Prayer makes patients sicker . . .

[mzteris]

Don't pray for me - or if you do, DON"T TELL ME! should be the mantra -

*******

Secret to a speedy recovery: no prayers, please

PRAYERS offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people undergoing heart surgery, a large study has found.

In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had higher rates of post-operative complications, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers findings have suggested.

Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation.

. . .

a significantly higher number of patients who knew they were being prayed for - 59 per cent - suffered complications, compared with 51 per cent who were uncertain. The authors left open the possibility this was a chance finding. But they said being aware of the strangers' prayers may also have caused some patients a kind of performance anxiety.

The study also found more patients in the prayer group - 18 per cent - suffered major complications, like heart attack or stroke, compared with 13 per cent in the group that did not receive prayers. . ."

-MORE-

http://smh.com.au/news/world/secret-to-a-speedy-recovery-no-prayers-please/2006/03/31/1143441331996.html

[LaurenG]

1. That is just weird

prayers made them sicker? Well hell, now what? :shrug:

[Tesha]

4. I guess folks is prayin' to the wrong Gawd!

Maybe folks are praying to the wrong god? Perhaps
they should instead try:

* Cthuhlu and Hastur?

* Flying Spaghetti Monster?

* Invisible Pink Unicorn?

* Big Pharma?

But praying to that Jehovah guy doesn't seem to work.

Tesha

[Boojatta]

14. Does God want patients to tell people to stop praying for them?

How many prayers would you want to listen to if you were God?

[LaurenG]

15. Whether any one believes in (any) God or not

The mere fact that someone was praying, sending good vibes, whatever and patients got sicker is funny/odd. Most of those who were being prayed for got worse? The law of averages says half will improve and half will not.

There is no need to be sarcastic about it. I have my own beliefs and though it involves self responsibility it also involves some positive thinking, acceptance and meditation. I CANNOT fathom how a (basically)positive energy release could hurt anyone. I'll wait until the next ten studies so we can average out the results before I finally make up my mind.

[mzteris]

18. It's the expectations, I think......

**I CANNOT fathom how a (basically)positive energy release could hurt anyone. **

I was thinking along the lines that you were - positive energy is better than none or no energy...

BUT - they're thinking that the "prayed for" person was EXPECTING miracles (getting better) and when they didn't happen they were more prone to relapse, etc.

[LaurenG]

19. They were expecting more. I see

I guess there is a lesson in there somewhere. That is some interesting information anyway.


spelling

[Boojatta]

23. "There is no need to be sarcastic about it."

Sarcastic? Did it occur to you that I could be a victim of Hollywood?

Bruce Almighty (2003)

Genre: Comedy / Fantasy / Romance (more)

Tagline: He's got the power.

Plot summary:

Bruce Nolan is a television reporter. He is told that he is being considered for the position of anchorman. While he is out doing a live feed, the new anchorman is announced. It's not Bruce. Bruce freaks out during the live broadcast. He gets fired and then has other problems. Soon he blames God.

God then gives Bruce what appears to be almighty power, but Bruce has to listen to prayers. When Bruce tries to grant all prayer requests, turmoil ensues. Also, Bruce has been ignoring his girlfriend, Grace, and loses her. It seems that the only thing that Bruce can't do is alter a person's free will, so if he wants her back, he has to do it the hard way.

The above info is based on:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0315327/

Kuala Lumpur: The Malaysian government has finally given the nod for cinemas to screen Hollywood comedy "Bruce Almighty" despite a minister's complaints that it was against Islamic beliefs.

The movie was set to debut in cinemas but was postponed after minister for religious affairs, Abdul Hamid Zainal Abidin, said the movie, in which star Jim Carrey is given divine powers and challenged by God to do a better job of running the world, was "not appropriate".

Source:
http://pgoh13.free.fr/bruce_offends.html

Egypt Bans Jim Carrey God Flick

[LaurenG]

24. Thank you for the clarification

I see you have a sense of humor which is a mighty fine thing to have in this day and age.:thumbsup: It went right over my head.

[Warpy]

2. It's funny as all get out listening to preachers and true believers

trying to spin this study into something that backs up their silly belief that they can order god around and affect the outcome of illness in another person.

Any believer who wants prayer to work has to realize he's got to do his own work. Prayer acts the same way as chanting and meditation to relax and center a person. It just can't be transferred like second hand smoke across a room to do the same for somebody else.

It's really sad to see this study, which was carried out under rigorous standards and actually expected different results, to be attacked so vigorously by the true believers. Superstition trumps facts yet again.

[displacedtexan]

3. I can't even count the students who said "But I prayed" after tests...

I finally began to reply, "I guess God's answer was "No."

[Tesha]

6. Perhaps they didn't hear God say: "So study!"

The rain fell, the waters rose, and the river overflowed it's banks. Homes flooded and families began to evacuate. One man stopped at his neighbors house to offer aid. "Neighbor," he cried, "the waters are rising! Bring your family into my truck and I will take you to safety."

"No," replied his neighbor, "I will not go, for I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and He shall protect me and my family."

The rain still fell and the waters still rose. Soon the man and his family had to go to the second floor of the house to escape the water. An Emergency Rescue crew found the family, and said "The waters still rise. Get into our boat and we will take you to safety."

"No," said the man, "My faith is strong! God shall protect me and my family and we shall come to no harm."

The rain would not stop. The waters rushed higher. As the man and his family clung to the roof of their house a helicopter rescue team flew over and dropped them a ladder. Again the man refused. "I do not fear! I believe in God, and he shall protect us. We will not go."

The entire family drowned.

The man, who, in life, had been a goodly man, found himself before God. "God!" the man sobbed, "I believed in you, and trusted you to protect me and my family. How could you just let us die like that? Why did you not save us?"

And God replied: "I sent a truck, a boat, and a helicopter - what exactly were you waiting for?"

[valerief]

11. Too bad God didn't send a truck, a boat, and a helicopter to

Katrina victims. Proves Bush is not God, after all.

[mzteris]

13. The Lord helps those

who help themselves..........

:rofl:

[Tesha]

20. So the man prays to God to win the lottery...

So the man prays to God to win the lottery.

For years, he prays to God to win the lottery.

Finally, in exhasperation, he prays to God saying
"Oh Lord, I've prayed to you for years saying
'Let me win the lottery. Lord, tell me how I have
offended you that you never have seen fit to let
me win, not even one dime!'"

And the Lord finally answers him saying:

"So meet me half way -- buy a ticket!"

Tesha

[saltpoint]

5. So if you pray for someone's condition to deteriorate, would they

get better?

[BurtWorm]

7. Now there's a hypothesis!

:thumbsup:

Write a grant.

[saltpoint]

8. Hi, BurtWorm. In truth I don't understand the findings. I thought

I had read studies where minds can be focused to enhance health.

Oh well.

Right now I'm watching to see how this censure episode plays out.

You hang in there.

[BurtWorm]

10. From what I understand of this study, it corrected flaws

in the methodology of earlier studies.

I'd pray for the censure measure, but I wouldn't want to jinx it.

;)

[saltpoint]

12. I'm with ya. Good strategy on the censure resolution. / nt

[charlie]

9. Well, no

It was the awareness of prayer by strangers that was the difference in the worsening group, not prayer itself. More to the point, for the umpteenth time a study has discovered no measurable effects from remote prayer, so it neither helped nor harmed them.

One thing I find interesting is that the study was funded largely by the John Templeton Foundation, sponsors of the Templeton Prize. This can't be the result they were expecting, which indicates to me that they were hands-off and didn't try to game the outcome. Kudos to them for pursuing a genuine scientic inquiry, an admirable departure from other advocacy groups who would use their clout to get what they paid for.

[sutz12]

16. Prayer helps the pray-er feel better...... nt

[moobu2]

17. That may be true

But that isn’t the reason given in the Christian Bible for practicing the activity.

The Bible repeatedly say’s “ask and you shall receive” in various forms of wording, it doesn’t say” ask so you shall feel better”. It specifically say’s to pray for whatever you want, that if you believe in Jesus, bla, bla, bla etc…

Evidently, it makes no difference in the medical outcome one way or another so somebody’s lying or unknowingly repeating a lie.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. Heheheheh

so if I want to really piss somebody off in a nice passive-aggressive way, I will just tell them "I am praying for you?"

Reminds me of a friend of mine who had a big problem with a person professionally. This person had really wronged her in the most backstabbling underhanded way. So she sent him a crisp one-dollar bill every week for a year, in an unmarked envelope. It must have driven him nuts, because she was certainly not the only person he had hurt over the years, so he'd have no way of knowing it was her.

[heidler1]

22. If heaven is all it's cracked up to be and this God made it for his chosen

followers, would it not follow that dying quicker would be truly a blessing? Humans only prove their internal disbelief by wanting to put off death as long as possible. True believers then would want to hurry their death, but dodge being suicidal which is a sin. God could take it as a personal affront to pray for a longer life. Hey I didn't dream up this dogma and I'm not responsible for any inconsistent parts.