The distorted story of Guy Fawkes, a Catholic supremacist

[rug]

November 5th, 2011
08:40 PM ET
By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN)– One man’s face, even 406 years after his death, has become an icon for people looking to stand up to power.

Guy Fawkes, and the mask of his likeness, has been romanticized in movies, in news and at protests around the world. Most recently, the mask has been used during the populist Occupy protest and the hacker group Anonymous has released numerous videos using the Fawkes likeness.

And because of this, Fawke’s devilishly smiling face, porcelain white skin and menacing eyes have become an almost international symbol of standing up to power.

But this romanticized view of Fawkes, according to historians, distorts the truth about Fawke’s life and in many ways, misrepresents what Fawkes, a Catholic supremacist, actually stood for.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/05/the-distorted-story-of-guy-fawkes-a-catholic-supremacist/

[jobycom]

1. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Don't stop them, they are on a roll. :rofl:

[rug]

4. Just as well. We all could have been wearing masks that look like this.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GrYP0fOT-ho/SJn4IKYG3cI/AAAAAAAAAyA/AYsaFivCEnE/s400/Pope+Paul+V+Borghese.jpg

Pope Paul V (1605 - 1621)

[jobycom]

18. With a little razor work

I could look like that without a mask. :rofl:

[Goblinmonger]

2. And the movie completely distorts Moore's (the graphic novel author) story

He wrote about anarchy vs totalitarianism (and surely knew more about the Fawkes legend being British) not "Republicans suck" as the movie became.

[dmallind]

3. True enough - not even his plot

Catesby was the brains - Fawkes just knew about gunpowder. I forget the name but the whole thing went pear-shaped when one of the conspirators wrote to warn his brother.

But yes - a sectarian-indpired bit of plotting that had more to do with religious infighting than any airy notions of freedom or anti-authoritarianism (quite the reverse of the latter).

[madrchsod]

5. the tea party is also a distortion of the truth...

[yurbud]

6. it's like Christian co-opting the symbols of their pagan predecessors

The modern symbolism was established with the movie and the real Fawkes and his significance will be mostly of interest to historians only.

[MADem]

8. This ain't a Christmas tree, though--this is a human being, an ardent Roman Catholic.

It's kind of funny, in a way, particularly since the present representation of the man is a mask, the purchase of which garners profits for a corporate entity, specifically Warner Bros. Further, the enthusiasts who champion the masks, use them as avatars, and tout the symbol, many of them, have more than a small bone to pick with the Roman Catholic church, and in some cases, all organized religions.

[PassingFair]

13. Not really. In Britain, they still burn him in effigy every Nov. 5

So I don't think
he'll be forgotten or
be of interest to "historians only".

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. And of course, the Guy Fawkes bonfires today have nothing to do with

Protestant supremacy, and everything to do with drinking lots & lots of beer.

[PassingFair]

17. My dad said he used to get candy and money....

He loved Guy Fawkes day.

[LeftishBrit]

19. True - and enjoying a rare excuse in Britain for a firework display

and a good bonfire on a dark November evening. In fact, nowadays it's often simply called 'Bonfire Night'.

Though the old rhyme is still chanted. I heard of a child who wondered what a gunpowder tree was: 'Please to remember/ The Fifth of November/ Gunpowder trees in a pot.'

[MADem]

7. It is a rather humorous misuse of the Warner Brothers-copyrighted mask....

Particularly since some of the most ardent "Warner Brothers Mask" enthusiasts are avowed and rather strident atheists.

I do enjoy irony.

I wish OWS would jettison the stupid thing, because it IS stupid (and corporate, and inappropriate, unless we're seeking to make America a Catholic nation..."Come home, Cardinal Law, all is forgiven?" Ewwwww!) but I guess the kids like it and don't give a damn about facts, so what can one do?

“What they were looking for was either Catholic supremacy or at least a government set up where Catholics have full toleration,” Sharpe said.

Was Fawkes involved, “yes,” said Sharpe, but making him out to be the master conspirator is incorrect. Fawkes was the guy tasked to plant the charges in Westminster Palace, but because the plot was unsuccessful and Fawkes was caught, he has become the face of the rebellion.

After Fawkes was captured, “the plot was used by the government to rally around the flag,” said Key. The night of November 5 is now Guy Fawkes Night in England, a holiday celebrated in England by people lighting bonfires and fireworks, along with burning an effigy of Fawkes, to commemorate the failure of the plot.

“The fifth of November had anti-catholic tinge well into the 19 century,” Sharpe said. “Once the anti-catholic sentiment went away, Guy Fawkes became the central figure."

[dmallind]

9. This is a bit extreme however

People don't have to see an analogy in EVERY aspect of a symbolic hero for the symolism to be useful. It's like saying nobody should ue Churchill as a symbol of resolve and leadership because he was a racist lush. The movie V symbolism (the Fawkes image is second hand after all) works quite well with most of the OWs folks' agendas and inspiration. Finding something not made by a corporation as a universal symbol could be a bit tricky, and wworrying about Fawkes minutiae, while a bit ironic given his desire for authoritarianism, is more a trivial poke than a major flaw.

[October]

11. Good analogy.

[MADem]

14. But Churchill was resolute, and a fine wartime leader--as well as being a racist lush!

Fawkes was none of the things he's being touted as--he was a small and unlucky cog in a big plot, who happened to get caught, and his goals were not at all consonant with those of the people who are using him a symbol.

It's just a bit silly from my perspective, but if people get a charge out of it, let them have their fun. I'd rather see an organic symbol come out from all this activity (perhaps a cardboard mask of some sort, similar to the cardboard/painted signs) but I will not hold my breath waiting for such a thing.

I don't think the foolish Warner Brothers masks are going away on my say-so, certainly. Too many people bought the comic book and the Warner Brothers movie, and continue to find something swashbuckling and romantic in the fiction of all that. Even people who don't understand the comic or the film and have no idea who "that guy" is (A pirate? The Burger King King's cousin?) associate that image with OWS. I just can't shake the concept that every time we see one of those, a cash register rings at WB, Inc!

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Talk about not giving a damn about facts -

like the fact that the Fawkes mask has nothing to do with Fawkes or the original gunpowder plot and everything to do with a graphic novel whose main character expropriated that image based solely on the plot device of blowing up Parliment on 5 November, with the intent of bringing down an oppressive religious regime.

But then, you already know that, don't you.

[MADem]

15. As I usually do--I'll "consider the source" WRT to that comment. nt

[dtexdem]

10. Both sides in the religious wars were rather nasty -- though the Catholic Church set that standard.

But all that is irrelevant to the current use of the mask.

[elocs]

20. The inspiration that people get from V comes from the movie and has nothing to do

with the historical figure of Guy Fawkes nor the graphic novel. The symbolism of the mask has everything to do with the movie and its plot for those who are using it as a source of inspiration.

I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

[yurbud]

21. I guess the people taking issue with its use think everything is hunky dory in DC

and the folks in Occupy Wall Street and elsewhere are just misguided cranks.

[AsahinaKimi]

22. You have to admit...

It STILL is an awesome looking mask ..

[Deep13]

23. The guy was kind of a nutter. nt