, Vol.ii., p. 217

[Deep13]

67. Adams clearly was anti-Catholicism, though not anti-Catholic (noun).

He regarded Catholics as victims of Roman charlatans. I can't say he was wrong, it would have been nice if he saw similar subjugation in the reformed faith.

[laconicsax]

42. You know, there's a billboard here in Portland...

It reads "Stop killing babies or else! -God"

I've also seen various church billboards which attribute other various statements to your god. It seems to be a common occurance...that's the ultimate false attribution for Christians, isn't it? You know, I'd even be willing to bet that you've gone that extra step of taking your god's name in vain.

Enjoy your toy horse, Sal. Just remember that it isn't as high as you think.

[Pacifist Patriot]

47. I'm reminded of a billboard that was along the highway in central Florida ....

a number of years ago. The old:


"God is Dead" ~ Neitzsche

"Neitzsche is Dead" ~ God

[beam me up scottie]

70. Official quote sanctioned by my local 'Uppity Atheists, Infidels and Science Worshipers 109'

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."

~Gene Roddenberry