Other differing thoughts on prayer

[Orrex]

A voyaging ship was wrecked during a storm at sea and only two of the men on it were able to swim to a small, desert-like island with a tiny trickle of a stream running from the mountain. The two survivors, not knowing what else to do, agree that they had no other recourse but to pray to God. However, to find out whose prayer was more powerful, they agreed to divide the territory between them and stay on opposite sides of the island.

The first thing they prayed for was food. The next morning, the island remained barren.

Then they realized that they should have prayed for more water, so that night they did so. The next morning, the island remained nearly parched, as did the men.

After a few days they were both ravenously hungry and very nearly dehydrated. But still they maintained their faith, and still they prayed.

After a week, delusional and suffering from heatstroke, the first man prayed for a chocolate jellyfish as tall as the sky, while the second man prayed for a wicker basket under which he could crawl in case of infiltration. In the morning, neither had appeared.

A few days later a ship happened to be passing, and a landing party found the two men near death. They rescued the castaways, brought them aboardship, and gave them prompt medical attention.

"Our prayers have been answered," said the first castaway.

"How so?" asked the ship's captain. "Did you pray for a ship?"

"Well, no," admitted the man, "but we prayed for food and water, and here you are."

"I see," the captain said indulgently. "Well, we were just doing what any compassionate person would do."

A few days later the castaways had recovered enough to stroll the deck, when they bumped into the captain again.

"What's this vessel's mission, by the way?" asked the second castaway.

"It's a leisure cruise," said the captain. "Every year we host a meeting-at-sea of the Atheists Fanatics Inquisition Board."

edited to correct a typo

[murray hill farm]

1. If you pray that gods will be done,

then all your prayers will be answered...or so it will seem.

[Orrex]

2. And if I don't pray for that...

Will god's will not be done?

[murray hill farm]

3. depends on if you believe gods will is done.

what is, is! What is not, is not! You are the interpreter.

[Orrex]

4. With all due respect, that's not good enough

Either God is or is not, regardless of my interpretation. To suggest otherwise is, first of all, to suggest that God--the so-called "Supreme Being"--is subordinate to my perceptions. Second, it suggests that the question of existence is resolved based on one's chosen interpretation of it. Sorry, but if I drop an anvil on your foot, you're free to interpret the anvil as a helium balloon, but your foot will still be broken.

Regarding questions about any supreme entity, I need more than tricks of semantics.

[murray hill farm]

11. well, try this!

to attempt to define god, would be your need, not god's. you are a being unlike any other human being..your experiences, genetics,the culture u are born into, etc. are all unique and like no other human beings...now or in the past or in the future. it is your interpretation of existance..your existance that is your responsibility on earth. you will never define god...and to seek it outside of your own being is useless and will be a fruitless and spiritually frustrating goal. It is only your interpretation that counts and that will be of use to you in this life. An anvil is a thing that we can scientifically agree on as a thing that exists...and by the old test that if three people agree on what it is, etc. it is real. if you wish to find god, look into yourself..god is there.

[cosmik debris]

12. That still sounds like semantic tricks to me.

But I can't tell for sure. I miss the old days when people used sentences and paragraphs for written communication. I guess I am showing my advanced age.

[Orrex]

13. If God presumes to be my creator, then he'd better speak up for himself

God may not feel that he needs to define himself, but if the eternal souls of his allegedly beloved children are hanging in the balance, it would be the height of cruelty for Him to hide behind riddles that are better suited to Philosophy 101 than to a serious discussion of the existence of the divine. Any entity that would presume to judge any other had better first demonstrate its own existence.

And as for "looking into yourself?" Well, that doesn't really cut it, either. My existence, such as it is, is proof only of my own existence. God has to fend for himself on that one.

As has been noted previously, you're still relying on semantic trickery.

[murray hill farm]

16. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, that god!

the father god, the cruel god, the judgemental god! We are semantically discussing apples and oranges here. I dont acknowlege that god at all...so, my mistake.

[cosmik debris]

17. Does god require your acknowledgement?

I'm just curious.

[murray hill farm]

18. No!

[cosmik debris]

19. Please explain the relevance of your statement:

"I dont acknowledge that god at all"

[murray hill farm]

20. define "relevance"!

relevant to who..to what?

[cosmik debris]

21. I just want to know what you mean.

It is not evident from the context.

[murray hill farm]

25. well..maybe we could continue this discussion via email..

rather than ongoing post replies. But basically the relevancy of my connection with my "god" is relevant only to me...as your connection is relevant only to you. The idea of the cruel,judgmental, father god was one i long ago dismissed as useless to me as a human being and a spiritual being. But that is me...and about me...and i would hope that what I believe does only have relevance to me and that another human being would find god within themselves and not through me or any other source.

[trotsky]

5. Hey, there's a point to that story, isn't there?

Let me just think about it some more. :)

[NMMNG]

6. There's an adaptation of a classic I recall

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.

Teach a man to pray and he'll die of starvation praying for fish.


Edit to add content.

[varkam]

7. That reminds me...

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

Teach a man to fish, wait a few weeks, then kill the man - Hey! Free fish!

[NMMNG]

9. I never heard that one before

:rofl:


But there is this one:





Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

[varkam]

10. !

:rofl:

[cynatnite]

8. Four years ago I prayed my oldest daughter wasn't pregnant...

I'm an agnostic so I have no idea who it was :shrug:

[catbert836]

14. If there is a God...

He's going to let us figure out how to take care of ourselves.

[Orrex]

23. Which is, frankly, no different from the utter lack of a God

In light of that fact, and in the absence of extraordinary evidence that God exists (in whatever concept of "god" we choose to embrace), I have no basis to conclude that he really does exist.

Maybe I'll have to go on that cruise next year.

[catbert836]

24. Or if there is...

he's unwilling or unable to interfere in the affairs of mere humans.

[Ron Green]

15. What if praying is something other than begging?

Some people's idea of prayer is that is has to do with asking for something, as a child would of his parent. Maybe prayer is more about being in touch with something that is always there, but perceived only with reflection and study and practice, practice, practice.

[Orrex]

22. Well...

Did you see the earlier thread that this current one is lampooning? The author of that thread posted a parable about two men likewise stuck on a desert island. I won't spoil the punchline for you, but it explicitly had to do with the two men using prayer to ask for things.

If we think of prayer merely as a way of voicing one's thoughts or as an apostrophe to a person, force, or concept not immediately present, then that's fine. But it's a far cry from the notion of prayer put forth in that other thread.

Even here on DU we often see public pleas for "prayers" or "good thoughts" in the wake of a personal difficulty. I'm not so boorish as to begrudge anyone who would seek or offer such support, but I'm given to wonder how these "prayers" and "good wishes" differ from begging, or at least from beseeching.

[Ron Green]

26. OK, I just checked out the other thread, and I get it now.

I don't go for the mawkishly sentimental stuff, either, that seems to be the hallmark of fundamental Western religion. I hope for more tolerance and civility on this particular forum, but I suppose it's too much fun to snipe and carp about stuff that can't be proved.

:-)

[Orrex]

27. Now you've got it!

I wouldn't have bothered with this copycat thread were it not for the original poster's snipe at the Atheist Inquisition, or whatever he called it. After that, I figured that the subject of prayer-for-goodies was fair game!

:evilgrin: