Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What are we going to do with all of THESE whackjobs

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:12 AM
Original message
What are we going to do with all of THESE whackjobs
I have finally seen the light. I know what Raw Story is talking about. There are whackjobs out there that say religion is a bad thing. They need to be stopped. Here is a collection of very vocal people that fall right into the category Raw Story was talking about. What are we to do with the likes of these:

Let's get rid of all the whackjobs:

Thomas Jefferson
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774


John Adams
"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."


Thomas Jefferson
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."


George Washington
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."
- letter to Edward Newenham, 1792


Ben Franklin
"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it."


Thomas Paine
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."


How in the world will the country get ANYWHERE with the likes of these?

Please, lala and Will, PLEASE tell me how we can deal with whackjobs like these. I don't want the likes of these people giving the Republicans ammunition to use against us in the next elections. How do we convince these people that it is time to stand shoulder to shoulder?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. A favorite contemporary whackjob: Gore Vidal
http://www.isebrand.com/Gore_Vidal_Monotheism_1992.htm

The great unmentionable evil at the center of our culture is monotheism. From a barbaric Bronze Age text known as the Old Testament, three anti-human religions have evolved --Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These are sky-god religions. They are, literally, patriarchal --God is the omnipotent father-- hence the loathing of women for 2,000 years in those countries afflicted by the sky-god and his earthly male delegates. The sky-god is a jealous god, of course. He requires total obedience from everyone on earth, as he is in place not for just one tribe but for all creation. Those who would reject him must be converted or killed for their own good. Ultimately, totalitarianism is the only sort of politics that can truly serve the sky-god's purpose. Any movement of a liberal nature endangers his authority and that of his delegates on earth. One God, one King, one Pope, one master in the factory, one father-leader in the family home.

The founders of the United States were not enthusiasts of the sky-god. Many, like Jefferson, rejected him altogether and placed man at the center of the world. The young Lincoln wrote a pamphlet against Christianity, which friends persuaded him to burn. Needless to say, word got around about both Jefferson and Lincoln and each had to cover his tracks. Jefferson said he was a deist, which could mean anything or nothing, while Lincoln, hand on heart and tongue in cheek, said he could not support for office anyone who "scoffed" at religion.

From the beginning, sky-godders have always exerted great pressure in our secular republic. Also, evangelical Christian groups have traditionally drawn strength from the suppressed. African slaves were allowed to organise heavenly sky-god churches, as a surrogate for earthly freedom. White churches were organised in order to make certain that the rights of property were respected and that the numerous religious taboos in the New and Old Testaments would be enforced, if necessary, by civil law. The ideal to which John Adams subscribed --that we should be a nation of laws, not of men-- was quickly subverted when the churches forced upon everyone, through supposedly neutral and just laws, their innumerable taboos on sex, alcohol, gambling. We are now indeed a nation of laws, mostly bad and certainly anti-human.

Roman Catholic migrations in the last century further re-enforced the Puritan sky-god. The Church has also put itself on a collision course with the Bill of Rights when it asserts as it always has, that "error has no rights." The last correspondence between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson expressed their alarm that the Jesuits were to be allowed into the United States. Although the Jews were sky-god folk, they followed Book One, not Book Two, so they have no mission to convert others; rather the reverse. Also, as they have been systematically demonized by the Christian sky-godders, they tended to be liberal and so turned not to their temple but to the A.C.L.U. Unfortunately, the recent discovery that the sky-god, in his capacity as realtor, had given them, in perpetuity, some parcels of unattractive land called Judea and Samaria has, in my mind, unhinged many of them. I hope this is temporary.

In the First Amendment to the Constitution the Founders made it clear that this was not to be a sky-god nation with a national religion like that of England, from whom we had just separated. It is curious how little understood this amendment is --yes, everyone has a right to worship any god he chooses but he does not have the right to impose his beliefs on others who do not happen to share in his superstitions and taboos. This separation was absolute in our original Republic. But the sky-godders do not give up easily. In the 1950's they actually got the phrase "In God We Trust" onto the currency, in direct violation of the First Amendment.

Although many of the Christian evangelists feel it necessary to convert everyone on earth to their primitive religion, they have been prevented --so far-- from forcing others to worship as they do but they have forced --most tyrannically and wickedly-- their superstitions and hatreds upon all of us through the civil law and through general prohibitions. So it is upon account that I now favour an all-out war on the monotheists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I cannot believe
Vidal would divide the party like that. What a whackjob. I have Raw Story calls him out soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Goldwater said it best
"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country."

"I look at these religious television shows," he said, "and they are raising big money on God. One million, three million, five million - they brag about it. I don't believe in that. It's not a very religious thing to do."

"When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

"Well, I've spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the 'Old Conservatism.' And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics. The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength."
--------------------------------------

I didn't have a whole lot of use for Goldwater's brand of conservatism when it came to the role of government versus the economy and government protecting the people against the powerful. He certainly foresaw what was about to happen to his party. It's a pity they didn't listen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Great stuff - thanks.
Here's where to find these and more of AuH2O's anti-religious right quotes:
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/goldwater.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thomas Jefferson put his own Bible together from the parts he liked.
Edited on Fri Apr-28-06 06:25 AM by bloom
He seemed to actually be able to find some good in religion. Unlike the atheist whackjobs who cannot.


P.S. Maybe he got to being a whackjob later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. WHOOOOOOOOSH
Don't you think the quotations I gave are EXACTLY like what Raw Story was bitching about? Don't you think that sheds a whole new light on their "editorial." Maybe their term "whackjob" is more in line with something like "founding father." If what Raw Story describes is what a whackjob is, and the people I quoted are whackjobs, then thank you for calling me a whackjob and making yourself look stupid Raw Story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I guess the founding fathers
were considered whackjobs at the time, weren't they?

Good quotes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well Paine was a Unitarians and the others were sort of also
We have been fighting reason over faith for a long time. The best thing about reason is that they usually leave the faith based thinking to those who want it but the faith based people never do the same for reason. That was why the founding father wanted the church out of gov. and no laws make against churches. Usually in our history we have kept the churches in line but it does get ahead of us every so often. I my self think it will go back the way it was but it will be a big fight as the churches got so much power right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I don't think religion can be 'stopped'
but it can certainly be legislated and it should be.

It doesn't take a mental giant to understand that the freedom to worship or not worship has to extend to everyone.

And frankly, I'll be a democratic elitist here. What we're talking about is ... brains. Some folks just don't have any.

I'm a Christian myself, so I'm not painting with THAT broad a brush, but I want religion out of the school and the public so that I know my freedom is protected. Sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against granite. Why can't they see?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. But, but, this nation was founded on Christianity by Gawd-fearing
patriots!

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. I've obviously missed something
What is this "Raw Story" of which you speak, and can you provide any links? Thanks. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. K & R. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-28-06 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Locking
This is a continuation of a flame war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC