Has anyone ever dropped their religion because of you?

[cynatnite]

Poll question: Has anyone ever dropped their religion because of you?

I'm still reading 'Misquoting Jesus' whenever I get a few moments to myself. Tonight, I wondered if my overly religious mother would drop her belief in the bible if I told her what was in this book. My thinking is that she would outright reject it and refuse to even consider one shred of doubt. She'd bury her face deeper in the bible and pray.

This book is a must read. I can't recommend it enough. It reaffirms my belief that the bible as we know it today is a lie. Perhaps at one time in early christianity it may have had some truth to it.

This leads to my question:

Has anyone ever dropped their religion because of what you told them? Please feel free to elaborate.

[LearnedHand]

1. Actually, the answer is no...

...but the rest of it is that as much as I despise the loudmouthed rantings that pass for religion these days, I also feel it's a TOTAL waste of time trying to get someone to change. I mostly skirt the issue if someone brings it up. (Of course, I hate confrontation, so I avoid it because of that, also).

Have YOU ever managed to get someone to change?

On edit: Oh, and what's the complete title/author of that book you mentioned? I haven't heard of it.

[cynatnite]

4. No, I haven't...

This book I'm reading has me seriously thinking, though. I wonder what would happen if I were to talk to a christian who believes in the literal interpretation of the bible about this.

The book is called 'Misquoting Jesus' by Bart Ehrman. He was recently a guest on TDS.

[Czolgosz]

12. His book "Lost Christianities" is also fascinating.

[rwheeler31]

2. Dropped, ah no,

stoped going and giving yes.

[SPKrazy]

3. I Don't Think I've Ever Tried To Change Someone's Belief

maybe my mother, who became an Atheist, at one time that really freaked me out. (Actually when I remember her teaching Sunday School when I was a kid, and remember her telling me she was an atheist a few years before she died, it still is something I'm working through)

But the answer to the poll question is no

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. No. But I dropped mine because of what I was told.

I was having an argument with another kid when I was about 10, and went to my dad for an answer (don't remember the question, now).

He, misunderstanding my question I presume, told me to ask the other kid if, since God was all-powerful, he could create a rock he could not lift.

I'd never before given any thought to the contradictions inherent in religious belief. I had been arguing FOR god, not against, and was just beginning to contemplate the big questions about death and infinity and all that stuff, and it blew my mind.

You know, I don't think I ever thanked him for that.

[IsItJustMe]

6. I have been able to moderate a person's religious believe. Around me

anyway.

I had a cousin that used to talk about how his religion was the only truth. I got sick and tired of it one day and told him: You mean to tell me that all of the Jews, Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus ain't going to heaven.

He said, only through christ. I said, Well what kind of god do you worship, alot of these people never even heard of Jesus.

A few months later I asked him if he still believed that no one would go to heaven if they didn't beleive in Jesus. His answer, God will be the judge of that.

[BuyingThyme]

7. Yes, I once had a girlfriend.

She, like most Americans, had grown up in a world where thinking was prohibited.

I made no effort to change her, and it's not that she wanted to be like me. She simply realized that she had surrendered her intelligence for no good reason. I gave her the opportunity.

I realized the same thing at about age ten.

[cynatnite]

8. It took me until my late 20's

I was raised in church with all the typical teachings about Moses, Jesus and all that. But it didn't start until I think I was in Jr. High school. The teacher asked us why there isn't intelligent life on other planets.

I remember standing up and saying, 'because Jesus would have to live and die on another planet. He didn't.' The teacher nodded in agreement. I sat down and thought, 'I sounded like an idiot'. What I said made no sense at all to me.

After that I went back and forth. I would go to church for a period of time, get totally into it, be christian and all that went with it. Then questions would start forming in my head. They didn't let go of me. I would read the bible, think about it, read a few other books, quit going to church for a while and later start the same process all over again.

It was really tough because I was wrestling with dogma that had been ingrained since I can remember. It took me years to finally come to terms with it all.

This is what I have figured out right now. I don't know. I don't know if God exists or not. I don't know if Jesus did all the bible says. I think Jesus existed and did some great things including teaching us forgiveness, peace and love. But the rest of it...I just don't know. I still have a little bit of that fear in me from childhood. I'm going to go to hell or lightening is going to strike.

There is a lot more to how I got to the 'I don't know' point that made it a tough journey, but I got tired of the struggle back and forth. Finally, I accepted the fact there isn't an answer to my questions and there probably never will be. I'll live my life the best I know how and if God exists, he/she can judge me however he/she wants. I'm at peace.

[BuyingThyme]

9. I took a more direct approach.

I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting on my bed, in my room, with my little ribbons on the wall. I decided to say it aloud: "There is no god." I challenged the creator, and apparently won because nothing ever came of it.

Not a journey. More like a jailbreak. Me. Alone. In a world of church-goers.

If there is a god, I fine with that too, mind you. I'll just have to meet her before I commit to doing any heavy lifting.

[IsItJustMe]

10. Your story sounds alot like mine.

For a couple of years I was in search for the truth. I spent hours in the library looking at different translations of the bible trying to make an ultimate decision. Then one day it just come to me that there was no ultimate truth, for me anyway. I still pray though. It helps me organize my thoughts and let the intelligence out there that I am always open to suggestions. Seriously

[Swamp Rat]

11. I hope so

What POWER!!!!

[Warpy]

13. Well, yes and no

My first roommate in college was a fundy who put up a picture of Dyspeptic Jesus and said if it was the last thing she did, she was gonna bring me to the lord.

Well, two weeks later, I had her drinking beer and liking it.

Two months later, she got busted for necking with a black guy on campus (this was the deep south).

She turned out to be quite human once she'd shed the fundamentalist nonsense and became a sinner like the rest of us.

I would never have turned her completely away from her belief system. I just extracted the stick from her rectum.

[TlalocW]

14. Other

I'll never know, but when Fred Phelps came to Tulsa a few years back to protest a gay pride picnic, I got across the street from them with two signs - "God Is Love" and "Fred Phelps Is a Wanker." A college kid (I was just barely out of being a college kid myself) came by and went and talked to the protesters first, and then he came and talked to me. He was honestly curious about both sides. He asked me what I was doing and whether I believed the Bible said homosexuality was a sin as he believed it did. I told him that the Bible says a lot of things, that wearing 60% cotton/40% polyester shirts and eating shellfish was also an abomination before God punishable by death, and got him to use his critical thinking skills to consider if a book cobbled together by the early Roman Catholic church from various religious writings (who knows what they left out), passed down through the ages, translated over and over by fallible men - some with agendas, could really be the literal word of God? He seemed a little shaken and said he was going to go do some reading.

As for the Phelps bunch, a few of the guys looked like they were going to cross the street to come "talk" with me about my signs until I took out three torches, lit them, and started to juggle (to draw attention away from them). They thought better of it and returned to the flock.

TlalocW

[msgadget]

15. Kudos!

:thumbsup:

[msgadget]

16. No

I've shared my views but there are people who need something to grab onto, the assurance of a higher power, allegories of good triumphing over evil and even vengeful tales of retribution - basically, a rule book. As long as they're not trying to sway me, I give them the same respect. When I come across an unhealthily devout person I'm sorely tempted but I resist unless asked a direct question.

[Ladyhawk]

17. Usually, unless someone else brings up the issue, I don't talk about it.

I was a lousy "witness" when I was a fundy. As an ex-fundy and proud atheist, I feel relieved I am no longer required to push my world view on others. Sometimes I am tempted to say something, but I figure if a person wants to know the truth, the truth is out there for him or her to find. I can change no one but myself. It isn't my responsibility to enlighten others. They must enlighten themselves. Each person is responsible for his or her own progress on the path of truth.

That's my current position.

But, if the subject comes up, yeah, I'll talk about it, put forth my beliefs and explain why I believe the way I do. If someone comes to me and wants to have a frank discussion, fine. If they want to proselytize, I will plant my foot in their ass (figuratively). It seems hypocritical for me to go around trying to proselytize others to an atheistic worldview since I hate it when religionists try to proselytize me, so I bite my tongue and let others believe what they want to believe. Only those seeking truth will find it, anyway. From what I've seen, most people would much rather live in a fantasy world of their own choosing than face life as it really is. There are few truthseekers, but many truth "pushers."

[NMMNG]

18. Not that I'm aware of

But then I don't proselytize so :shrug:.

[lapislzi]

19. Does corrupting a potential priest count?

I dated a guy who was hell-bent :P on attending a seminary to become a Catholic priest. I just showed him a better way...:evilgrin:...I think he's still Catholic, although happily married.

[QC]

20. Wrong forum.

Discussion topics relating to religion that have little or no relation to politics or current events must be posted in the Religion/Theology forum.

[Strong Atheist]

21. No, and I am glad of that. Far be it from me to do that kind of thing. nt

[Jose Diablo]

22. Yes, quite a few actually

Exposing dominating paternal 'cults' to people caught-up in the mind bending propaganda that lays at the heart of these cults cloaked as self-described 'real' Christians is something I have done.

I cannot give a number, but I would say the number is in the hundreds of people brought-out.

Something I have to say though, each person had to have first seen a crack in the false reality these cults build-up. But once a crack appears, then it's not that hard to open that crack so the victims can clearly see the entire sham. These cults mind-fuck the followers. The biggest mind-fuck is the idea that there is a thing called objective truth. What we call more or less reality, is a story we have accepted as true.

The experience has shown me, that by and large most people are not reasoning or rational when dealing with the world. We see, all of us, through filters that modify what is seen to make what we see understandable. It's the filters that blind us to what actually is the reality.

[arwalden]

23. Interesting, But Difficult Question To Answer...

... my mom has begun to question her beliefs and is probably leaning towards disbelief (but chooses to believe anyway... "just-in-case".)

Her faith was TRULY shaken when I was able to demonstrate to her that the "Bible Codes" were a complete sham and that no matter WHAT the language (even with random letters) "hidden" word patterns could be found and "hidden" words could be formed in ANY letter matrix.

She was TRULY convinced that these "hidden messages" in the bible was IRREFUTABLE PROOF POSITIVE that the Bible was the word of God... since so many "hidden" text accounts of ACTUAL EVENTS that happened AFTER the scriptures were written could be found in the letter-matrices formed with biblical text.

When I demonstrated to her how EASILY this could be done (especially with a computer) she eventually realized what hoaxers and scam artists the authors of the Bible Code really are... and she began to question many other aspects of her faith too.

Officially, I think she's still a "believer"... but I think it's only because she's afraid to let go despite all the evidence (or lack of).

[Evoman]

24. No, not really..some influence though

*note* part of this post is from another thread

My dad was an atheist, my mom a catholic. . My dad thought it was crap, and my mom every now and then took me to church. I prayed, communed with christ (and luckily, I didn't commune with the priest) and I've READ THE ENTIRE BIBLE. I also went to youth group with a religious friend of mine in elementary and high school. I also read science books (something not enough christians do, obviously).

God never touched me. Jesus didn't talk to me. Praying, I realized, was a waste of time. I found beauty in nature, in astronomy (as a Kid I had every moon of every planet memorized). And I found out I was completely okay with that. I didn't need god.. And part of the reason is that I don't lie to myself. I had other ways to learn, other ways to grow.

Have I ever tried to convert anybody. No, I've never tried. I argue if someone starts something (as well as on here, which I always assumed was the purpose of this forum). I have passively changed people...I.E. I have hardcore religious friends who have somewhat been moderated by my influence. I got many of them to realize (which I obviously haven't on here) that you can be ethical or moral without god or religion. But no, no conversion.



Evoman

[Taxloss]

25. I voted "other".

From my personal experience, I don't think you can "drop" a religion - if you can, then you weren't serious about it in the first place. I experienced a slow ebb-tide of faith, as the questions proliferated and I felt less and less comfortable. And one day I realised that I was an atheist. My faith had disappeared, and I hadn't even been aware of its passing.

[Solon]

26. Other, my best friend, raised Mormon, also a Lesbian...

Talk about conflicted! OK, so when I met her, she wasn't a good Mormon to begin with, she Smoked and Drank, but was also a Lesbian. Unfortunately, the stress of religious persecution and family rejection were taking a toll, she had a temper when I met her and also really bad OCD. She told me about times as a teenager when she had an affair with an older woman who was married, about her parents condemning her, and about what she called her "cowardice" that she didn't commit suicide with the knife in hand. She didn't really value her life, for she was taught that since she is a Lesbian, she is worthless, unsaved, and all she would look forward to is punishment. As recent as last year she told me of a Mormon belief that there are souls in heaven that are "earmarked" for her to give birth too, in other words, she has spiritual children and that it is her responsibility as a woman to find a man and have those kids or otherwise she is being irresponsible. Me, I was gentle, at first, for I realized, quite quickly, that while she, intellectually rejected many of these teachings, she was still wracked by unwarrented guilt.

The first thing I told her that actually took effect is telling her that there was nothing wrong with her, that being a Lesbian is OK, spiritually. To live her life as a GOOD person is all that matters, that any divine force in the Universe doesn't really care who she brings into her bedroom, only thing that matters is that you don't hurt others for your own gain, period. I did prosetylize, that's forbidden, but more or less acted as a therapist, so to speak, a sounding board and moral support for her struggle with her sexuality. That as an individual that she has value, nothing more or less. She gave up on most of Mormonism entirely, and would be considered nominally Christian at the moment, if that.

[YankeyMCC]

27. I would not be comfortable with that

noone should drop their religion because of me, it's only meaningful if they drop it because it's a conclusion they've come to on their own that they think is best for them.

Perhaps I've provided information and example (by my own life) but that would be all.

[catbert836]

28. No

But I've been on the recieving end, although it was many people (and books) over a period of time...

BTW, I nominated "Misquoting Jesus" for the May Selection of the Non-Fiction Forum's Book Club. Vote for it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=209x3610

[Zhade]

29. No, and I really wouldn't want anyone to do so.

I'd rather they come to such a decision on their own, if that's the way they want to go. Then I'd know it's because they figured out whatever they needed to figre out in order to grow as a person, whatever shape that growth takes.

Not really interested in 'deconverting' believers, to be perfectly honest. No one woke me up from the false security of 'revealed' religion - I don't think it really works that way.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

30. I have a Jewish friend who

joined my choir because we do good music and she was eventually baptized. Does that count?