New war declared: It's the "war on Christians."

[funflower]

Unsatisfied with their wars on Christmas and Easter, the evil leftwing conspiracy has unveiled its plans for a new war. For details, read on!

March 28, 2006 — At the Bethlehem, Ga., First Baptist Church on Christmas Avenue, Pastor Jody Hice told his congregation Sunday that the battle lines are being drawn.

"We find ourselves, without question, in the midst of a cultural war," he said. "It's a war on Christians."

His congregants were ready to sign up. "The Bible-believing Christian conservatives are banding together," said Bryant Dunsha, one of the faithful attending the service.

To fight back against the perceived anti-Christian agenda, Hice today attended a two-day conference called "The War on Christians," sponsored by the conservative evangelical group Vision America.

It featured prominent conservative Christian leaders discussing how they believe they are losing the culture wars on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, liberal judges and the latest from Hollywood, like the movie "V for Vendetta."

"The message of 'V for Vendetta' is that Christians are plotting to seize the reins of power," said Don Feder of Vision America.

(snip)

But Rev. Jim Wallis, a self-described progressive evangelical, said these activists are not focused on what Jesus would care about.



http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/Politics/story?id=1778011&page=1

[tenshi816]

1. Why on earth is ABC writing about that place?

Bethlehem, GA, is so small that my mother used to call it "a wide place in the road". In the 2000 census, it had a population of 716. I've been there, and in that area just about everyone is a fundie, so I don't know who they think is waging war on their way of life. They live in a bubble of their own making and any "wars" would more likely be initiated by them against "others".

[regnaD kciN]

3. Don't know, but...

...if it inspires anyone to check out Jim Wallis's writings, such as "God's Politics" or Sojourners magazine, it would be a good thing -- it would help to get across the message that there is such a thing as the "Christian Left."

[tenshi816]

4. Agreed, but

the kind of "Christians" you'd find in that part of Georgia would be as likely to embrace Jim Wallis as I am to grow a second head. Wallis is a real Christian and full of the love of Christ; they don't want that. They want a warrior Christ who smites people who don't think like them.

[Warpy]

14. Wallis is great

and this atheist is grateful that at least one mainstream minister has not only gotten the point but has gotten the message out there.

I watch clips of him whenever MSN has them on their broadband website. He's a great speaker and I think it would be extremely hard for most fundamentalist haters to ignore his message, were they to hear it. They've read those words in their babbles. They know what they said.

If only more mainstream ministers would start cleaning house and stop trying to pussyfoot around the sensibilities of GOP church members and call this gang in power like it is: unchristian.

Wallis has that courage. More need to speek up with him, though.

[funflower]

19. I agree. We need a dozen more like him out there on the talking heads

circuit.

[regnaD kciN]

2. That's actually a very old war...

...it began around 30 A.D. and came to a conclusion around three hundred years later. The main perpetrator was the Roman Empire. The war ended when the Emperor converted, so I guess one might say that Christians "won."

Now, as to the pseudo-war on Christians, that isn't all that new, either. Right-wingers have been putting on their tinfoil hats and detecting such a conflict for several years, at least since Rush's less-intelligent (if that can be believed) brother David Limbaugh wrote a book for wingnut Regnery Press "revealing" such a liberal plot. :eyes:

Personally, as a Christian, I believe that there's been a war on Christianity ever since the Hunt Brothers offered a "devil's bargain" to Jerry Falwell and a number of other televangelists in the late '70s: we'll bankroll your efforts if you insert an ultraconservative political message into your preaching. The Hunts, who once said that the beauty of their brand of sponsored televangelism was that "we'll get to keep all the money we earn" (mainly from their corrupt manipulation of the silver market), certainly got their money's worth. :grr:

[EST]

7. It's arguable that the unfortunate consolidation of church

and state was the primary reason for the destruction of the Roman empire. Poor lame brains don't understand the importance of church-state separation, even with the ample middle east evidence staring them, blankly, in the face.

[xchrom]

8. it began in the 70's with paul weyrich and crew.

even bill buckley is a part of it though he is catholic.

it's a way of growing and using the energies of the ''virtuous citizen'' described by leo strauss.

those cynical powerful like bushco using and manipulating the ''believers'' into a phony rage and activism.

newt gingrich was a later architect of the same.

[Maat]

17. Yes, this is what I've come up with in my research.

And my fundamentalist relatives have been used - bigtime!

[manic expression]

18. What is even more interesting

is that the Roman Empire didn't really persecute Christians to a great extent. Certain emperors sometimes did when it was politically expedient, but Christians were mostly left alone by the Romans (who wanted to be administrators first). When the Christians got control, it became a real conflict, with everything non-Christian being destroyed, attacked, persecuted, proscribed and worse. The Emperor Julian tried his best to create some parity and justice and sanity, but it wasn't enough, and he was soon killed in suspect circumstances (during a battle, he ends up being the ONLY casualty, sorrounded by his guards...many of them Christian...you connect the dots).

Just a few interesting things.

[XanaDUer]

5. Jesus

I live about 19 miles from there and I once asked here on DU what kind of place it was, liberal-wise.

Guess now I got my answer. :eyes:

[bowens43]

6. Actually, it's a war on fundamentalism.

But he's right, it's a war and if we who oppose fundamentalism don't win we will live to see the rise of the Christian Taliban in our country. We will live to see the end of our Constitution and our freedom. These people are the enemy of all free people.

[BeyondThePale]

9. Well, it is about time! X-tians have made a mess of things for years!

[tenshi816]

10. I've already posted in this thread about Bethlehem, GA,

wondering why this place would be a focus for a religious conference or ABC or whoever. Well, I had a look at Wikipedia and part of the entry for Bethlehem - tiny, tiny place - says this:

"There is also an enormous church in Bethlehem that was endowed by a wealthy farmer's will."

Explains a lot.

[Ian David]

11. Christians are pretty open about their plan to "seize the reins of power"

It's not like it's a secret.

"How dare anti-christians accuse us of wanting to do exactly what it is we say we want to do!"

[AndyA]

12. Christians - would this be the true Christians, who follow

the teachings of The Bible, love their neighbor, turn the other cheek, do unto others, have respect for the Earth, etc., or the Bush Christians, who preach hatred, discrimination, bigotry, intolerance, death, and condemnation?

I get the two confused sometimes, since the true Christians aren't standing up and telling people that the Bush Christians aren't really Christians by the very nature of their actions...

[C_U_L8R]

13. It's a War against Stupidity™

As a christian I can tell you that many fundies and their reichwing imitators are no followers of christ.
But these busybodies do seem overly obsessed with dictating how other people should live their lives.
If there's an overarching theme among these people it seems to be hypocrisy. Hypocrisy wrapped in ignorance,
hate , fear, jealousy and greed. I've never seen such a stupid (and dangerously stupid) group of people.
And yes it's a war that they started... but we'll finish it ..... for the good of the world and for good.

[Dawgs]

15. I only live 30 miles from Bethlehem, so...

If anyone wants me to drive my tank over there just let me know. It's kind of a wooded area, so I'm thinking green camouflage would work best.

Have we decided on our army general yet?

[Goblinmonger]

16. Jesus Christ on a Pogo Stick

sometimes I think this fundie nut jobs won't be happy until they get to burn heretics again. I mean seriously, look at the list of things they are pissed about:

they believe they are losing the culture wars on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, liberal judges and the latest from Hollywood, like the movie "V for Vendetta."

1. abortion--yeah, they are losing that one. Good one, Shecky. South Dakota, ever heard of it, fuckwad?
2. gay marriage--taking over our country like a firestorm. Hell, you can get married in all 50 states now if you are gay. What? You can't? Oh, yeah, that's right, gay rights fucking suck in this country.
3. liberal judges--oh, stop it, dude, I'm going to piss my pants I am laughing so hard. Crazy-fundie-preacher I'd like you to meet Sam Alito. The majority of the Supreme Court is Catholic for shit sake. Oh, I know, fundie nut jobs don't like Catholics, but you can't tell me they are "batshitcrazy" liberal (well, one is KINDA liberal).
4. Movies--Most movies right now are just trash. Oooooohhh, there was a gay cowboy movie. There was also a jew-hating passion movie, too. And that fucking nut job is coming out with some absolutely heinous abomination about the natives in south america, which I am sure will be a fundies wet dream.

I am just glad that there are progressive, good christians that are calling bullshit on this guy. Thanks to all of you for fighting the fight against this guy. I may not believe in your god, but we are clearly on the same side in this battle--and that makes me feel good.

[funflower]

20. Who's winning the culture war at the movie box office?

4. Movies--Most movies right now are just trash. Oooooohhh, there was a gay cowboy movie. There was also a jew-hating passion movie, too. And that fucking nut job is coming out with some absolutely heinous abomination about the natives in south america, which I am sure will be a fundies wet dream.

"The Passion of the Christ"
"End of the Spear"
"The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"

Hollywood is falling all over itself courting the fundy dollar.

[NMMNG]

21. You know how they are

they believe they are losing the culture wars on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, liberal judges and the latest from Hollywood, like the movie "V for Vendetta."


When they say "losing", they simply mean that they have not yet achieved complete national domination, and that there may still be people out there to protest what they are doing. :eyes:

[hunter]

22. Catholics run the full spectrum.

From radical left wing activists to whack job fundamentalists. There is also great cultural diversity within the Church.

From a Hollywood perspective compare Martin Sheen to Mel Gibson.

I'll honestly confess that if I didn't live in a very liberal Catholic parish, I'd be looking seriously at the Episcopal Church. My wife and I have talked about this, and she has similar opinions, but we really don't have to worry about it where we are. Still, we are both extremely sensitive about our support of the Church, always taking great care that none of our money goes into the various slush funds defending pedophile priests, etc. You could argue that we still support all the bad stuff (hi arwalden!) because other Catholics are not so careful with their donations, but I think it sends a very strong message to the Church. If I could, I would deny the United States Government any of my war taxes too.

I have always been very comfortable at Episcopal services I've attended, but that's not as big a deal as it seems since I'm saying this as someone who has already made such a leap from one train to another about twenty years ago, and for similar reasons.

My parents live in a place with a lot of retired people, and the Catholic Church there is much more conservative than ours. They don't have altar girls, and they try to sneak as much Latin into the Mass as they can. Maybe half the people don't hold out their hands for Communion. The church bulletin will occasionally speak against gay marriage and other such issues, but it's not oppressive. It's always framed in terms of being a better Catholic, sort of like the vast majority of American Catholics frame the issue of birth control: Um, well, waffle, waffle, that's between you and God. Still, I've been to Mass in places that are right wing United States whack job crazy, places where they hand out dead baby literature at the doors. Those places truly are oppressive. It's like they are trying to call back the souls they've lost to the fundamentalists by handing out fascist Christian candy.

[funflower]

23. It seems to me that the Vatican has been trying to silence the liberal

wing of the Catholic church for a while now. Is that your perception also?

[hunter]

24. The conflict has certainly intensified.

But if there is pressure from the Vatican to drive the Church right they have a serious problem, and that is that they simply don't have enough priests. They can't really do anything about liberal priests and bishops unless these church officials do something entirely blatant, such as blessing homosexual unions. Many church officials test this line.

May 13, 2005

Dear Joe,

Just a note to say that, as in the past, members of the Rainbow Sash Movement who come to the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels this Sunday will be most welcome to attend any of our Masses. Over the years, Cardinal Roger Mahony has consistently spoken to the faithful in Los Angeles about being respectful and inclusive of our Catholic brothers and sisters who are gay and lesbian. All of us struggle to be better Christians, but I think a good number of our parishes in the archdiocese are places where people feel welcome and included, regardless of their sexual orientation.

Tod M. Tamberg
Director of Media Relations
Archdiocese of Los Angeles."

There are some extraordinary married homosexual couples who attend Mass. If I was gay and married, I'm not sure I'd have the courage or even the motivation to do that. But progress is accomplished by those who are willing to fight for it.

Here's an interesting link related to your question:

It is becoming more problematic to be both Gay and Catholic. On the one hand you have a Church that condemns GLBT people at the drop of hat. On the other hand you have certain parts of the GLBT Community who think it is not ethical for GLBT people to be Catholic...

http://www.rainbowsashmovement.com/New_Web_Site_12_18_04/Letters/Open_Ltr_GLBT_Media_02_21_06.htm

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. 'Rile 'em up

and the collection plates will swell.

It all comes down to money.

[varkam]

26. The legions of secularism are amassing...

And they're armed with things like...books (other than the bible) and logically consistent arguments!

I swear to FSM, what more do these people need? They already have 80% of the country in their pocket - are they always going to feel threatened until they control what every man woman and child on the face of the planet believes? Apparently so...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

27. Persecution complexes.

:crazy:

[LiberalPartisan]

28. It's a war against ChristoFascism...sign me up! n/t