Top settler rabbi: Soldiers will sooner CHOOSE DEATH than suffer WOMEN'S SINGING

[Poll_Blind]

From http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/top-settler-rabbi-soldiers-will-sooner-choose-death-than-suffer-women-s-singing-1.396180">Haaretz:

Israel Defense Forces soldiers should choose death before they remain at army events which include women's singing, a top settler religious leader said in an interview on Thursday.

The comment made by Elyakim Levanon, the rabbi of the West Bank settlement of Elon Moreh, came after earlier this week, 19 reserve major generals sent a letter to Defense Minister Ehud Barak and IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz, imploring them not to allow harm to come to women's service in the army as a result of religious soldiers' demands.

--snip--

However, in a radio interview on Thursday, Rabbi Levanon criticized a possible ruling that would forbid religious soldiers from leaving events over women's singing, saying that IDF soldier should choose death before complying with such an order.

"(The IDF) is bringing close the day in which rabbis will have to say to soldiers 'you have to leave those events even if there's a firing squad outside, and you'll be shot to death," Levanin said.

BTW, this is not about women who can't sing well. This is about any woman singing.

I just finished reading http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x317846">rug's post about Saudi women possibly having to cover their 'tempting' eyes and then I came across this in Haaretz reading Middle Eastern news.

It amazes me how there is a patriarchal curve that just goes off the charts when you look at how extremists view women. And how they always put the burden of preventing temptation on the women, not the men who are supposedly the "strong-willed" one.

PB

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[customerserviceguy]

12. No

they just heard Yoko Ono, and made a vast generalization...

[Quartermass]

2. Wow, just, wow.

[valerief]

3. Kill 'em. The world doesn't need 'em. nt

[Nihil]

18. That works for me. (n/t)

[rug]

4. Hey I gave a pic. At least you could post an audio clip.

:)

[Poll_Blind]

6. Heh! I could listen to Florence Foster Jenkins sing opera all day long rather...

...than sit in the silent vacuum of oppression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysCPgkHniWQ">Which is sayin' A LOT!

:rofl:

PB

[rug]

10. Jeez, no wonder he's pissed off.

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.396181.1321550082!/image/4004840311.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/4004840311.jpg

:rofl:

[frogmarch]

17. omg! hahahahahaha!

and I thought Mrs. Miller was...er...good. :-)

[LiberalEsto]

5. What is in the drinking water in the Middle East?

Whatever it is, it seems to be making too many people crazy as bedbugs.



:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Warpy]

7. Rabid sexism and homophobia are inextricably linked

and I'm sure a close examination of men like that Rabbi would find he's pretty securely stuffed into a closet. He has a fear and dread of anything feminine, starting with what he sees as feminine within himself.

I've been picking their brains for years and have found this to be the case, always.

[FiveGoodMen]

8. Fine by me!

7 billion is too many anyway.

[LeftishBrit]

9. Well, even despite my having a female Tory MP who is also a singer

THAT is going to extremes.

This is not at all typical of Jews, even very religious Jews; but the RW settler types in particular can be very loony. The secular Israelis (who are a majority) are getting rather sick of the more extreme religious-right types, who as here are inclined to make all sorts of unreasonable demands.

[Iggo]

11. JESUS H. CHRIST!!!

[GodlessBiker]

13. Fundamentalist Jews and Muslims have a lot in common.

[fl_socialist]

15. they both have a lot in common with Fundamentalist Christians.

Although, to be fair those of the Jewish faith rarely seek to convert others, while the history of Christianity and Islam was essentially conversion by the sword.

[GodlessBiker]

16. +1

[Nihil]

19. You really haven't read much of the Old Testament have you?

> Although, to be fair those of the Jewish faith rarely seek to convert others,
> while the history of Christianity and Islam was essentially conversion by the sword.

:rofl:

[Deep13]

23. Well, the OT is genocidal rather than forced conversions. nt

[Nihil]

28. So were most of the Crusades (Middle Eastern or European). (n/t)

[Deep13]

29. I don't know about that.

They were murderous to be sure, but genocide is an attempt to wipe out an ethnic group. I know that was ever the intent behind the crusades. Genocide is generally considered to be a modern phenomenon, arising from racist and nationalist sentiments that did not exist much before the 19th century.

[Nihil]

30. I just used the same term that you did ...

>> Well, the OT is genocidal rather than forced conversions.

> Genocide is generally considered to be a modern phenomenon, arising
> from racist and nationalist sentiments that did not exist much before
> the 19th century.

The Crusades were every bit as "genocidal" as the OT conquests so whichever
term you choose to use, it applies to both.

You could just as easily have said that the Old Testament razings of cities
("Because Yahweh said so") were 'merely' "murderous", killing every last man,
women & child - I have no particular attachment to the word "genocidal".

:shrug:

My point was that the situation in the Crusades was pretty much the same
form of blatant inhumanity (and in a comparable stage in the "evolution"
of the religion/culture) as that in the rampage across the Middle East
done by the preceding major religion/culture.

[LeftishBrit]

24. The ancient history of Christianity, Judaism and Islam is pretty much the *same* history

However, it's quite true that nowadays Judaism, unlike the other Abrahamic faiths, rarely seeks new converts.

[Meshuga]

26. A person who wishes to be Jewish needs to seek "conversion" him/herself

Rabbis can't seek converts. The tradition says that rabbis have to deny the request at least once to make sure the person really wants to do it. And believing in something that is not compatible with Judaism is an automatic disqualification with the rabbi suggesting that the person should follow his/her own non-Jewish path. What is known as "conversion to Judaism" is not really a conversion of belief but merely a way of joining the tribe.

[Nihil]

27. Hmmm.

Whilst I agree that the "ancient history" of the big 3 is "pretty much
the *same* history" up to "year 0" (or even 570), I don't think you can
claim the conquests on behalf of Yahweh as really being on behalf of
the Christian God or Allah.

I also agree that modern Judaism doesn't seek to "convert" anyone.
My earlier comment was aimed at the apparent forgiveness of the
first 1600 years of Judaism compared to the first 1600 years of
Christianity (and the ongoing first 1600 years of Islam) when each
of them has had their own (frequent) periods of murderous zealotry.

[NMMNG]

14. Women are good enough to screw,

to bear children and to be household servants. Beyond that they're filthy vermin who should never leave their homes lest they taint the world for the pure and holy men. Such nice attitudes religion instills. :puke:

[jeepnstein]

20. I've heard a few women...

who made death look like a pretty good alternative to listening to their singing, but they are few and far between.

What's up with all this hubub over women? It's pretty clear to me they played a vital role in Biblical history. I suppose the rabbis would forbid Queen Esther from doing that voodoo that she do all so well? Or perhaps they would summarily execute Rahab rather than take up her offer of hospitality? I honestly believe that some religious types are just so uncomfortable in their own skins they have to go out of their way to share their personal misery.

[Odin2005]

21. These lunatic settlers are why there will never be peace.

And it will only get worse because they outbreed the sane, secular Israelis.

[Deep13]

22. Suffer women's singing. Suffer?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22R5QMeFX-8

They throw out the fruit to gnaw on the rinds.

[Book Lover]

25. I feel pretty confident that no soldiers under live fire would agree (nm)