What have you got to lose?

[flamin lib]

The question was asked in another thread, “What does a non believer have to lose by professing faith and therefore getting into heaven.” That argument is only good if there is one provable true religion, one "Ultimate Truth". What if Buddhism is right, or Judaism? Or Islam or any of the others who believe they have a lock on absolute truth?

This reminds me of the character in the movie The Mummy--the smarmy guide who, when faced with the angry re-animated mummy, drags a cross out and says a prayer. Didn't work so he dragged a crescent out and speaks an Arab dialect. Didn't work so he dragged out a star of David and spoke Hebrew. The mummy says, "The language of the slaves, I can use you."

The argument is that there is no harm in believing a false religion if there is no "Ultimate Truth". Bull shit. If you live the only life you have based on something you don't believe in your heart to be true you would get kicked out of any heaven there might be and if there really isn't an "Ultimate Truth" you've squandered your only life basing decisions and behavior on a falsehood.

Those who believe see it as a "win/win" and those who don't see it as a "lose/lose".

[Brilligator]

1. aka "Pascal's Wager"

You nailed it in your third paragraph. You have one life to live. If it's obvious to you that there is no supernatural or God, why would you waste your one life on that all that crap?

[AllegroRondo]

5. And an omnipotent God would know you faked it

so why waste your time going through the motions if you dont really believe?

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Since man has yet to discover the "one true religion" it's all lose/lose!

:rofl:

[SteppingRazor]

3. Two quick points to make in agreement with you:

1) In addition to the possibility of one religion being right at the expense of the others, we also need to look at the more basic question. Even if we put aside the ultimate-truth bit and assume that any religion is a path to God, a nonbeliever actually does have a lot to lose by abiding by a certain faith. Once you choose to believe in a God, you have to obey the precepts of that God, and all the religious dogma that entails. If I pick Islam or Buddhism, I've just chosen to give up alcohol. If I pick Judaism, there goes my shrimp cocktail. Catholicism? Good bye abortion. And so on.
Well, I like getting smashed, I love shellfish and I'm pretty firm on a woman's right to choose. So much for many of the major world religions.

2) Remember what happens when you pick a religion purely out of fear of reprisal, as the smarmy guide didin The Mummy -- You get eaten alive by flesh-eating insects.

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. I'll take my chances

That God is not impressed by phonies and cowards.

[LostInAnomie]

6. Belief for the sake of reward is the height of disingenuousness.

One would think an omnipotent God would be able to pick up on it. One would also think that an omnipotent God would be able to decipher the pure intentions of agnostics and all others who critically question the idea of God and would not punish them for seeking deeper knowledge.

Of course that is assuming that there is a God in the first place.

"Shake off all the fears and servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." --Thomas Jefferson

[Inland]

9. One would think. nt

[Goblinmonger]

12. As is "doing good" for fear of punishment n/t

[GeorgeGist]

7. Religion is a red-herring...

and every soul knows it.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. You have your own integrity to lose

Above all, you must be true to yourself. Who am I to say what path in life you should take? Each person is unique, and so I believe each person's path is unique as well. I think that one must be comfortable with one's own beliefs, and should go with what one's heart says to do.

So, go in peace. May you find your path to take you along life's journey.

[manic expression]

10. It's not about which is 'right'

ultimately, every belief is valid. It doesn't matter what you pray to or what you believe in, because everything is divinity.

If you genuinely pray to an empty beer can, that is valid and fine. If you genuinely pray to a convertible, that is valid and fine. If you genuinely believe in the FSM, that is equally valid and fine. All things are god, so it doesn't matter to what facet you pray to.

Furthermore, if you don't believe in divinity at all and lead a good life, that is fine. One's actions are very important, and if you do the right thing, that is a way of connecting with truth as well, and that is no more valid and no less valid than any form of prayer.

[greyl]

14. Right, it's about what works.

That in mind, I strongly disagree that every belief is valid. I think I know where you're coming from, but no - many(most?) beliefs are contrary to truth. Using one of your extreme examples, where do you suppose the belief that a beer can answer prayers would come from? Does it come from the same part of the imagination that lively problem-solving creativity resides? I say hell no and that it's only ignorant to believe an empty beer can even listens to prayers occasionally. (a full bottle of wine on the other hand...;))
I agree with the "different strokes for different folks" attitude, however, some strokes totally suck. To take the easiest example, a belief that anyone who doesn't believe in the beer can should be killed sucks.

All of the prevalant "sanctioned" belief systems have a majority of dogma that is absolutely contradicted by knowledge gained since the dogma was written. Too slowly, organized religions adjust to empirical knowledge in order to maintain some validity relative to human education. On this board you can see evidence that people who have been brought up to believe in a particular religion have a hard time giving up the core belief, but due to forces of conscience and intellectual honesty are usually willing to jettison dozens or more traditionally held specific beliefs (like Noah's Ark).

Maybe we should agree on a definition of "valid".

[NMMNG]

11. Be one of those faux Christians

Wearing a big cross around my neck for show, praying in public to show everyone how pious I am, saying "God Bless" to people instead of "goodbye", working with mobs to make sure nobody can live a free life because my holy book says "thou shalt not" (even though I ignore half of what it says).

Not my style.

[Emperor_Norton_II]

13. I cannot believe you dragged out *The Mummy* to bolster your argument.

I mean seriously, WTF mate?

[flamin lib]

15. It made my point about "which one is THE one". The whole

basis of "what have you got to lose" is that there is one right belief that will get you into heaven. Either that or one must embrace every faith to cover all the bases--which is what the smarmy little guide did.

If there is ONE that's right and you chose the wrong faith, you're out of luck.

If there is ONE and you happen to chose it but do so without true faith any self respecting Deity will see through your farce and deny you salvation.

If you profess faith in all, any self respecting Deity will see through your farce and deny you salvation.

If one truly does not believe it is a lose/lose situation to pretend.