As an Atheist there is a problem with why is there anything? Why not a

[heidler1]

void with no one to to see this invisible void. It doesn't help to invent Gods because they too are something. Gods just compound the observable unlikely hood of it all. Nothingness would seem like the natural way of it all, but here we have this whole universe and the best we can do is study it's weird structure and it's laws of reality.

If for peace of mind out of desperation you choose to account for reality by claiming "It's so grand a God must of done it". Then the next problem is why would this God bother and what for? So we invent souls and say this God wants these souls in a heaven he made for these souls, but this God had all of these souls in the first place because he/she created them. So if in truth God wants these souls why would he not keep them in the first place? This explanation sucks big time. If there is truly a God capable of creating the universe why would he find it rewarding to populate his Heaven with a bunch of humans with a mentality a couple notches above a chimp?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demosincebirth]

5. Amen!!

[crikkett]

13. be nice

not everyone who has an existential crisis is smoking dope.
:hippie:

[Orrex]

2. Ask yourself why you need to know "Why"

What if there is no "why" to the universe? Perhaps it simply "is" without satisfying some metaphysical purpose?

[400Years]

3. for those who believe in God, I guess maybe he was bored?

Maybe some true believer will answer you.

[Nostradammit]

6. Maybe he was lonely?

What would you do with eternity and infinity?

[thinkingwoman]

4. Could you clarify something?

"Nothingness would seem like the natural way of it all, but here we have this whole universe and the best we can do is study it's weird structure and it's laws of reality."

What, exactly, are you trying to say? Nothingness seems like the "natural way" of what? And why?

BTW, don't make the mistake of assuming I am advocating for the existance of a grandfather god, because I'm not. I'm simply asking you to clarify what you are talking about, proposing, theorizing, so that I can respond to it.

Also, please note I am only asking for clarification of the sentence I've copied. I'm not commenting one way or the other on anything else in the post.

Finally, I am being this specific simply because conversations in this forum tend to go haywire at an alarming rate and I'm trying to avoid that because I would really like to discuss this with you. Thanks!

[heidler1]

16. In truth my understanding of the Universe is very limited.

"Nothingness would seem like the natural way of it all, but here we have this whole universe and the best we can do is study it's weird structure and it's laws of reality."

I meant that a large part of my mind marvels at the fact that there is anything anywhere. However this does not convince me that there must be a God. To put a God in the struggle for a simple answer just complicates the original problem. Frequently we uncover a new fact about the Universe and it's good IMO to keep working on the details, but the details will never quite solve the problem.

[thinkingwoman]

21. so it's purely opinion then

there's nothing behind your belief that "nothingness would seem like the natural way of it all"...

That's fine, but leaves us little room for discussion, since my opinion is that we objectively know so little about our universe and its properties that new findings and calculations surprise us every day--meaning there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to point to any "natural way of it all" at this time.

I find it exciting, actually, that so little is known. There is so much to be discovered that it is folly to draw many conclusions at this time, unless the conclusion is simply that we know almost nothing at all.

Thank you for clarifying though.

[heidler1]

23. IMO we see it pretty similar. And yes my post was pure opinion.

I thought I'd made that clear, sorry. However I'm very inclined to believe that what you read on the subject is also some ones opinion.

[thinkingwoman]

24. you know, I think you're right

we are pretty similar in our opinions.

I particularly liked this part of your post:

"However I'm very inclined to believe that what you read on the subject is also some ones opinion."

I wonder if we could get the admins to place something like that at the top of the forum. It would do many people (not just on DU but throughout the world) good to keep that in mind.

Cheers! :toast:

[Township75]

7. Dude, reading incomprehensible sh!t like that will make anyone religious!

!

[JuniperLea]

9. He who dances is thought to be mad

by those who cannot hear the music.

;)

[Township75]

11. He who dances to the music that only he hears

thinks everyone not dancing is mad...right?

[JuniperLea]

14. Nope

He finds so much joy in his dancing that he doesn't give a airborne rodent's gluteus maximus what others are doing.

;)

[JuniperLea]

8. You might read Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"

It is beautifully written and its logic is astounding. It answers a lot of like questions.

Oh, and Dude, don't put the bong down... partake ye of every herb of the land... "God" made it for you;)

[greyl]

17. Beautifully written?

It's an interview. :)

[Emperor_Norton_II]

18. Beautifully interviewed, then.

C'mon man, work with me! WORK WITH ME, DAMN YOU! :)

[greyl]

19. Well, the introduction isn't an interview

and written rather attractively.
Can you work with that? :)

[thinkingwoman]

22. not every interview write up

is written well. :-)

[texastoast]

10. Toking heavily here

God wants to experience what God is not; thus, the "creation" of what God is not (the universe). For if God is all of the dichotomy humans so desperately need to perceive "reality" (the alpha and omega), then God is all of all of it, which includes all that is not, which of course means (and this part really pisses some people off), God is "Satan" along with being God. Got it?

So, now that is all worked out, on to Einstein's theory of time. But that needs to be a whole 'nuther thread.

:smoke:

[Lerkfish]

12. I have my own theory, which you can dismiss at your leisure.

My theory is a gut feeling, as such I don't have hardwired proofs or anything, this is just my POV.

Assume for a moment that God, a perfect omniscent and omnipotent being exists. He createst the universe, but being perfect, his point of view, even though perfect, is still ONE point of view. What a shame to make this amazing potential of a universe if he, the creator, is the only one to experience it. How sterile that would be.
So, he decides to be creative and roll the dice a bit. He splits up parts of his perfect being into countless imperfect fragments. He then drops them off to see what they can do, how they can experience his creation from countless points of view, instead of only one.
Everyone views the world differently, spiritually, every experiences everything differently. It makes sense for why God made us all different from another: to increase variability of life experience.
Then, at the end, when the experiment is over, God will gather up all the fragments and reintegrate them into himself.
His point of view will have been expanded by the experience of everyone. He would be perfect without that, but now he would be complete and perfect AND even more depth of experience.

The problem a lot of fundamentalists AND nontheists or scientists have is ignoring the ART of living. Its more than just existence. Its a masterpiece of variability, of choices, of affected outcomes.

Life is a wonderful thing. I think God is a great fan of LIFE, in all its forms. But at the root of it, Life is a fuse that propels itself. Watching where it will go is the beauty of creation.

[Karmageddon]

15. In answer to the question of why it happened, I offer....

"In answer to the question of why it happened, I offer the modest proposal that our Universe is simply one of those things which happen from time to time."
~ Edward P. Tryon, professor of physics at the City University of New York3


In an infinite time and infinite space, anything can happen (and usually does). Our universe just happens to be one of those "anythings" that happened.

Although, if you want to get Einsteinian** about it, neither time nor space even existed in the sense that we understand it until the big bang happened.

Hey, it's as good an answer as "god did it"


**(real physicists, please don't flame me TOO hard - but do feel free to correct/educate me - I'm a complete amateur at this relativity thing)

[Strong Atheist]

20. Tis puzzling. I have thought on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=37814

and agree on the part about nothing at all existing. I have never seen a satisfying answer about WHY or HOW things exist from anyone...