Conference held to discuss "War on Christians"

[NMMNG]

"It doesn't rise to the level of persecution that we would see in China or North Korea," said Tristan Emmanuel, a Canadian activist. "But let's not pretend that it's okay."

Well, gee, no it doesn't. In those countries you can be killed for being a Christian where here Christians wield all of the power.


White evangelicals make up about one-quarter of the U.S. population, and 85 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. But three-quarters of evangelicals believe they are a minority under siege and nearly half believe they are looked down upon by most of their fellow citizens, according to a 2004 poll.

HELLO!!! If you are part of a group that comprises 85% of the nation there is no way that you can be a "minority under siege". And if you are feeling "looked down upon" perhaps you should ask yourselves why.

"You guys have become the Jews of the 21st century," said Horowitz, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington

Don't even go there. To even begin to compare what the Evangelicals imagine they are going through to the horrors of what Jews have been through over the centuries is an abomination.

These people are going further into the depths of delusion than ever before.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032801632.html

[intheflow]

1. I had a Jewish professor at seminary who called this phenominon

“the majority protesting false persecution.” She'd cite as an example the Christians who complain of not being allowed to pray in schools. She says no one is stopping any Christian from praying every hour, on the hour—-only from forcing others to pray with them in public places. She recounts how, when she was growing up Jewish in America, her school didn’t serve kosher foods in the cafeteria. This didn’t stop her from keeping kosher, she just brought her food from home. But it never occurred to her family that, as religious minorities, they ought to impose their kosher eating habits on the rest of the school.

[NMMNG]

2. Exactly!

She recounts how, when she was growing up Jewish in America, her school didn’t serve kosher foods in the cafeteria. This didn’t stop her from keeping kosher, she just brought her food from home. But it never occurred to her family that, as religious minorities, they ought to impose their kosher eating habits on the rest of the school.



That is the problem with some people...their perceived "right" to impose their beliefs on others, and their perceptions of persecution when denied that "right". Christians have no more right to impose their religious beliefs on me than I have to impose my vegetarianism on them.

[intheflow]

3. Although imposing vegitarianism on Christians makes for

a much more interesting imagined visual. :)

[NMMNG]

4. LOL, I could see it now

"She waged her own private War On Easter by refusing to let us have an Easter ham!" :cry:

[intheflow]

5. I was thinking more like,

seeing you pinning down a fundy and stuffing tofu in their mouth. Come to think on it, I think I'd pay to see that!

[NMMNG]

6. Wow, you're tough

That's not normally my style but if push came to shove I might have it in me. ;-) :evilgrin:



on edit: As I'm cramming it in I could tell the person, "This is payback for all of the crap you guys have shoved down my throat over the years". :rofl:

[China_cat]

13. What would that do to communion?

[xchrom]

7. or ''how the gop makes sure the lunatic right shows up

to vote in 06.''

[NMMNG]

8. No doubt

"Vote for us to stop the war on Christianity" :wow:

They come up with some new crackpot scheme every time an election rolls around, and the whackjobs fall for it with amazing reliability. :eyes:

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Well, that 12% that thinks it's being looked down on...

probably IS being looked down on by anyone with a lick of sense.

And that includes most of the rest of us 85% Christians.

Evangelicals are a minority, I suppose, being less than a quarter of the country and having to fight us Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists and other unsaved heathens tooth and nail.

But, that's just too damn bad. They gotta follow the rules just like the rest of us.

[darkmaestro019]

16. Exactly. I'm still trying very hard to root out in my mind

hatred of all Christians, because it's not Christians at large who are the evil jerks. It took me a VERY long time to even realize that. It's a loud, tiny, awful minority. And they're impugning what I a large, very varied group of people who I suspect mostly have common beliefs in, well, love and light, to be cheesy and utterly sincere about it.

I'm trying to use "fundy" when I mean the sort of nice upstanding "Christian" who throws bottles at me and my fiancee for doing things like walking into stores and using ATM and who wants us relegated to second-classdom. It's hardly fair to Christians like yourself that these jerks have usurped that very title and are giving everyone in that religion a bad rep.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Ever heard of Father Alec Reid? Of course...

not. We hear from the angry fundies and we hear of child-buggering priests, but who's heard of Alec Reid?

He's an Irish priest who spent 10 years working to bring some sort of peace to Northern Ireland and is generally given credit for just about all the progress that's been made.

He was asked to go to Basque country and broker a peace there. The recent announcements that look very good are almost entirely his doing thanks to his extraordinary skill at doing the impossible.

Fr. Reid is one of countless almost unheard of Christians who live their faith and are guided by that faith to try to make this planet just a little bit better, and, of course, other faiths have have their unsung heros with the same dedication. And we are well aware that it doesn't necessarily take faith to do the right thing, it's just our way.

American Friends Service Committee, Lutheran World Relief, Mennonite Central, Catholic Charities... these are the things that most of us support and work at, but we are too busy working to make the noises of the (un)Christian Right. Our time and money goes to food banks, not microphone banks.

[darkmaestro019]

20. I've never heard of him either, but I'll Google him. : )

John Shelby Spong was instrumental in changing my mind. I was looking at stuff about biblical errancy and read a LOT of what he'd said before I even realized who and what he was. I slowly came to realize that many many Christians of various flavors are there because they believe in goodness and in the general philosophy of Jesus, not chasing queers and preventing condom use.

The nice ones don't bang on doors, I guess. Living in Floriduh for most of my life did NOT help my perception of organized religion any, but I'm recovering nicely, I think. : )

Another thing that really, really changed my mind is here in Stark we have the Total Living Center--a doctor's office in the basement of a church. My beloved went, and insisted it was fine, and that I was NOT going to have the backache I'd had for ANOTHER week until maybe a kidney failed and I was going to the dang "church doctor" and was going to quit being a chicken.

And they were wonderful.

Doc J is a goddess, which she never blinks at me for saying to her cos she knows how I mean it. They've seen me and my lover for colds that won't end and wrecked joints that the plants who caused them didn't provide insurance to treat. They got me hooked up with the removal of two impacted wisdom teeth that I've been taking fish tank antibiotics to un-inflame for YEARS. Total anesthesia, after-care pain meds, incredibly nice staff. They've gotten my beloved five fillings and new glasses. They have never charged us a dime. They have never said a peep to us about our black clothes, our pentagrams, or our gayness. When M went in by himself they asked how his husband was.

She knows I'm transgendered--and she wrote me a prescription for my hormones, which previously was costing me about $1200 a year, script plus endocrinologist if I'd been able to afford that.

(I wasn't able to afford it--I was cutting my own dose and reusing needles out of desperation. Having hormones sometimes and sometimes not leads to insanity and I MEAN INSANITY)

She searched and web-networked and found someplace where I can get TWICE AS MUCH for less than half what I was paying for the prescription itself--without the $300 a pop I had to pay the hospital I was using JUST TO GO IN, and without the $400 in bloodwork they billed me for EVERY TIME) And she gave me TWELVE refills. So I can sleep at night, knowing that I'm nowhere near out and I can refill it BEFORE I run out.

So my total cost, now, to take it every time I'm supposed to with a safe, new, clean needle is about $104 A YEAR. a YEAR.

And they have a bookshelf FULL of good books, secular and some religious, with each one marked "Please borrow this book as long as you like but return it when you are finished." Kids and adult books. Doc J said most come back to her, and those that do not, she knows that house has at least one book in it.

We're bringing her a huge box of many many books. It's all we can do, but if everyone did something...

If all Christians like those were as loud as the Falwells and Phelpses and DeLays, I'd never have HAD to learn not to hate that religion and its members. But I think that real goodness doesn't tend to shout from streetcorners and flagwave. Real goodness has nothing to prove.

EDIT: I left out the trans thing, which makes this long as fk, forgot this was mostly a safe place to be out in, lol. And that blew my mind, I thought all Christians hated people like me. I love to be wrong.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Wow! The "Church Doctor" is a treasure...

it's just so saddening that these clinics have to be set up here in the wealthiest nation in history.

And yes, this is mostly a safe place, as are more churches than you would imagine. My Quaker meeting had two couples who were not only gay, but interracial. One couple died and the other moved away, and they are sorely missed. The United Church of Christ is now advertising for gay members, not as a "marketing gimmick," but to make the statement that we are all God's children. Even the Baptists have a small group of "welcoming and affirming" churches that have their hands and hearts out to everyone.

Funny thing with some of the fundagelical churches-- they might rail gainst the "sin" but when one of their own turns up gay, it's often "Oh, that's Harry and Glenda's kid. That's different, he's OK." It's an odd thing about human nature that we can rant and rave and cause incredible pain over an abstract idea, but when it comes down to dealing with individuals, we can forget all about that stuff.

[NMMNG]

23. And maybe they need to step back and ask themselves

"Why are we looked down upon"?

They may not like the answer, but it may help them to change their behavior a bit.

They need to realize people do not like overbearing bullies who use money, the legal system, bullhorns, e-mail, phone calls, threats and the like to force their brand of religion on the entire nation.

[ClintonTyree]

10. christians always think they're being persecuted....

it goes right along with the whole jesus thing. They want to feel like they're being persecuted, just like their savior. :eyes: Whatever dudes and dudettes. Carry your crosses and self flagellate if it makes you feel better. No one is coming for your religion. Just don't try to shove it down everyone's throat, that's when people get upset and "persecute" you. :eyes:

[xchrom]

11. when you try to institute or govern rationally you are

persecuting fundies

they're not rational.

and i'm a christian.

[arwalden]

19. Yep... To Stand Up For One's OWN Self Is To "Persecute"

[Misunderestimator]

25. *save*

:thumbsup:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. When my back is better I'll fix up a "Darwin Fish" version. -nt

[Proud_Democratt]

29. Atheists are treated like lepers...

and expected to be quiet about their non-belief. We are also treated as immoral individuals. At least....we aren't hypocrites.

[Proud_Democratt]

28. And often...

they are the "offenders" of persecution. In the US, Christianity is shoved down our throats, in every shape or form of communication....
Thinking persons who resist this type of BRAINWASHING are told "you are going to Hell".

[GeorgeGist]

12. Fear is the ticket...

to punch when insanity is your destination. How archaic!

[Random_Australian]

14. Oh yes, they sure are under attack.

"I think, therefore I am."

It must be hard on the fundies. They aren't even aware that they don't exist.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. I don't look down on them

any more than I look down on the Taliban.

Here's a not of sanity

"This is a skirmish over religious pluralism, and the inclination to see it as a war against Christianity strikes me as a spoiled-brat response by Christians who have always enjoyed the privileges of a majority position," said the Rev. Robert M. Franklin, a minister in the Church of God in Christ and professor of social ethics at Emory University.

And a note of particular insanity

Don Feder, founder of a group called Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation, urged the crowd not to blame "the liberal, self-hating Jews in Hollywood."

"Remember, the people in this audience are more Jewish than people like Barbra Streisand, because you embrace Jewish values, she doesn't," he said.

This is the sort of story that makes me WISH we could throw them to the lions, and I don't like feeling that much loathing for fellow human beings.

[NMMNG]

22. Indeed

"Remember, the people in this audience are more Jewish than people like Barbra Streisand, because you embrace Jewish values, she doesn't," he said.


And how many of the "Christians" in the audience embrace Christian values? :eyes:

[arwalden]

18. The Omni Shoreham Hotel... Pretty Nice Digs For Those OPPRESSED Christians

A Selection of 360-degree animated panoramas:
http://www.omnihotels.com/Virtual_Reality/WASSHO/popindex.html

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Since their faith has become so thoroughly devoid of the

things it ought to be based on -- loving kindness, care for your fellow human -- all that liberal stuff doncha know -- they NEED to be persecuted. It's the only thing left. They NEED it to feel their religion has meaning. It's the only way they can feel anything anymore.

How sad. If they'd turn back to the basics of Christianity -- if they'd spend more time feeding the hungry and caring for the least among them -- they'd know they are not in the least persecuted, but probably blessed to live in this country with the freedom to practice their religion.

It's become quite twisted. Probably make for an interesting psychological study.


p.s. -- let me be clear here that I'm speaking of the loud and ugly subset of Christians here. As one myself, I don't have any need or claim to persecution. I am not a minority. I am, however, almost always mindful of those who are truly in the minority here... and often persecuted by the fundie Christians.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

26. 80% of America is being persecuted, everyone.

Can you say "persecution complex"?

:eyes: