"If you aint too proud to get down on your knees, the bread and water's free"

[beam me up scottie]

This is part of a song used in a tv advert asking people to donate to the local Mission for the homeless.

Local media play these ads non-stop during the holidays, free of charge I'm sure, since they also whine about how the shelter depends on donations because they can't get government funds.

Here's the rest of it:

"It's bread and water, man that's all you need
Bread and water, and a place to rest your feet
If you ain't too proud to get down on your knees
The bread and water's free"


This is their Mission Statement:

Following God's command to love our neighbor as ourselves, the Nashville Rescue Mission seeks to help the hurting of Middle Tennessee by offering food, clothing and shelter to the homeless and recovery programs to those enslaved in life degrading problems. Our goal is to help people know the saving grace of Jesus, and through Him, gain wisdom for living, find fulfillment in life and become a positive part of their community.

So just like the Salvation Army, they don't care if you starve on the street, freeze to death, die from lack of medical care or get beaten to death by your husband, you're still required to pay for shelter.

Because the bread and water's not really free.


I'm a hard-ass, I'll gladly starve to death or light myself on fire before I'll get on my knees for anyone, but then again, I don't have kids.

[Quartermass]

1. Arthritis

I have arthritis in my knees so it's too painful to get down on my knees so I guess I don't count and i'm just too proud.

But this puts a bad taste in my throat because whenever I hear love thy neighbor I think of discrimination against homosexuals, atheists, and Muslims all over.

Ugh.

I've learned from bad experience that whenever anybody talks about tolerance it's just a sham, because usually those who talk it don't practice it and always berate and insult people who don't have the proper opinion or who don't express their opinions in the right way. The berating and insulting people, in order to "correct them", never accomplishes nor fixes anything but generates more hostility towards each other.

[beam me up scottie]

4. They don't really want to help people, they're using food and shelter to force people to convert.

It's beyond despicable but nothing new, unfortunately.

[NMMNG]

2. It's not charity if there are strings attached

Making people listen to sermons, pray or convert in order to get much-needed help is selfish and cruel.

[beam me up scottie]

5. Some of the smaller shelters require people to attend bible study in order to stay.

And people in this forum complain because we dis religion.

[NMMNG]

14. Then they wonder why some of us won't give a penny to religious

so-called charities. I'll be damned if I'll knowingly let a penny of my money be used to inflict religious abuse on needy people.

[Warpy]

6. It also doesn't work.

All they get is posturing, lip service and well deserved resentment from the people they "help."

That's why the bulk of my donating goes to outfits like Feeding America that don't require you to sing for your supper. They just feed you.

[appleannie1]

3. Jesus did not make people get down on their knees and he gave them fish with their bread

[beam me up scottie]

8. Asking someone to "get down on (their) knees" for anything is obscene.

I still can't believe they're using that song.

[bengalherder]

7. Food for conversion-

Many would rather starve. I know I would.

Part of conditions for the charity tax break should be NO PROSTYLESATION!

[beam me up scottie]

10. I agree.

But they always seem to figure out how to get away with it.

[amyrose2712]

9. I hate this BULLSHIT!

It is MutherFucking infuriating to me.

[beam me up scottie]

12. They claim nobody is forced to do anything.

:mad:

[NMMNG]

16. If they were required to burn a Bible and tell their God to "fuck off"

to get food and shelter would they still be claiming there was no force involved?

[amyrose2712]

11. Hey do you have any links or documentation

that the Salvation Army discriminates. All I can find is regarding employment. And it is not because I don't believe you, I have just said this to my mother before and she didn't believe me and I am having trouble finding it.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Hang on, my power's going out, I know I've got a post documenting it saved in my journal.

be back soon, I hope...

[beam me up scottie]

22. Here you go:

The Salvation Army Mission & Position Statements

Salvation Army beliefs follow those of the universal Christian church, as derived from the scriptures. They are included in the "Articles of War", the membership form which all prospective Salvationists sign before enrolling as Salvation Army soldiers.

The Mission Statement of the Salvation Army USA

The Salvation Army, an international movement, is an evangelical part of the universal Christian Church. Its message is based on the Bible. Its ministry is motivated by the love of God. Its mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination.

The Doctrines of the Salvation Army

1. We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and that only they constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice.
2. We believe that there is only one God, who is infinitely perfect, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship.
3. We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, undivided in essence and equal in power and glory.
4. We believe that in the person of Jesus Christ the Divine and human natures are united, so that He is truly and properly God and truly and properly man.
5. We believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocence, but by their disobedience, they lost their purity and happiness, and that in consequence of their fall, all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are justly exposed to the wrath of God.
6. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has by His suffering and death made an atonement for the whole world so that whosoever will believe may be saved.
7. We believe that repentance toward God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and regeneration by the Holy Spirit are necessary to salvation.
8. We believe that we are justified by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and that he that believes has the witness in himself.
9. We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ.
10. We believe that it is the privilege of all believers to be wholly sanctified, and that their whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
11. We believe in the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the body, in the general judgement at the end of the world, in the eternal happiness of the righteous, and in the endless punishment of the wicked.

***

marriage

The Salvation Army affirms the New Testament standard of marriage, which is the loving union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others. Marriage is the first institution ordained by God (Genesis 2:24), and His Word establishes its significance (Matthew 19:4-6).

Marriage is the only proper context for sexual intimacy. Scripture demands abstinence before, and faithfulness within, marriage. Marriage is more than a private commitment of a couple to live together; it requires formal vows exchanged before God and others/other people. Marriage reflects the relationship of Christ and His Church. It is a loving, mutually respectful union intended for life (Ephesians 5:21-33). Marriage provides the optimal environment for the welfare of children and contributes to the stability of society.

The Salvation Army promotes a culture that properly values marriage. People thinking of getting married should seek the wise counsel of others, prayerfully discerning God?s will. Husbands and wives must not take their relationship for granted but should work to nurture and safeguard their union. Troubled marriages can often be healed with the assistance of skilled professional counselors and pastoral care. The Salvation Army offers a variety of resources to strengthen and support marriages.

The Salvation Army is committed to promoting, strengthening and protecting God?s institution of marriage.

***

homosexuality


The Salvation Army holds a positive view of human sexuality. Where a man and a woman love each other, sexual intimacy is understood as a gift of God to be enjoyed within the context of heterosexual marriage. However, in the Christian view, sexual intimacy is not essential to a healthy, full, and rich life. Apart from marriage, the scriptural standard is celibacy.

Sexual attraction to the same sex is a matter of profound complexity. Whatever the causes may be, attempts to deny its reality or to marginalize those of a same-sex orientation have not been helpful. The Salvation Army does not consider same-sex orientation blameworthy in itself. Homosexual conduct, like heterosexual conduct, requires individual responsibility and must be guided by the light of scriptural teaching.

Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.

Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.

In keeping with these convictions, the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation. The fellowship of Salvation Army worship is open to all sincere seekers of faith in Christ, and membership in The Salvation Army church body is open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline.

http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn_2.nsf/0/CE33D354A0544F368025732500314AF5?Opendocument
http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org/

[amyrose2712]

36. Thanks, BMUS, but my question is ...

do they discriminate in who they help. As a religious group, I would assume these are their beliefs. I suppose discrimination can be extrapolated from these mission statements. Again I am not arguing with you, and I try to keep my donations going to secular organizations, such as our community food bank. But I thought that I had read somewhere that they discriminated blatantly in who they help and they push these ideas on the needy. The reason I am looking for this is because years ago my mother stopped giving to them because they gave Xmas gifts and such to prisoners. She has changed her view on that(thanks to me, my mother's home page is now DU, she love Cenk and never misses Keith.) But, has been giving to them recently and I would just like full disclosure.) Although, the marriage discrimination may make her reconsider. And some may say, at least it is helping some people, but I would much rather the help be guilt free. The Community Foodbank of NJ is one such entity. Thanks, BMUS.

[beam me up scottie]

43. Good question.

They do feed and shelter anyone who comes to their door, but imo, handing out stew and biscuits while telling people they're going to hell if they don't repent isn't really charitable.

I personally know homeless people who went hungry and slept out in the cold instead of going to churches and missions like the one in the op.

Begging for food is humiliating enough, being damned while you're eating it is unimaginable.

[cordelia]

15. The guy in the song dies at the end. Feel better now?

Bread and Water by Vince Gill.

edit: typo

[beam me up scottie]

23. Well it was his own fault.

He would have been spared if he had gotten down on his knees.

:eyes:

[rrneck]

17. They do some fine work over there.

Unfortunately they need to butt out. It's just another form of privatization. Religion on the right wants a cut of national defense and law enforcement and religion on the left wants a cut of social services. They both need to leave it to government.

[beam me up scottie]

24. Only if you're christian.

And if you get down on your knees.

The rest can go to hell.

Your definition of 'fine work' must be different from mine.

[rrneck]

27. Nothing wrong with helping people.

They just shouldn't be doing it. They're only doing it to put butts in the pews or for PR to put upper class butts in pews. Every time a liberal church feeds or clothes a poor person Grover Norquist rubs his hands together and cackles.

[beam me up scottie]

31. This isn't a liberal church and they're not helping people.

They're predators.

[rrneck]

32. Trust me, I know.

I used to live in Nashville. I've met them. I know them personally. Feeding and clothing the poor is always a good thing. The problem is that religion attaches itself like a lamprey to whatever it can and feeds off it for its own aggrandizement then when anybody asks what this great slimy eel is doing attached to the ass of our culture they claim we're attacking religion. I've seen the same sleazy tactic applied here.

Religion was peddling frequent flier miles to heaven long before the airplane was invented.

[beam me up scottie]

33. "religion attaches itself like a lamprey to whatever it can and feeds off it" LOL!

Parasites or predators, either way we'd be better off without them.

I have a thing about missionaries that travel to other countries, too. Don't even get me started...

[rrneck]

39. I agree in all but one.

My brother was a missionary for fifteen years. I watched him work. He never proselytized. He said his job description was to teach people how to start a church and run it if they wanted to. He is one of the finest men I have ever met.

Of course he's out of the missionary business now because he felt like he was working for a corporation. It seems all they wanted was numbers. Go figure.

[beam me up scottie]

42. That's where we disagree, poor people don't need to be taught how to start a church.

I'm sure your brother is a good man but teaching non-christians how to start and run a christian church is the same thing as telling them they need to be christians. Iow, proselytizing.

That's what missionaries do, it's their job.

Giving to the less fortunate while requiring something in return isn't charity.

[rrneck]

44. You have a good point.

Although the population he worked with was upscale urban (Hong Kong) that's really a distinction without a difference.

He is a believer and his faith comes from a good place. He really does care about people and it was a joy to watch him chatting with people in Cantonese. It was a joy for me to see it, and I don't do joy very well. He hated the "preaching" part of his job. He eventually quit missionary work because he felt like a cog in a corporate machine (about twenty years after I told him that was exactly what he was).

I guess that's why I get so irritated with religion. It fed off the best intentions of a good man for a long time. Fucking parasites.

[beam me up scottie]

46. Yes, exactly!

Your brother would still be a wonderful human being without religion.

Some might even say in spite of it.

[Meshuga]

18. It's called taking advantage of someone else's misery

True charity should not come with a price.

[NMMNG]

19. Religion has always been good at that

Preying on vulnerability is one of their greatest strengths.

[Thats my opinion]

21. A pretty good sign that your prejudices have outrun

your knowledge. The whole history of the church has predominately been the care of the nobodies without the nonsense this original post suggests. Hostelries and hospitals from the beginning have asked nothing pious in return. Try reading the gospels!! The others constitute exceptions.

[darkstar3]

25. Horse shit.

[beam me up scottie]

28. "The whole history of the church has predominately been the care of the nobodies" ???

I suppose you believe christians invented democracy too.

[cleanhippie]

35. Just another standard apologist.

Revisionist history, appeal to the bible for answers....

:puke:

No thanks.




You really are not so different after all. Just another christian apologist.

[NMMNG]

37. That's your opinion

But how many times can we be told the bad guys are just "a few fringe extremists" or "a few bad apples" before we stop believing it and realize the bulk of the bunch is rotten?

[rrneck]

40. For most of their history

they were either helping the poor or burning them alive. Since the enlightenment we don't need their services since we have a thing called liberal nationalism to replace it. Get out of the thirteenth century.

[beam me up scottie]

26. "True charity should not come with a price." That's what I was taught.

Even better if it's given anonymously.

[Thats my opinion]

20. Ghastly to think it is Christian, or even human, which is more important,

to have anyone get on their knees to get food. A disgrace! I was part of a program for the hungry which operated 365 days a year and fed over 200 a day. There was one requirements to come in. You had to be hungry. And in all the years we never had a prayer service.

[darkstar3]

29. That's quite a claim. Of course, you've already proven that your claims can't be trusted,

so really, don't expect anyone here to be impressed.

[rrneck]

30. You took work away from the government.

You are aware that privatization of social services is destroying our government? How can you support progressive causes while simultaneously getting your cut of the take from the entity you supposedly support? Liberals and progressives support the use of government to help people, not subcontracting it out to organizations so they can get credit for their good works. Right wingnuts would just looooove to turn all social services over to religious organizations and collect the tsunami of tax money that goes along with it.

[NMMNG]

41. You go out of your way to cram religion into everything,

no matter how non-religious it is. I find it hard to believe you have a daily captive audience and you never preach at them.

[beam me up scottie]

45. Kneeling and prostrating yourself before your god has always been required.

It's the internationally recognized symbol of your religion.

[Iggo]

34. That's why I couldn't go there to get clean.

I couldn't fake it.

[Deep13]

38. And of course, it's just bread and water.

Jesus, if they are going to bribe us, then BRIBE us.