Does Scott Adams have a legitimate point about religion here?

[Terran1212]

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com /

Excerpt:

This has to be an even bigger problem for those of you who have a religion of your own. You’re thinking something along the lines of “My prophet talked to a real angel whereas your prophet was evidently taking a drunken forest wiz and thought a tree stump was talking back to him.”

I also wonder if showing respect for all beliefs is causing more problems than it’s avoiding. The only thing that keeps most people from acting on their absurd beliefs is the fear that other people will treat them like frickin’ retards. Mockery is an important social tool for squelching stupidity. At least that’s what I tell people after I mock them. Or to put it another way, I’ve never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I’ve seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked.

Many of our biggest world problems are caused by different religious views. But it’s not socially acceptable to even discuss whether those views originate from the almighty or a drunken guy wizzing on a tree stump. At a bare minimum, just to pick one example, either Christianity or Islam is completely and utterly wrong. The beliefs are mutually exclusive. Muslim’s believe all Christians will burn in Hell. Christians believe that the Koran is fiction. They can’t both be right. (They could obviously both be wrong if the Heaven’s Gate guys turn out to have it right.)

I fantasize about becoming President one day and insisting on settling the question of which religion is “right.” I’d assemble all the experts on history and religious and science, and televise them arguing the merits and evidence of their sides, with cross-examination and – most important – mocking. There would be no stop date for this debate. It would continue until even a child could recognize which positions are the most easily mocked. Sometimes that’s as close to wisdom as we can get.


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I responded to his post but it has yet to be put up. I basically told him that respecting one's religious beliefs is very important, and even though you are very intelligent and funny, the way you're talking about it IS disrespectful.

[tatertop]

1. Muslims definitely do NOT "believe all Christians will burn in Hell."

He got one thing right: right wing fundies do believe everyone
but right wing fundies will burn in hell.

His writing is puerile in the extreme
(and he needs to hire a proof reader).

[okasha]

2. Having a point is dependent on knowing what you're talking about.

This guy doesn't. Eg., "Muslim’s believe all Christians will burn in Hell."

"I fantasize about becoming President one day and insisting on settling the question of which religion is “right.” I’d assemble all the experts on history and religious and science, and televise them arguing the merits and evidence of their sides, with cross-examination and – most important – mocking. There would be no stop date for this debate. It would continue until even a child could recognize which positions are the most easily mocked. Sometimes that’s as close to wisdom as we can get."

This is basically how Prince Vladimir chose Orthodox Christianity as Russia's official religion. That worked out really well, especially for the serfs. :sarcasm:

[bluesbassman]

3. Religion vs. Belief

There has been a lot of debate the past few days about respecting others religion and beliefs. I'd like to add my viewpoint. First, one does not necessarily have to believe in a "religion" to practice it. Second if you truly believe in something, whether it's God, Allah or the non-existence of any Deity, then your belief is your own. No one can truly mock that belief because they can not possibly know what drives you to believe what you do. The mockery is therefore based on the mocker's perception, and so becomes their belief. Your belief is not threatened because it is your belief and the mockery is based on the mocker's belief.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Amen!

You are so correct that no one can really understand what drives another to have particular beliefs and perceptions. The best we can do is to try and have empathy; to "walk a mile in their moccasins", or to endeavor to the best of one's own ability to see things from another viewpoint. I think it is important for a person to also realize: "Your belief is not threatened"-this is so true. If someone questions or mocks your belief system, and it gives you discomfort, then it is time for you to look inside yourself to determine why it is bothering you. (This is not always an easy task, I assure you; but the benefits of clarified thinking can be extremely helpful.)

[bluesbassman]

10. You're right, sometimes we need to look at our beliefs....

critically, and if being mocked is the catalyst to that end then maybe it's not a bad thing.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. I often get my belief system jolted here

Some posters say things that hit me the wrong way, and I have to sit back and ask myself why. Usually it is based on some belief system or other, like you say-and I just have to realize that their belief system (including what is and isn't rude) is just that-simply theirs.

[bluesbassman]

13. So do I...

and that's one of the reasons I come here. Different perspectives, viewpoints and beliefs are all good for keeping you on your toes. Otherwise I think people tend to get into a position where they are susceptible to the dogma, false teaching and "party lines" that causes them to have the "loony beliefs" that get mocked so often.

[happydreams]

8. Respecting others right to talk BS.

OK, as long as I get to call it what it is, namely religion is BS.

[bluesbassman]

9. Sure, because that's your belief.

And you are definitely entitled to it. But it does not threaten how I believe at all. BTW, I agree that a lot of what is being pawned of as "religion" is BS, But again, that's my belief!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Concepts versus reality

What this fellow is dealing with are concepts of religion-and he appears to have made up his mind that people of whatever faith think theirs is the only true faith. Although there are many who believe this way, they are by no means everyone. The Unity Church is one Christian sect that acknowledges all paths lead to God; the Uniterian/Universalists have similar ideas, as do certain Reform Jews, certain Native Americans, and Sufis.

What I have found is that those who are fully involved in their spiritual path, whatever it is, seem to grasp a different concept of God, one that shows That as ominpresent, residing both within ones own heart and also in all of creation. This sort of perspective then views the different religions and science merely as different manifestations of the The One

[salvorhardin]

5. Scott Adams is a moron n/t

[starroute]

7. He does have *some* kind of point

Granted he's being pretty playground level about expressing it. But there are far too many people around today who seem to be saying, in effect, "I believe -- but don't dare mock me for it, or I might lose my faith." Or else, "I choose to believe in something that has no basis in visible fact -- but if you dare to say so, I'll take it as a personal insult." Or "I believe devoutly in a theory that some science geek of 6000 years ago laid out after staying up all night watching the stars, and that ought to be given equal status with the theories of present day science geeks armed with 6000 years worth of additional data and experiments."

In short, the concept of "belief" seems to have become detached from best knowledge and become a means of sanctifying ignorance and wilful stupidity. And since neither niceness nor brute force seems like a particularly effective technique for getting it back, laughing the idiots out of court might just be the only alternative.

[Kailassa]

12. These days Xtians believe they have a right to insult

everybody in the name of their religion, yet any criticism of their religion, or of the way in which the misuse it, has become socially unacceptable.

The Poop in the Vatican has used his Easter message, traditionally a message of love and hope, to tell vicious lies about gay people, and call for their extermination.

Thanks to these sort of people, the mocking of any unprovable beliefs, that are used as a weapon against others, has become necessary.

[NMMNG]

14. Bingo

They call gays perverts and abominations. Call women who get abortions killers and whores. Call atheists untrustworthy and immoral. They defend their "right" to do so by calling these opinions part of their "deeply held religious beliefs".

But if anyone says anything the slightest bit critical of their religion the whining about "religious persecution" and the demands for "tolerance" (where they show none) begin.

[OneBlueSky]

15. "They can’t both be right" . . .

no . . . but they can both be wrong . . .

[beam me up scottie]

16. Scott Adams is an ID-iot.

That fact alone is enough for me to disregard anything he has to say about religion.

Or science.

[catbert836]

17. Ummm.... where has he stated that?

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting "ID-iot". Whatever.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Here:

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2005/11/intelligent_des.html

You also might want to check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=35543

;)

[catbert836]

19. Dammit, and to think my username comes from his comic.

It's so hard when you realize someone you've admired for a long time is a fucking moron. :cry:

[beam me up scottie]

20. Oh, no!

I didn't even realize why you were upset!

And, yeah, we were pretty crushed too.

It's okay to keep your user name, catbert, his characters are genuinely funny.