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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:24 PM
Original message
New Ancient text found
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. They've been talking about it on the Nat. Geo. Channel all night
Very interesting find, indeed. A lot of folks on DU have been talking about it, too.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's very in line with how
I feel about this world.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. In line with what, the new gospel? I've read a couple of the Naj Hammadi
texts; they are most interesting. I've also read (portions of) Elaine Pagels book Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, and she has been interviewed on CNN and MSNBC commenting about this recent find. She's a fascinating woman who is not much liked by the fundie literalists!
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. The Gospel
of Judas is very clear this world is corrupt. The creator of this world is not a good god,in fact it is evil. Jesus discribes that flesh traps spirit and souls here.
It defies bodily ressurection preached by most churches.. And it calls orthodoxy on the carpet.It calls Jehovah Yaweh the evil god of this world ..

Judas is a hero.
He helped Jesus go home.

Alot of belief systems denoiuce dualism as scary. They insist all is one but cannot explian why evil is so evil so they twist thier brains into pretzels trying to call evil good. Jesus said that was because these people are of the world.They were worshipping the god creator of this world.And they had no Gnosis of the great magificance unspeable not like this world.(see thunder perfect mind)
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/thunder.html
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hey, panther, what's it about?
Do the fundies have their panties in a twist? :) I always like that. :D
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. I'll send ya something..
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. So Judas was Jesus' excuse to suicide himself, and his
dying was all for show. That's what I read.
Heretofore (isthataword?) I thought Judas was the bad guy. :shrug:
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Jesus' death wasn't exactly "for show"
Gnostics drew a strong line of demarcation between the body and spirit. The body was a product of the inferior physical world, the realm of Ialdabaoth, the "Blind God," associated with the Yahweh of the Old Testament by the Gnostics. The spirit was part of the superior realm of the divine, of which Jesus was both a god and a messenger. Thus, by turning over Jesus to the Romans to face certain death, in a way, the Gnostics thought Judas was doing Jesus a favor by freeing him from the imprisonment of the physical and releasing him into the world of the real.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I bow to your knowledge, derby378. I'm not up on
religion, but was just being my cantankerous self. :)
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. This isnt exactly true
There is a lot of proof that Jesus did not die on the cross,he was taken down before sunset and revived and later went to France and England as did mary magdalene who was his wife.There are a lot of books with proof of these facts.The merovingian blood line decended from jesus and Mary
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Been reading the DaVinci Code, huh?
Good book.
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carl_pwccaman Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yeah, but
It's a good book, it's interesting.

I think it is certainly possible that there is some truth to some of the ancient history, Jesus married to Mary Magdalene, little known Pagan-looking stuff in ancient Judaism and early Christianity at its earliest.

I'm a Gnostic myself.

I would not assume much truth to the claims of a WORLDLY man about aristocratic lineage/bloodline claims that RULERS (Archons) make so often in This World.

But otherwise, there certainly was a lot of 'alternative' Christianity going around, and before that, quite a bit of 'alternative' Judaism, too, that people aren't aware of. Things were quite diverse in the 1st century.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Jesus
Said liberation comes through the death of the flesh prison.
He died because his flesh would die anyway.
And when his soul when home his empty flesh sack cried Lord,Why have you forsaken me?

Jesus's soul was NOT of this world. So his body was left behind..as all flesh is..
Jesus wanted to go home. He could not live in hiding forever playing cat and mouse. Judas freed Jesus. And if you look at other gnostic gospels along with the gospel of Judas, Judas may have been murdered by the apostles who worshipped the "other god" of this world who were mad at judas for betyraying thier"king" of the cult of personality they desired to make jesus be. That the orthodoxy later made it into..

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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Small point ...

The text was "found" over 30 years ago.

We're just now getting an English translation, but linguists and preservationists have been working on it since the turn of the century.



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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. So why is it now a new revelation? Does not compute. nt
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Because it has just been translated for public reading
And it upsets orthodoxy. and defies "traditional" chritianity as taught by "church authorities" that many people grew up with.
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carl_pwccaman Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Well it's not 'orthodox'
Whenever something 'unorthodox' is dug up, it ruffles feathers. And each text has its unique features, Gospel of Judas has some things about it that are fascinating to people who savor the other Gnostic finds.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I know
But for the public it is new.
I myself consider myself gnostic it is my natural understanding,and gnosis is so similar to what I felt was true deep inside befiore I read any of the Nag Hammadi or other texts...it fits.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. Speaking of Gnosticism, something to consider...
An interesting quote from Marilyn Manson:

America is dead already. But it doesn't see that it's dead. It's a ghost. America needs to be born again. That sounds almost Christian, doesn't it? In a way, I'm the ultimate paradox. I'm very much opposed to Christianity, but most of my values are something that Jesus might have preached.

I could be dead wrong, but this quote makes this Satanic clergyman sound more like a closet Gnostic - you know, that whole "Ialdabaoth vs. Jesus" paradigm. Your thoughts?
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. A thought


An interesting quote from Marilyn Manson:

America is dead already. But it doesn't see that it's dead. It's a ghost. America needs to be born again. That sounds almost Christian, doesn't it? In a way, I'm the ultimate paradox. I'm very much opposed to Christianity, but most of my values are something that Jesus might have preached.

I could be dead wrong, but this quote makes this Satanic clergyman sound more like a closet Gnostic - you know, that whole "Ialdabaoth vs. Jesus" paradigm. Your thoughts?

Well I am an ex member of the Church of Satan.

Satanism has a bit of gnostic wisdom in it. But they are not gnostic. They worship the flesh. They like some new agers think they are gods.. They are quite atheistic.. and boil everything down to power and domination.

The wisdom of the church of satan is found in not being hung up with purity,orthodoxy, or restraint. It is anti authoritarian, until they get into groups than they become very hierarchical in the name of being rebels.It's really strange.

In the Gospel of Judas Jesus refers to Ialdoboth as a "rebel and a fool" satanists exemplify this role well.

I have no doubt that some people could find gnosis through satanism. But as long as they love the earthly life and worship the flesh and confuse good and evil(some satanists are assholes and manipulators)they will stay trapped in this flesh.

Gnosis is about accepting this world is corrupt, the flesh is a prison holding souls here. America is dead in one way,but alive in another. Decadent evil thrives here in the consumer and authoritarian cultures,and it is coarsening the culture . Spirit and Soul are fading away here as the bodies with sould die and go home. I think there are less souls with true gnosis around...Now the texts come out because Ialdoboath is in such control of so many. It is not the same kind of threat as it was in the Roman Era when orthodoxy was threatened by people believing in it.. The Earth is being evacuated of souls..that is why the Earth is dying,global warming pollution and the like..Because there are not so many souls sustaining it,and there are a lot of empty fleshbags in control of society with power now.. The more Gnostic aspects of America are being dismantled by hierarchy and corrption in power. THe ideology of the Constitution is dead words now King George can dominate when the time is right and kill his enemies..anyone with Gnosis.. The rebel in America is suffering and building resentment under the weight of authoritarians... It could explode..and that for Gnostics mean a good tidings of liberation. A door is opening for mass liberation.And the authoritarian assholes in the whitehouse are self destructing and that means alot of people might die and thier souls go home .And it will hasten the end of this dualistic state of two essences that is so traumatic to souls trapped in bodies,.Materiality and soul are incompatible.And Yahweh will die along with it's creation once spirit"breath of Zoe" and soul is released when flesh dies.

If you look at the people in America you have many enablers perpetrators and bystanders to evil.
Than you have those who speak and fight against it but lack wisdom and have a confused sense of right and wrong..
They will be the catalysts for the ruin of many Americans.

And those who know and accept Gnosis that the flesh is nothing but a prison of the soul ,the cause of suffering ,and do not love this world and confuse flesh with who they really are,and know where they are from ,they will be liberated in the coming melee..when they die. And they will not be motivated by fear of death to act out like the others of this world will when survival takes over thier reason or minds and they become automatic and animalistic or crazy or sociopathic ..in self flesh defense or letting loose thier repressed sociopathic natures..
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Interesting perspective - thank you (n/t)
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Derby here is a link I
Thought you may enjoy..

Archons Hate our Freedoms
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/06/archons-hate-our-freedoms/
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. George W. Bush as the demiurge?
Very interesting, indeed - I daresay the name "Samael" would fit him perfectly!

:rofl:
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I hope you're wrong about that...fewer souls with gnosis
Edited on Mon Apr-10-06 01:39 AM by Raksha
coming into the world.

Re "Decadent evil thrives here in the consumer and authoritarian cultures,and it is coarsening the culture . Spirit and Soul are fading away here as the bodies with sould die and go home. I think there are less souls with true gnosis around...Now the texts come out because Ialdoboath is in such control of so many."

True gnostics suffer horribly with the living embodiment of Ialdabaoth in the White House, and all his archons running everything into the ground, and nobody apparently with the will or ability to stop them. I don't see the flesh and the physical world as evil per se, but I can totally relate to the Gnostic myth of an imposter-god who is a counterfeit of the true God.

In the past it was always a little bit abstract, but ever since Bush took office it's become in-your-face personal, and it's a constant source of pain. I guess that goes for everybody on DU no matter what their religion, but when you look at it through the prism of the Gnostic texts and creation myths it becomes even more poignant somehow. I had hoped in my lifetime to see "the world become the Aeon." I took that as a promise, trusted it and had faith in it. Yes, I had hope for this sad, imperfect world, but only because I believed a light from beyond the world was captured within it and illuminated it. Sometimes (like right now) I ask myself if I still believe that. I think I still do, but it gets harder all the time.

Edited to add: I just want you to know I enjoyed "Archons Hate Our Freedoms." SO true! Is that your blog?
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Thanky ,and more stuf..



Re "Decadent evil thrives here in the consumer and authoritarian cultures,and it is coarsening the culture . Spirit and Soul are fading away here as the bodies with sould die and go home. I think there are less souls with true gnosis around...Now the texts come out because Ialdoboath is in such control of so many."

True gnostics suffer horribly with the living embodiment of Ialdabaoth in the White House, and all his archons running everything into the ground, and nobody apparently with the will or ability to stop them. I don't see the flesh and the physical world Yep it does. This is the "terminal madness"as evil per se, but I can totally relate to the Gnostic myth of an imposter-god who is a counterfeit of the true God.

The sheer spiritual power of Gnosis was a covert challenge to the
ruling military-political powers. For it was capable of restoring a
sense of authentic spiritual communion between individuals that
transcend the ethnic, class and cultural divisions on which those powers rested.This is why the Gnostic movement was interfered with.

Well If you want to believe flesh is good remember that when it is in pain,or when it gets sick,it may not be the flesh's fault its weak and corrupt but it still torments...The archon controls people through flesh ,for it is it's creation. And all flesh weakens, ages and dies because it is corrupt.

Throughout one's life, one witnesses death and misery, war, violence, anarchy and corruption. Instrumentalities of organized religions, of municipalities and of governments seem to be there to set the stage for such atrocities, to finance them and, finally, if questioned about their existence, to give excuses and to plead their acceptance. Their hubris is poorly disguised hypocrisy. Victors glorify war, the vanquished forever plot revenge.

Just as a person learns enough to stop making simple mistakes, it is time to leave the scene, to die! What chance has anyone got to progress? You have struggled past the accidents and the injuries and the diseases. But why did you have to be burdened with them in the first place? As a child you saw many of your peers die. What chance did they have?

And now you are older, seeing even older ones suffering the effects of planned incompetence and obsolescence in the physical vehicle you have been given, called the marvellous human body. What is so marvellous about it? It starts to rot the moment you step into it. It loses its teeth, its sight, its hearing, its brain function, its locomotion, its cardiovascular ability, its aerobic ability and its continence in many cases. What is great about that? Do you not think a being who is worthy of the name "God" could do a better job?
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/prophecy/23/News/jan97.htm

In the past it was always a little bit abstract, but ever since Bush took office it's become in-your-face personal, and it's a constant source of pain. I guess that goes for everybody on DU no matter what their religion, but when you look at it through the prism of the Gnostic texts and creation myths it becomes even more poignant somehow.


Yep this is the beginning of the end..Have you seen the changes right before your eyes? In the sun,in people,in the environment, Mental illness is rampant,species going extinct,desertification,disease pollution,the sun is brighter more UV rays to hammer our DNA and force mutations, "dark time" that causes illness cancer,damn. Anyways
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2104022,00.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060408124233.htm


I had hoped in my lifetime to see "the world become the Aeon." I took that as a promise, trusted it and had faith in it. Yes, I had hope for this sad, imperfect world, but only because I believed a light from beyond the world was captured within it and illuminated it. Sometimes (like right now) I ask myself if I still believe that. I think I still do, but it gets harder all the time.

The spirit is trapped here..But the cage(the world) has to be broken and die so the souls stuck here can be freed and go home. Consiousness is freed when the matter trapping it dies. Because matter is corrupted and a cage it just dissolves when spirit leaves it. You might as well let it go now and do not mourn your bodily prison because eventually your body will die..regardless of what you want.For some death is the end for others death is the first gnosis to liberation, The Gospel of Judas speaks of this mystery.

Edited to add: I just want you to know I enjoyed "Archons Hate Our Freedoms." SO true! Is that your blog?

No, But I liked it too. So I thought you might also.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Panther
I once read that right now, the population of the earth is very close to the total population that has ever lived on the earth (humans) in the past ages.

Do you think this could be so? And if it is, is it significant?
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for the link
I will check it out.

The world needs enlightenment pronto. I hope more of the ancient texts are translated.

:hi:
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