How has religion hurt you?

[tama]

A thread for all willing to share their stories about bad experiences with organized religions, as a member of organized religion, as an atheist or whatever, and how those experiences have affected later life.

Or instead of telling your story you can also tell why you don't want to share your story and how do you wish other people to treat your sensitivities.

A thread for victims of religions and question how can other forum members help, if in any way. Please share if you like!

[virgogal]

1. Catholic priests giving women lectures on birth control made me

walk away about 40 years ago.

I never looked back.

[NMMNG]

2. Just a few

The countless anti-gay lies that were part of the Prop8 campaign and every other anti-gay effort across the nation.

Anti-atheist bigotry bullying and even death threats hurled by religious people.

Constant attempts by religious zealots to whittle away my ability to control my body.

People who think "I believe" and "The Bible Says" trump my human and civil rights. People who want respect for their "beliefs" when they won't deign to respect my basic humanity.

[provis99]

3. religion's existence hurts everybody.

[Kurmudgeon]

15. It hasn't, atheistic intolerance kind of sucks though....

[Tesha]

18. Did you read post #2? Do none of those facts reach you? (NT)

[cleanhippie]

23. Willful ignorance on display for all to see.

[NMMNG]

35. Please elaborate

Tell us how you've been horribly oppressed by atheists.

[Angry Dragon]

43. You know, that is a very big load of bullshit

[Humanist_Activist]

4. I cannot, in any way, state how religion has hurt me...

because, to be honest, my experiences in the Church were pleasant and uneventful, I just found I couldn't believe it any more.

However, I've observed the harm religion does to others, and oppose it on those grounds, whether its trying to restrict Choice, persecute GLBTQ people, ban contraceptives, refuse medical treatment to children, etc.

I'm a straight white male, the predominant religion in the United States is damn near tailor made for what is assumed to be my comfort and well being to the exclusion of all others.

[trotsky]

10. I almost wrote a response to the OP.

And then I read this. All I can say is, "ditto."

[Humanist_Activist]

11. I can't even call my deconversion, if that's the proper word, as traumatic...

it was a spectacular non-event, and in my family, religion just isn't taken that seriously(outside of Grandma, she's VERY Catholic), but even then, the idea of proselytizing is odd.

Hell, during extended family get together, like Thanksgiving, when I was growing up, we didn't say Grace or have a prayer, that didn't start until after I was an adult and one of my cousins married a Baptist, that lead to a few awkward thanksgivings.

Tomorrow, me and my fiancee are going to have our first Thanksgiving together, at my sister's house, a smaller affair, but more special, and no need to insert prayer or religion into it.

[trotsky]

13. Yup, my beliefs ended not with a bang but a whimper.

My family isn't overly religious, but religion is a moderately important part of their lives. A short prayer before meals at family gatherings is expected.

I have always preferred to direct my thanks at this time of the year to the American farmer - we owe farmers far more than we do any cosmic peeping tom.

[Silent3]

24. No big trauma or dramatic break for myself as well

My number one personal problem with religion is that it simply isn't believable. I wanted to chime in here with the rest of you because I want to help dispel the impression I think a lot of people have that you couldn't possibly be an atheist unless some terrible thing happened to you to drive you away from religion or to make you "angry at God".

[trotsky]

42. Precisely. n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. By becoming an arm of the Repuke party and destroying Constitutional rights nt

[valerief]

6. It makes people around us stupid and angry and irrational. How can one reason with such people? nt

[Quartermass]

7. Constantly being told I'm no good and i can't be moral in any way shape or form

Because I don't believe. Morals only come from God, no place else, according to them.

And one time in high school I saw a girl beaten up by a group of Christians because she was caught masturbating and she was teased horribly.

Many many other instances of Christians bullying other people because they're not Christians.

And the political junk they do. Such as forcing women to be a slave to their biology. Keeping Muslims from building community buildings because of 911.

War on Christmas crap. Michelle Malkin calling atheists trolls when they put up their own billboard that takes a jab at Christianity and tells them to shut the f-bomb up.

Trying to force prayer in school.

Constantly trying to keep science out of school because they wrongly think it goes against Christian beliefs and of course only Christian beliefs should be taught in school to a captive audience.

Fred Phelps and people like him constantly pulling their deplorable crap against homosexuals and anybody who supports them. Such as crowing when Mathew Shephard was beaten to death or crowing about Mister Rogers' death because his ministry ordains homosexual ministers.

Not allowing others to post billboards that criticize Christianity.

And too numerous of other things to list.

So, I really can't come up with any sympathy when they whine and complain about people insulting them all to heck and back. They cause a lot of crap and never see what they do is just wrong. It's not their beliefs that bother me, it's how they act on them that often bothers me. They are not the victims, and things will never change unless they learn a few rules.

They are not special special people just because they serve a higher power. They are not immune to being made fun of, or criticized in any way shape or form. They are not the final arbiters of morality as they claim to be. Not everybody wants to be a Christian and they should leave non-Christians who don't want to hear their message alone instead of trying to force it on everybody else. People aren't mean spirited hateful people if they criticize you or believe in other things.

But what's the use? Nothing's ever going to change and this kind of junk will happen until humanity goes the way of the dodo.

[struggle4progress]

8. I grew up in a really conservative and fundie part of the country, and I disagreed with

almost everybody I met about almost anything

As a kid in school, I thought the Court had decided the prayer cases correctly: my school district ignored such Court decisions, so I constantly objected to the school prayers -- and a lot of people were incredibly unpleasant about that

I felt surrounded by rigid authoritarians, who were quite sure everything they thought was right and that everybody who disagree with them was evil: America-Capitalism-Football-Jesus all seemed to smear into one thing in their minds, all pretty much synonymous with whatever they happened to think about whatever they happened to think about, and they had a rather limited vocabulary for people they didn't like: f***** commie q**** seemed pretty standard at the time, together with various accusations of godless heathenism, with a general background of associated racial epithets

I said goodbye unnoticed, pushed towards things in my own games
drifting in and out of lifetimes unmentionable by name
searching for my double, looking for complete evaporation to the core
though I tried and failed at finding any door
http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/love-is-just-a-four-letter-word
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqVGjS6o2R8

[bluestateguy]

9. For me its more about hurt feelings and not an abrogation of rights

So admittedly it is less serious for me than for others.

For me, most of that hurt comes from evangelical fundamentalists and Mormons who insinuate that because I am single, unmarried and childless that I am somehow not quite as godly as they are, that I am just a little bit less of a good Christian than they are.

Related to that, their expectations that I remain celibate (at 35!?) because I am unmarried are so baffling as to be offensive. It feels like they are rubbing it in. It angers me to no end when I hear married Christians who are younger than me purport to lecture the rest of us about abstinence. High school kids, OK, but I am a fully grown man and I will do as I please.

[Taverner]

12. It fucked me up for years to come

It gave me fear where I didn't need it

It gave me a misrepresentation of authority

It kept me from the truth for years


--------------------------------------

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want it any other way

If I hadn't had these tests, I wouldn't know that non-belief is the correct way

--------------------------------------

We all have our paths, and they are ALWAYS in the direction away from gods and monsters...

[Plantaganet]

14. I suppose I was about twelve...

...when I discovered Leviticus and began to understand it's implications in terms of my own sexuality.

The revelation destroyed me. Everything since then has been a process of rebuilding.

I know the arguments, and I know that there are good people striving for change within the church. I understand that intellectually.

But in my heart I feel like anything based on the book that scrambled my brain and led me into despair can never be fully trusted.

[tama]

16. Our sexuality

is where we are must vulnerable, and life IS sex, so hierarchical and authoritarian structures hit those spots to gain control over us.

When we lose our basic childhood trust and confidence in authorities, that means the beginning of the process of building self-confidence on a more sound foundation. It's often a long and hard path, but not without rewards and wonders.

[LAGC]

17. When I was 10, my dad made me swear on the Bible to tell the truth or I'd be going to hell.

The matter was so insignificant that I can't even remember the details, but I do remember that I maintained my lie while my hand was on the Bible.

My faith slowly eroded after that. I began to question things such as "Holy Water" warding off evil spirits, the bread-and-wine turning into flesh-and-blood, etc.

By age 15 I was a full-blown atheist, although I never accepted the label until I read Richard Dawkins's book, The God Delusion.

Back then I was mad at my dad for doing something so cruel to me, but now I thank him for helping open my eyes to how ridiculous Christian theology is.

[rug]

19. It hasn.t

Many people though, religious and irreligious, have.

[tama]

20. Guns don't kill, people do? Corporations don't kill, people do?

I would say it's the interaction, not either or. We are all born and raised into various social structures, languages, belief systems, that condition and guide our actions.

Like languages and cultures, corporations, organized religions, ideologies etc. power hierarchies are larger-than-human entities and act according to their own structural intentions (e.g. stock holder value / collectively organized greed) in many ways using individuals, nations, species and planets for their own purposes. Such hierarchical power structures have life-spans and resources and super-egos much greater than human individuals, and they can be called "gods" of kind, human (etc) created gods for sure, and not always very nice gods... or perhaps inherently evil gods?

IMHO anthropocentric individualism is a kind of willful myopia that is at the core of our common problems.

[LARED]

21. That's quite the leap you've taken

I believe the point was that religions influences people, but people are largely responsible for the interpretation of religion and any good or evil consequences actions that occur. All religious dogma I know of (with the exception of present day radical Islam) do not intend to hurt people, the intent is to help. People may not like the message or feel hurt by the message, but ultimately the individual is responsible for how they respond.

How and why people are emotionally hurt is a very individual response and has little to do with Anthropocentrism.

[Humanist_Activist]

27. What the fuck?

Are you fucking serious, so GLBTQ people are responsible for hurt feelings when they are gay bashed by Christians following the Holy Bible? And what the fuck is up with this swipe against "Radical Islam" that all other religions are exempt from? Seriously, do you have any idea what you are saying, or are you denser than degenerate matter?

[MarkCharles]

28. I was hoping not to have to eat a baloney sandwich today, it being Thanksgiving

" All religious dogma I know of (with the exception of present day radical Islam) do not intend to hurt people, the intent is to help. People may not like the message or feel hurt by the message..."

I have a feeling someone might want to revise and extend one's remarks.

Catholic religious "dogma" advocating no one in Africa use condoms up until very recently, or lobbying against gay rights, abortion rights, gay adoptions, etc. etc.

Fundamentalist churches' "dogma" on the same topics.

Religions that have policies of ex-communication or even "shunning".

Not INTENDED to hurt people?

Such a big baloney sandwich, I'll pass and wait for the real turkey today.

[tama]

33. The "leap"

is just fancy way of saying that all hierarchical power institutions suck and religious (e.g. catholic church) especially so.

[NMMNG]

37. Really?

All religious dogma I know of (with the exception of present day radical Islam) do not intend to hurt people, the intent is to help.

So messages like:

"Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered"

"Atheists are responsible for Global Warming"

"Gays use brainwashing techniques to inject homosexuality into culture"

"Homosexuals account for half of murders in large cities

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/spring/face-right/bishop-eddie-long">"Gays deserve death"

"Everything would be better if homosexuality were illegal"


That's all intended to help, and it's all our responsibility if we're offended? That really tells me all I need to know about you. Your exclusion of "radical Islam" is even more telling. Apparently radical Christianity gets a free pass, as usual.

[rug]

22. I disagree.

An idea is inanimate, immaterial and powerless until a human acts on it. We are all as capable of accepting or rejecting an idea as we are of acting or not acting on it.

[tama]

34. What is an idea?

A self-organising web of relations, and there's nothing inanimate and immaterial - in the widest sense of the words. In that sense we are also ideas, the question is only about scales.

Is your God something external to you or an inclusive whole? What is Your God-relation?

[rug]

36. An idea is anything from picking a pie for dessert to string theory.

Its impact depends entirely on its communication, acceptance and action in furtherance of it.

Assuming God exists, it's the same one for you and me, regardless of whether or not you accept it.

[rrneck]

25. I was alternately forced and manipulated

into "accepting Christ" by a culture and a religion that was so pervasive I couldn't consider any alternative. Any religion that so dominates a culture is hurtful to everyone whether they are burning people alive or just making money off them.

[rug]

29. How exactly were you forced and manipulated?

[rrneck]

30. Some call it Sunday School.

I call it proselytizing indoctrination. We were being trained to "witness" our faith to others. I hadn't actually considered the possibility, but I was required to go to church so I went. In the course of the training, we were doing role playing to learn how to approach people. I was playing the role of the "proslytizee" and when the other kid asked me if I had been "saved" I decided to fuck with him and said yes. All around rejoicing ensued, followed by a visit from the pastor to our home for further indoctrination where my mother was of course thrilled. I was a pretty nice kid when I was seven years old. Not wanting to disappoint anybody, I went with it. It took a long time to realize how cruelly I had been manipulated. It helped make me a not so nice teenager. And as you can see, I'm still a little pissed off about it. Kids shouldn't be treated that way.

[rug]

31. My paents wouldn't have put up wiith it.

And I went to parohial school five days a week.

[rrneck]

32. Mine were Southern Baptist. nt

[Meshuga]

26. It never hurt me in any way

I was never taught to believe in a deity in the conventional way (i.e.,the eye in the sky watching me for a slip up so I can be punished or the genie in heaven who will grant me wishes) by my parents even when religion was part of our lives.

But I know of instances where certain beliefs espoused by my own brethren hurt them and/or hurt others.

For example, my grandmother was very religious and believed in the "punishing God" who was watching her every move like a crazy stalker. While my mother never believed in what my grandmother taught her (my very atheist Grandfather was the counter weight), this God idea totally screwed with my aunt's head.

My aunt to this day has her struggles with God and has a defiant relationship with him where she tries to do things in a certain way so God won't screw her life up (i.e., kill one of her grandchildren or some of the sort when she goes against God). And when it is impossible for her to live up to God's expectations (as she sees it) she will appeal to telling God to chill the fuck out or go fuck himself since she is already in line to get punished anyway. As you can see, her world view is not a healthy world view. Her story is very much like Shalom Auslander in his memoir, "Foreskin's Lament" where he explains that he believes in God and that is a big problem for him. Great book hence the plug.

[dmallind]

38. Ask Larry Hooper, Darrell Lambert, Fred Whitehead, Nicole Smalkowski, etc. Me?

Never gave them the chance.

[darkstar3]

39. I'm rather surprised that the question has to be asked, but since it has been...

When I was very young, the biggest part of religion in my life was its most insidious and effective aspect: the fear. I feared that members of my family weren't religious enough, that they didn't go to church enough, and that they wouldn't be good enough in the eyes of Jesus to make it into heaven. I remember asking my mother if dad was going to end up in hell because he never went to church and I never saw him pray. She said she prayed every day that he would change.

Then I grew older, and as a pre-teen and teenager I often heard other churchgoers and friends talk about how Jesus talked to them. They spoke about transcendent experiences the likes of which you read about in schmaltzy novellas written by Jack Chick wannabes. The fear I felt for the eternal souls of my father and other family members was extended to cover my own. I had never had any such experience, and perhaps it was because my soul wasn't as good, as clean, as worthy as others.

It wasn't until college that I actually bothered to try reading the entirety of my New American Standard Bible.* It was the book that my entire "non-denominational" faith was based upon, according to my church and my mother, and so I figured that I should probably read the damn thing. In the span of a few months I became an atheist, but I didn't know it for a few more months thanks to the denial that came from the fear.

Now, I am an atheist with a non-standard sexuality. As an "outside observer", this is what I see:

1. Religion injects itself harshly into the government that is supposed to be of, by, and for us all.
2. Religion casts me as an immoral degenerate, telling its members that I am unworthy. I am the cause of the unequal yoke, the "den of vipers" (I was specifically called that once), the vast shadowy "other" used by Satan as a tool in his endless attempts to devour their souls.
3. Religion strongly encourages its members to spread the word, which combines with #2 to create many awkward and even dangerous situations.

So let's get back to your original question: How has religion hurt me? Well, leaving aside the childhood trauma and speaking strictly as an adult, religion has caused family members and friends to abandon or shun me, and has caused at least two instances of job loss. All of that due to the fear that religion instills in its members about people like me, and the fact that #3 above forces them to inquire if I'm "one of those".

Oh, to be British...

*Ask me again sometime about the church divide between KJV, NIV, & NAS.

[iris27]

40. If I spelled out every single instance, it would be the longest post I've ever written on DU.

So I will leave it simply at one, and that very brief.

Religion's influence on women's healthcare has hurt me directly.

[Obamanaut]

41. Proponents of one religion had a direct effect on several thousand people

in New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington on September 11 several years ago, as well as their friends and relatives.

The rest of us have been impacted to quite a degree ever since via various anti-terrorism efforts, assorted wars, etc.

[LeftishBrit]

44. As a Brit, it hasn't really done so directly...

though there've been a couple of times when I came somewhat close to being in the wrong place at the wrong time with regard to religiously-motivated (London bombers 2005) or sectarian (IRA) extremists who were prepared to blow up whoever was around.

But hardline religious so-called 'pro-lifers' are an embarrassing and depressing political nuisance who have a bit more influence in my general vicinity than I care for. No, they are not nearly as dangerous or ubiquitous as their American equivalents. But they are, for example, almost certainly responsible for the fact that I now have a Tory MP.

However, other ideological groups, e.g. Thatcherites and free-marketeers, have been far more ubiquitious pests.