Check out this crazy Muslim fanatic!

[onager]

:sarcasm:

As most of you know, I'm living in Egypt on a long-term assignment. As ranted elsewhere, I am a Grumpy Atheist who is currently in the somewhat ironic position of trusting my life to Muslims every day.

I'm baffled by some of the anti-Muslim screeds I've been reading recently on DU. As an atheist, I don't really have a god in this fight. But as a humanist...I hope...I always try to concentrate on what I have in common with people, rather than our differences.

No, I would not want to argue that point with a Muslim fanatic waving an AK-47 at me. No more than I would want to argue it with an American Xian who is about to hurl a firebomb into a women's clinic. But most Muslims that I deal with every day don't fit the first stereotype, any more than most American Xians fit the second.

Anyway, I thought y'all might enjoy this article in today's Egyptian Gazette. It was written by Dr. Mohammed Ahmed Nasr, a surgeon who writes a semi-regular column for the paper.

Oh, and as the good doctor says, Happy Sham el-Nassim!!! That's an Egyptian holiday dating back to the days of Pharoahs, which celebrates the first day of spring. You'll never guess how they celebrate it--by giving colored eggs to the kiddies. Gee, it seems like I may have heard that one somewhere before...

I've edited out some of Dr. Nasr's comments that are only specific to Egypt today. To provide some context--just last week Alexandria was wracked by truly ugly riots between Muslims and Xians. As I write, just a few blocks from my hotel, regiments of Riot Police are standing guard in the streets.

On to the article, in italics:

Sham el-Nessim, the Feast Of Spring, dates back to Pharonic times. It is the only feast common to all members of Egyptian society, whether Muslims, Christians or Jews.

All religions celebrate the coming of spring. Let us all this year try to allow this feast to mark a new era of tolerance, peace and understanding among us all...

Islam came to preach tolerance, equality and the use of rational thinking to reach the relative truth. Throughout history, many Muslims have forgotten the true meaning of Islamic laws, sticking to the word, not the spirit. They've also confused the practice of their religion and the circumstances of the Arab society in which the Prophet Mohammed was living.

It is impossible to try to impose the habits or social circumstances of the Quraishi community of the Prophet Mohammed nearly 1,400 years ago on the communities of the 21st century.

The general rules of Islamic law do not change, but their applications differ from one country to another and from one century to another. That's why most Islamic governments in different countries have failed, delaying their countries' progress...

Look for example at the Taliban Government in Afghanistan. They tried to impose the dress and habits of the community of the Prophet on their society. The harm they did to their country was huge.

Modern societies have their own dress codes, their own habits and their own laws that may respect the general rules of their religion, applying that religion according to the laws of the 21st century...

Many university professors publish articles in major newspapers, in which they try to explain religion by science. These articles are riddled with mistakes, but no one dares criticize them.

It is extremely important to distinguish rational from irrational proposals and to adopt the philosophical methodology of Descartes. It is high time philosophy and the methodology of rational thinking were taught at all our schools.

We need to broaden the culture and knowledge of our youth, opening Egyptian doors to other international cultures. A policy of closing the doors on different world cultures is more harmful than beneficial.

[LaurenG]

1. How sad. Religious wars again or should I say still.

"just last week Alexandria was wracked by truly ugly riots between Muslims and Xians. As I write, just a few blocks from my hotel, regiments of Riot Police are standing guard in the streets."

Good article though.

[onager]

2. Thanks! There's some talk here...

...that Alexandria is being deliberately targeted by religious fanatics.

That's certainly the opinion among many residents I know. They are just sad about the riots. I must have heard a thousand times in the last week: "This kind of thing doesn't happen in Alexandria. Everybody gets along here."

They're not exaggerating. I'd bet I could walk down the street right now...and I'm about to do that...and I'll see girls wearing the hijab (Muslim head-covering) walking arm-in-arm with girls wearing Xian crosses around their necks. Along with Western-dressed gals not displaying any religious symbology. Probably more of those damn atheists...:-)

It's undeniably true that Muslim fanatics just HATE this city. For one thing it has a rich pre-Islamic history, and few things piss off those fanatics more than anything pre-Islamic. They describe that as "The Time Of Error And Ignorance." i.e., the time when the Alexandria Library had Erastothenes calculating the circumference of the Earth to within 50 meters, Heron drawing up prototypes for the steam engine, and one of the most amazing scientific creations of the ancient world, Alexandria's Pharos Lighthouse.

For another thing, Alexandria is famous as the most cosmopolitan, liberal and outward-looking city in Egypt. In the fanatical Muslim viewpoint, it probably occupies about the same place as San Francisco or NYC does to crazy American Xian Fundies. Until fairly recently this city had large populations of foreigners and Jews. And the Jews got here many centuries before the Muslims. Their residency dates from the founding of Alexandria in the Fourth Century BCE. (There's that "Time Of Error And Ignorance" again...)

You can even walk around Alexandria's beautiful old cemeteries...the ones developers haven't destroyed, anyway...and find tombstones over the graves of admitted freethinkers.

That must REALLY annoy the religiosos...

[xchrom]

3. modernity and rationality pisses off fundies everywhere.

thank you for the article.

we don't hear nearly enough from the many muslims who think like this guy.

i travel to europe often -- and this is a great example of the kind of thinking among muslims that i experience there.

but we never hear about them -- and all to often they are having to ''defend'' the indefensible. i.e. impressions of the islamic world because the media will only talk in generalities -- which of course only keeps everyone stupid.

[tocqueville]

5. Very true, specially in France

where the separation of Church and State is Holy (pun intented). I tried to explain on DU that many French "muslims" (I prefer the expression French "with north-african background") discussed the story of the cartoons from the frredom of expression point-of-view and maybe the pretended xenophobic aspect, or from the political implications, but never from the blasphemy point of view. Same with the veil story. I wasn't really understood. But facts talk for themselves : the vast majority of European muslims (practicing or not practicing) weren't outraged by the cartoons except for a few extremist fringe groups trying to exploit the event for their political agenda.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Have you seen the article in Raw Story about "extremist atheists"?

Discussion in GD: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1007330

The Raw Story op-ed piece: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/The_lefts_own_religious_whackjobs_0422.html

You may find it interesting, because it starts with a redefinition of 'secular' that a Frenchman may find particularly hilarious, and ends with a dire warning to American liberals that if they don't watch out, extremist atheist whackjobs will subvert American democracy, and do something like follow France into banning religious apparel in public places (her over-simplification, not mine). And this comes from someone who calls herself a liberal, published on a 'progressive' (and 'rational') website.

[xchrom]

8. do these people actually GO to france?

i am amazed -- sometimes i think the france that idiots like these are talking about is someplace else -- on a differnt planet or through a time warp or something.

[Proud_Democratt]

9. Extreme Atheism is not a problem in the U.S.

The religious majority of the U.S. is Christianity at about 85%.
Draw your own conclusions to whom the extremists are here.

[xchrom]

7. that's my european experience period.

i have a very very dear friend in london who has many muslim women friends.

she's always been very involved in womens issues{she travels to africa often.} -- and you know in my many, many dinner conversations not one has ever played the god trump card.

[trotsky]

4. Great article.

I am no Muslim expert, but I've never heard anyone put the fundie Islamic rules in the context only of Mohammed's community. Too bad more Muslims (and Christians) can't see how important context is.

[Proud_Democratt]

10. Check out this crazy Christian fanatic!!!!!!!!!

[NMMNG]

11. Very nice article

This paragraph is important:

Islam came to preach tolerance, equality and the use of rational thinking to reach the relative truth. Throughout history, many Muslims have forgotten the true meaning of Islamic laws, sticking to the word, not the spirit. They've also confused the practice of their religion and the circumstances of the Arab society in which the Prophet Mohammed was living.


Change a few words and:

Christianity came to preach tolerance, equality and the use of rational thinking to reach the relative truth. Throughout history, many Christians have forgotten the true meaning of Christian laws, sticking to the word, not the spirit. They've also confused the practice of their religion and the circumstances of the Israeli society in which Jesus Christ was living.