"Acquire the Fire" and "Teen Mania" events.

[Maat]

I really like the site, Talk2Action. They document the doings of the Religious Reich.

Joan Bokaer, of Cornell University and theocracywatch.com, and Frederick Carlson post there.

In this post, the effort at indoctrinating our youth is documented; scroll down and take a look at the post by someone who has been investigating the "Teen Mania" events for awhile.

This is very scary stuff; I'm not sure how to address this kind of nonsense.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2005/12/24/113549/41

[beam me up scottie]

1. Chilling.

Teen Mania has been referred to as their "Pentagon for youth ministry'. As for "marching orders", we were listening to exactly the same rhetoric at an ATF (Acquire the Fire), from the stage out of Joseph Jennings back in 1998. Militarism and war, total cosmic war, are perhaps the primary metaphors in Teen Mania's lexicon. Last year's events around the country featured both a 'firing squad' (with paintball guns) demonstrating 'what the world will do to you' as a faithful christian, played as a video insert as part of the event, and an actual onstage firefight with unseen enemies, in which christians in camo fight as a squad with a gun firing out blindly in all directions, while `under fire' themselves. We have this in video form.

Teen Mania is based out of Garden Valley, Texas (near Tyler), where they have they have a 472 acre campus that was once owned by Keith and Melody Green/Last Days Ministries, for those of who know about that group that was influential in anti-abortion circles. The Garden Valley area itself is a nest, with Mercy Ships, Sky Ranch, Teen Challenge, Youth with a Mission, Fatherheart (Maternity 'camp')/Living Alternatives and others

They have an annual budget of $22 million a year. Former President Gerald Ford has spoken from their stage alongside Ron Luce at one of the Michigan National events. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have spoken from their stage, and they've shown a video endorsement from numerous major ministries and Barbara Bush.

But do not mistake this for a purely top down strategy, Teen Mania is also has a very bottom up component. Teen Maniacs, those who have accepted the identity, are not mere "impressionable" or "misguided" youth.

This is the kind of militancy that atheists have been warning others about for a long time.

We dismiss them at our peril.

[Maat]

2. Yes, you hit on the very quote I was so concerned about.

I'm just not sure how to fight this kind of force.

I've taken to asking the young teenagers/adults I know to focus in on their core values within; I ask them to ask themselves if they really want to be a part of hurting GLBT couples or someone who has had to terminate a pregnancy. If the answer is "no," then they have to reject such hardright religious propaganda, and only join organizations who promote human rights.

I've no great ideas.

Thoughts?

[beam me up scottie]

3. I have no idea other than

to use what we've always used against ignorance and hatred, education and legislation.

We need to make sure that EVERYONE knows about this movement-it's amazing how many people don't have a clue about the ultimate goals of the religious right.

We also need to fight like hell to protect the first amendment.

We can't stop them but we can arm ourselves with what we need to keep them from turning this into a theocracy.

The people who think that they will be safe because they're christians and part of the majority will be in for a rude awakening if they allow the Amerikkkan Taliban to occupy this country.

[Maat]

4. I agree.

I have been contributing monthly to Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

Barry Lynn is wonderful; not only is he a Juris Doctor (law degree), he is also an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ. He is more than able to match wits with Falwell on any given day.

My favorite example of his eloquence (you'll love it):

("An Open Letter to Jerry Falwell")


**Quote**
Dear Jerry:

Here’s some news: There is no “war on Christmas!”

....

Jerry, this is the kind of interfaith and community hostility that you are stirring up, and I implore you to stop it now. You are polluting the public square with animosity and anger. And at Christmas, of all times!! Have you no decency?

You’ve dubbed your latest round of antics a “Friend or Foe” campaign. Well, Jerry, I am a friend of the Constitution and a foe of intolerance. You should be too.

***Endquote**


So, that's one organization I can contribute to that fights the Religious Right, and that fights for the First Amendment.


You and I agree that this type of Religious Reich activity is one of the most dangerous things going on right now.

Maybe I can do a presentation on it for my local DFA (Democracy for America).

[beam me up scottie]

5. I love that letter!

We need more ministers like him to get the message out to the faithful whose only exposure to the building threat is what they see on Faux news.

Many of them can still be reached, they just need to be deprogrammed first.

[Maat]

6. Exactly!

Yes, I feel that many people, when confronted with how hateful and hostile the Religious Reich's message is, will turn onto another path - celebrating diversity.

The thing is ... it is so easy for a person who feels lonely and who desperately needs to belong to hook up with one of these hardright outfits. They are on every street corner where I live, erecting these HUGE buildings. It is definitely not as popular to stand up for human rights; our congregation has only about 200 members. "Cornerstone" has thousands locally.

What I get frustrated with is with certain PFLAG or Planned Parenthood members who continue going to hardright churches. They support their GLBT family member, for example, but have a hard time leaving the church in question because other family members go or whatever.

I say, "Not another dime to any organization that is anti-human-rights!"

[beam me up scottie]

7. Put their money where their mouth is?

It would be nice, wouldn't it?

As difficult as it is to leave the herd, it should be preferable to being a hypocrite.

I don't know how they can justify their continued support.

[Maat]

8. Exactly!

You must be having a quiet day also.

It is just my hubby, daughter and I; the hardright relatives moved back to the Midwest three years ago.

We had an internet/videocam conference with them, and exchanged pleasantries.

[beam me up scottie]

9. You've discovered the secret of stress-free holidays!

Put as much distance between your family and them as possible.

My ex mother-in-law was a fundie.

She managed to ruin every single Christmas.

The first one should have been a red flag when she wondered aloud "I wonder what the jews (except she didn't use that word) are doing today?"

BMUS, being young and naive asked why. :banghead:

I was then treated to an extended and extremely hateful rant that would have made even Archie Bunker ashamed to be a bigot.

The following holidays got progressively worse until BMUS and her disgusted brother-in-law finally walked out.

My hubby was SO pissed and of course, beloved b-i-l and I were blamed for ruining Christmas.

We were pretty pleased with ourselves, though, and our only regret was that we hadn't done it sooner.:evilgrin:

[Maat]

10. I'm proud of you!

I'm glad you stuck up for what was right.

That kind of thinking, exhibited well by your ex-mother-in-law, is so hateful; it seems to thrive in certain places.

Nice to know that she's your "ex" mother-in-law.

Yep, we're celebrating a quiet time together.

Glad there are some DUers to chat with.

It's nice to talk to fellow progressives.

[beam me up scottie]

11. It was a rude awakening.

My parents were as liberal as you can get and I had never been exposed to that level of intolerance from a family member before.

If I hadn't been a liberal already, she would have been responsible for my conversion.

One of the reasons he is my ex is because he became more and more like his dear old mum ever year.

Ha! He wouldn't even recognize me now, militant atheistic liberal feminist that I am.

I'm glad you're enjoying your quiet time, that's what I miss most about being a kid during Christmas.

[Maat]

12. My dad would alternate between being a fair-minded,

socially-liberal, pro-human-rights person - and a hardright bigot (usually after the booze kicked in).

He has been suffering from an Alzheimers-like illness for 8 years, and is just a body right now, whose is just breathing. 50 years of hard-drinking did him in.

I just was always a liberal (went through a few pseudo-conservative years in my 20's when I worked in aerospace). I saw the light!

So, I know the type well.

I'm glad you're a militant, atheistic, liberal feminist; you are on your right and perfect path.

Enjoy!

At 47, I'm enjoying just being myself - a proud, semi-militant, very liberal feminist who found a belief system she enjoys. Mostly the same.

[unschooler]

33. That's funny. A real wingnut relative also helped push me away

from Christianity!

[beam me up scottie]

38. You should send them a Darwin fish, don't you think?

Just to show them how you've evolved.

[Nightflurry]

36. Speaking From Experience...

These events are as bad as they seem. I actually used to BE one of those brainwashed teens, and attended several of the big events in Michigan at the Silverdome.

There's hope though; I saw through it, others can too. I'd say a good chunk of those kids wake up one morning and realize how stupid it all is. My case was a little different. I realized I was gay. To spare you all a VERY long story, that revelation changed my life for the better and I left the cult of the fundies.

Sadly, my family remains hardcore fundamentalists and Bushbots, but at least I got out. I'm not sure I ever would've though if I was straight; chances are I'd have remained one of them.

So how's that for a first post?

[beam me up scottie]

37. Wow! Welcome to DU!

Bravo on your first post and on your courage to leave the cult of hate!

And for what it's worth, I think you would still have seen through the hate if you were straight.

:applause:

[Nightflurry]

40. Thank you

Thanks for the welcome! I have to say I've lurked here for about a year. It'll probably take me half a lifetime to get any good number of posts though.

I might have seen the truth, I might not've. I suppose there could be other catalysts.

[beam me up scottie]

41. The number of posts doesn't matter.

Your first post is a great argument for quality over quantity.

You should compare notes with other DUers who escaped from the fundies.

There are quite a few, GLBT and straight, some are atheists now, some are still believers.

I can only imagine how awful it must be to go through that at such a young age and I really admire the strength and courage of those who listened to their hearts and knew they had to leave.

[Nightflurry]

42. Indeed

Well I'm only 19 now, was 15 or 16 at the time. It's been a very hectic and hard few years, but I'm sure things will turn out alright.

At the time I had a total breakdown. I couldn't even fathom that I was what I was brought up and taught to hate, but yet there it was. I couldn't deny that I was gay no matter how I tried. I couldn't just stop believing in God, I was far too much of a fundie at the time, and yet my beliefs specified that gays might as well just be eliminated. I made a very feeble suicide attempt, totally isolated myself, got sent to all sorts of shrinks (The parents of course had no idea what was really wrong, I couldn't tell them), and in the end I came out on top.

Eventually my parents suspected and I got kicked out for awhile. I never figured out how they found out, I've kept it so locked up around family it's painful. They claimed God told them.. well I don't know what to say about that except I want a God-radio as well.

Anyways, I'm quite the agnostic, hard leftist, queer little bastard these days.

EDIT:
Post count doesn't matter for shit to me, but in my lurking I can say I've never seen such an uptight forum with reguards to post counts. If I had a nickle for everytime someone got screamed at for 'OMG you have less than 1000 posts you must be a freeper' or other such logic. It's been an extremely large turnoff and one of the reasons I've lurked for a year and not joined.

(Now watch me get jumped on for this ;) )

[beam me up scottie]

43. That's quite a life you've had so far.

Your experiences have made you wise beyond your years.

I knew one survivor who counseled kids who ran away from cults.
She said basically the same thing, it's very traumatic and can screw up your life for years.
The stories she told me were the stuff of nightmares.


I agree with your assessment of the ridiculous paranoia about low post count on DU. That's the reason I lurked for a long time before posting as well.
And it's MUCH worse now.
I loathe the "I disagree so you must be a freeper" mentality.

Ironic isn't it?
That type of intolerance smacks of freeperesque reasoning.

[Nightflurry]

44. Yes, it is ironic.

There needs to be a lot more help for people who've gone through that, I had nobody but myself. I was even sent to 'Christian psychologists' in those hard times, I had NObody. And no one should have to suffer though all of that without help.

What's really a pet peeve of mine now is the claims that Christians or fundies are persecuted and gays have it all good. Having been both.. what the hell are these morons talking about? I honestly wish somedays that I could be a Christian again so everything could be easy. They've only been in charge of things since.. oh..300AD, they're not exactly 'persecuted'. It's such a screwed up mindset. They honestly believe they're the underdogs fighting the great satanic beast. Hell I was warned by my dad when I visted Candada to 'be careful cause of all the liberals up there'. I had to supress laughing. We argue politics sometimes, my family knows I'm no Republican..

This it getting off topic though. Back on the subject. I really feel for these teens, most are truly just brainwashed and don't know any better. It's sooo easy to wind up like them if there's nothing (like sexuality) to jolt you out of Nevernever Land.

[NMMNG]

13. And they claim gays are indoctrinating kids?

Gays have absolutely nothing on these people!

This is frightening to the n'th degree. These dominionists are working to take over the nation, and are using these teen events to recruit the young to be part of their reichwing hatemonger armies. They see their religion not as a form of love and worship, but as a war--and nearly everybody is on their hit list.

I get more and more afraid every day. :scared: These people are the epitome of evil.

[beam me up scottie]

14. No kidding.

They've always brainwashed them when they're young, but I can't remember their numbers ever being so large.

Nor have I ever been so sure that many in the government not only won't stop them, but were actually installed by them.

If it comes down to it, BTFS, my dad has property that borders Canada. We can go there. (and I'm only half-joking)

[NMMNG]

15. If Canada were down South, or if it were warmer up North

I would be severely tempted. As it is though I have enough problems with the cold, and I'm silly enough to be moving back to New England. Canada would kill me as cold as it is up there. Too bad Canada isn't down where Mexico is. :shrug:


As to the fundies--they have camps, churches, and these "conferences" and everything is a-ok. Then a school runs a video telling kids to not bully people of any kind, including gays and probably ten other categories, and all of the sudden gays are recruiting in the schools. How is that for effed up? Projecting anyone?

[beam me up scottie]

16. I plan to move back there, hopefully this year.

Living down here in freeperville is killing me in a way that a nor'easter never could.

These people are vicious and smart. They are experts in fear and hate mongering.

Compared to the many on the left who remain clueless, or even worse, act as apologists and are afraid of offending their fellow christians, we are outmanned and outgunned.

This is a war and people better wake up before it's too late.

[NMMNG]

17. They don't call it "The Lord's Army" for nothing

I remember singing that song when I was a child. Funny I never saw anything odd about it then, but it gives me the creeps now.

[unschooler]

19. If I take anything from the message of Jesus, it's that the Lord doesn't

need or want an army!

[NMMNG]

22. Too bad the Fundies haven't gotten that message

:scared:

[unschooler]

29. That woman needs something bigger than an army to solve her

problems!

[NMMNG]

30. Like a few months at deprogramming camp,

Some counseling, and just maybe some medication.

[unschooler]

31. A lobotomy....

[NMMNG]

32. No, that's what got her into that mess

:silly:

[unschooler]

35. Ah. Now it makes perfect sense!

:spray:

[beam me up scottie]

39. BWAHAHA !

I know just the doctor to do it, too...

[unschooler]

18. What happened to "Smile! God Loves You"?

That was the marketing catchphrase for Christian "teen outreach" when I was a kid.

[salvorhardin]

20. What can you do?

What can you do if you are facing a subculture that fundamentally requires war and conflict to validate their existence (and "rightness")?

That's a question Mike Doughney of the Biblical America Resistance Front (http://barf.org) asks in a post way down in that discussion (http://tinyurl.com/7cbkb).

Anyone have any ideas? I sure don't. I don't want this war. I don't want any war. I feel to go to war with this culture of death is to give them exactly what they want. So, WTF do we do?

I have my own ideas, but I'm curious what you all think. And, since this is the R&T forum, please let me make clear that I'm not talking about all Christians but rather a (dangerously large now) subset that requires war and conflict rather than peace and love.

[Maat]

21. That's the problem.

I don't have any ideas - other than encouraging people to leave churches that are anti-human-rights.

[beam me up scottie]

23. Why hasn't anyone else bothered with this thread?

This is the second time you've tried to bring this up, Maat, and it deserves more consideration.

We have to figure out a way to wake people up first before we can talk about the iceberg that's on its way.

Maybe you should have used an inflammatory subject line.

Let's think of one to use next time...

[Maat]

24. Maybe you are right.

It's a warning. Hope people listen before it's too late; they have substantial political and social power right now (the Religious Hardreich).

[salvorhardin]

25. A lot of liberal Christians

don't think the Dominionist (these people are Dominionists, right? can't recall if I saw it explicitly mentioned) movement is that important. They think their hippie peacenik Jesus will win out against Jihad Jesus in the marketplace of ideas. They don't realize that it's not the marketplace of ideas that the Dominionists are training their young for but the battlefield.

A lot of liberal Christians are hesitant to criticize other Christians.

Some are fearful that the Dominionists may be right (I don't think we have any Dominionist supporters at DU).

Again, I don't know. I don't know how to get people interested in this without them flying off into hysterical paranoid conspiracy theories. Hardly anyone listens to Katherine Yurica either and she's been at this for decades.

Maybe we deserve what we get.

[beam me up scottie]

26. I think you hit on the most likely causes.

I think that many liberal believers aren't comfortable with criticizing other people of faith, let alone sounding the alarm on them.

It's time to throw away the old rulebook.

Look where playing nice while allowing them to amass their power has gotten them.

[unschooler]

34. I think liberal Xianity is slowly finding its voice.

However, you are correct that a lot of liberal Christians are afraid to be vocal. For a long time, I was afraid to be accused of not being a "real" Christian. Then I decided if that's what a "real" Christian was, I didn't want to be one anyway.

I also think the term "Dominionist" is not that popularly used among Christians, even among Dominionists!

[MikeH]

27. These people are like drug pushers

These people are just as bad and as dangerous as the drug pushers and the tobacco industry, and really no different.

They are pushing a toxic, hateful religion on impressionable young people.

[beam me up scottie]

28. Good analogy.

I remember reading about a similar movement back in the late '80's.

They didn't seem like much of a threat then.