Does the Bible mention/hint that souls of the saved 'become' angels?

[expatriot]

I am thinking this is a myth, an assumption of popular faith that those who go 'up' to heaven naturally become God's little angels. Can anybody help me out here? Scripture pro/con.

[Teaser]

1. no evidence in the Christian scriptures

angels, specifically, are refered to in the old testament as beni elohim (b'ne alhim...sons of el/elohim...one of God's names). They are consistently regarded as "things apart." At times the distinction between the beni elohim and El(ohim) himself is somewhat thin.

[Sequoia]

2. While I can't point at a verse my answer is NO.

Angels are like androids although they appear to have male names.

[thereismore]

3. No. The Bible says the souls will be given glorified bodies -

physical bodies like ours, only much "improved." Angels are a separate creation from people.

[Joe for Clark]

4. No it doesn't.

Not angels.

The one thing for sure the scripture does say, emphatically - The greatest "rule" - you better treat the least of your brothers as you would him. It is the "big one".

From a so-so Catholic,

Joe

[Igel]

27. Actually, that's the #2 rule.

Fascinating that people seldom realize what the number #1 rule is.

[Warpy]

5. Angels were the servant class, created first

long before fallible humans were created.

There is no way for a human to become an angel, and no way for an angel to become human. They're separate species.

[El Supremo]

6. No, but 'It's a Wonderful Life' does. n/m

[RevCheesehead]

7. Nope.

One woman in my church was disappointed... she said "I want wings."
I replied, "If you want wings, you'll need a panty liner."

[DeSwiss]

9. Or, she can try Popeyes. I love their wings... n/t

:shrug:

[davidinalameda]

19. oh no

:rofl:

[ChickMagic]

8. Supposedly, before Noah's flood

Angels were smitten with human women. They did reproduce and
produced giants. That was the great sin that had to be wiped
out. Hence, the veils that women must wear to prevent angels
from admiring their hair. Seriously. That's the deal.

[DeSwiss]

10. Ahhh yes, the Nephilim...

Nephilim
by Judd H. Burton

Genesis 6:4 states "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days --and also afterwards-- when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." The Nephilim were a race of giants that were produced by the sexual union of the sons of God (presumably fallen angels) and the daughters of men. Translated from the Hebrew texts, "Nephilim" means "fallen ones." They were renowned for their strength, prowess, and a great capacity for sinfulness.

The origination of the Nephilim begins with a story of the fallen angels. Shemhazai, an angel of high rank, led a sect of angels in a descent to earth to instruct humans in righteousness. The tutelage went on for a few centuries, but soon the angels pined for the human females. After lusting, the fallen angels instructed the women in magic and conjuring, mated with them, and produced hybrid offspring: the Nephilim.

The Nephilim were gigantic in stature. Their strength was prodigious and their appetites immense. Upon devouring all of humankind's resources, they began to consume humans themselves. The Nephilim attacked and oppressed humans and were the cause of massive destruction on the earth.

Two texts of central import to the story of the Nephilim, the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, mention several names for the Nephilim. The diverse kinds of these giants are cited in several passages. They are variously referred to as Emim, or "Terrors" (Gen. 14:5; Deut. 2:10), Rephaim, or "Weakeners" or "Dead Ones" (2 Sam. 23:13; 1 Chron. 11:15), Gibborim, or "Giant Heroes" (Job 16:4), Zamzummim, or "Achievers" (Deut. 2:10), Anakim, or "Long-necked" (Deut. 2:10; Josh. 11:22, 14:15), and Awwim or "Devastators" and "Serpents." Other giants are mentioned in these texts as well, such as Goliath (2 Sam. 21:19), a giant with twelve fingers and twelve toes who is mentioned as one of the Rephaim (2 Sam. 21:20), and a tall Egyptian (1 Chron. 11:23). The passage of Numbers 13:26-33 recounts the Nephilim of Canaan that Joshua and the other Hebrew spies saw. Furthermore, according to Judaic lore, a certain one of the Nephilim, Arba, built a city, Kiriath Arba, which was named for its builder and is now known as Hebron.

The wickedness of the Nephilim carried with it a heavy toll. Genesis 6:5 alludes to the corruption that the Nephilim had caused amongst humans and themselves: "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become..." Their evil rebellion had incurred both the wrath and grief of God. God instructed the angel Gabriel to ignite a civil war among the Nephilim. He also chose Enoch, a righteous man, to inform the fallen angels of the judgment pronounced on them and their children. God did not allow the fallen angels any peace, for they could not lift their eyes to heaven and were later to be chained. The end of the Nephilim came about in the war incited by Gabriel, in which the giants eventually annihilated each other.

Source(s):

1. Bible, Zondervan: Grand Rapids, 1991
2. Revell Concise Bible Dictionary, Fleming H. Revell Company: Tarrytown, NY, 1984
3. Graves, Robert, Hebrew Myths: The Book of Genesis: 1964
4. Ginzberg, Louis, et al, The Legends of the Jews, Johns Hopkins University Press: 1998
5. Florentino Garcia Martinez (trans.), The Dead Sea Scrolls: 1996
- Book of Enoch
- The Book of Giants

[ChickMagic]

21. Thank you for that excellent resource

I knew the basic story, but all this detail is quite enlightening.

[FooFootheSnoo]

29. very interesting

I've never heard about that before.

[melnjones]

15. If you're referring to the Corinthians passage about head coverings,

there are scholars that would disagree that "angels" were a reason women were to wear a covering or "have authority over her head." It makes just as much if not more sense to translate the greek word for angels as messengers (the Greek word had both meanings), and in the context it is possible that people either from the temple or from the government were spying on what was going on in the new and strange Christian groups and then reporting it back to others.

[ChickMagic]

22. But there is disagreement

Most of the biblical scholars I have spoken with have said that
it was a direct relationship to the lust the fallen angels had
for human females. Some say exactly what you have said. I'm
sure it had a human/political purpose, but the story has to
frighten women into covering up, wouldn't you think?

[melnjones]

24. I agree

that either story would probably suffice to get the point across, and you're right, there is disagreement. The "messenger" theory is a newer one and I've only seen it in the more recent scholarship. I just think it makes more sense in the context. Chapter 11 is dealing with issues of order in worship, and I think it is logical that one of the reasons order would be necessary is to keep them from appearing like the goddess cults and other pagan cults to the authorities. The authorities would have been quite curious about what was going on behind closed doors in the Christian church...it seems more likely that Paul was referencing "spies" sent in to report back to the authorities what was going on than referencing the nephalim...which doesn't make sense contextually and is not mentioned anywhere else in the NT. Just my thoughts though.

[sui generis]

11. this is where it all breaks down for me

so saved from what?

and exactly WHY would the devil roast you eternally in hell for being evil? If I were the fundie version of satan I'd give them a raise and a bonus plus a couple of days off.

And why exactly is it that "evil" is predestined to battle "good"? It seems to me that evil is pretty preoccupied with selfish goals, and fighting banal wars does nothing to increase one's personal wealth or collection of antique automobiles or whatever it is they're really into.

If I were evil, I sure could care less about all this heaven and hell crap. That's for sheep. Good sheep or evil sheep, they're all sheep.

Likewise, if I were truly good I would share the same view. How can someone who is "truly good" advocate the end of the world, advocate this discriminatory process of "getting into heaven" based on how many heathens, pagans, infidel (and other protestants :evilgrin:) you converted, "saved", or killed while you were alive.

I'm thinking these archetypal iconic angel and demon things - they have an agenda all their own that probably has very little to do with humans either way; a way for us to presume an agenda beyond our comprehension to explain what we don't understand.

Since I am neither truly evil or truly good, but merely truly human, I have to say I don't really care about the agendas of demons or angels, about my previous lives or the afterlife, even if I could prove they existed. All I care about is what will move me in my final days - what memories I may have, and that hopefully in my pursuit of humanity that the balance of things I am proud of will exceed the balance of things I regret.

[Joe for Clark]

14. You know I am pretty sure it doesn'[t say anything like

that about hell - thats kind of a middle ages twist. I am pretty sure, but then again, I really screwed around alot in CCD (sunday school) -

Joe

[sui generis]

23. of course it doesn't

if it did there wouldn't be any questions for clerics to have a job answering. And um, the bible is in fact a published product of the early middle ages.

[DeSwiss]

12. Nope. Sorry, ain't gonna happen...

Angels

In many religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it is believed that between God and mankind there are intermediary beings, called angels. They are bodiless entities that perform certain tasks for God and are commonly thought of as the messengers of God. Angels are good spirits, unlike their counterparts the demons. They are usually portrayed as having a human form, being dressed in long, white clothes, surrounded by a bright light and with long, swanlike wings. They were portrayed thus by artists, often on Church command, to alert the faithful that angels are more than human. There are cases, however, where angels appeared as ordinary men and were mistaken as such (the story of Lot, for instance).

In the Old Testament angels play a prominent role as the messengers from God. Also in the Old Testament the leading demon, Satan , is introduced. However, it was not until the New Testament that Satan was portrayed as Lucifer, the first of the fallen angels to rebel against God. In the New Testament, angels are present at all the important events in the life of Jesus. Here, they became more than just messengers; they are portrayed as the agents of God in bringing judgement to the world.

Until the New Testament there were only two orders of angles; the seraphim and cherubim. The commonly used hierarchy of nine orders is that popularized by the Pseudo-Areopagite of Pseude-Dionysius (early 5th century) in his De Hierarchia Celesti, which arranges them in three triads: Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones (Ophanim) in the first circle; Dominions (Hashmallim), Virtues (Tarshishim), and Powers in the second circle; Principalities, Archangels and Angels in the third circle.

The seven holy angels are Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Chamuel, Jophiel, and Zadkiel . Michael and Gabriel are mentioned in the Bible, Raphael in the Apocrypha and all appear in Enoch (viii, 2). A list of fallen angels is given by Milton in Paradise Lost (Bk. I, 392).

Muslims say that angels were created from pure bright gems; the genii from fire, and man from clay.

Related information

Etymology
"Messenger."

Greek: angelos, messenger Source(s):

1. Brewer's Book of Myth and Legend.

[El Supremo]

16. You forgot the Angel Moroni.

He's on the top of the LDS Temple in Salt lake City.

[DeSwiss]

17. see, I always thought that was "Angel Macaroni..."

...but I believe I read somewhere, that Dante' gave him "Honorable Mention" in a revised version or something. He's like in a new fourth circle of angels, "The Esciusaums". As a group, they're sort of like our FEMA. They handle disasters, but the big ones... mmmm... "not very well." Actually, not any of them very well.....

I hear they're thinking about making Katherine Harris a Patron Saint. She hasn't disparaged them yet...

[MnFats]

13. no. people do not become angels. No new angels are being created.

heaven has all the angels it will ever have, unless a new Lucifer comes along and some have to be pitched into hell.
see the Kevin Smith film "Dogma" for a surprisingly informed discussion of same. (it's also riotously funny!)

what was lacking in the angels in heaven, that God was so lonely he had to create humans?

[DeSwiss]

18. I love that movie... n/t

:applause: :woohoo:

[Dorian Gray]

20. Nope....

when a human being dies, there is no theological foundation for the belief that he or she will become an angel. Angels are separate beings than humans, and humans do not convert when they die.

[hedgehog]

25. This is an amusing thread

I am probably one of the last people who remembers the Baltimore Catechism, and I can assure you that people do not turn into angels. We learned all about angels especially our own personal Guardian Angel who was supposed to protect us from ourselves and dangers around us. (I never went so far as to sit on one side of my chair at school so my Guardian Angel could sit down.) Back then it was obvious that Protestants didn't know much about Angels. (In the old days, if you weren't a Catholic Christian, you were a Protestant.)

I would guess that the notion of people turning into angels came about among sentimental American Protestants sometime in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. Of course, Hollywood has certainly spread this belief as well. It's a belief that a lot of Catholics share these days. It may also be based on the notion that those in heaven still watch over us and pray for us. Catholics have always held this belief but I think some other denominations may have tried to discourage it. By introducing the departed as angels, questions about intermediaries between us and God are neatly sidestepped.

I don't think we discuss angels at all now in Catholic religious education classes; I know it doesn't come up in the text book for third grade! Someone figured out that a lot of angel lore came straight from Babylon when the people of Israel were in exile there and was probably embarrassed that Catholics made such a big deal about angels, so they got left out. Truth to tell, you don't have to believe in angels to believe in Christ.

In the old days, we Catholics always had pictures and statues of Mary and the saints around the house, but the Protestants had to settle for tranquil landscapes, pictures of people praying, or Jesus knocking at the door. Somewhere along the line, either because they wanted to assimilate or because after Vatican II they were embarrassed by devotions to Mary and the saints, most American Catholics got rid of all the religious kitch and started decorating like everyone else. Recently though, it seems that Christians want to introduce some sense of the sacred into their homes and it seems that all Christians have settled on angels except for the ones who consider all images idolatry.


(By the way, I hope I haven't insulted anybody. I'm trying to convey some of the old attitudes pre Vatican II. We really did think back then that Catholics had the straight dope on everything to do with God and that Protestants were to be pitied. That's NOT where I'm at today!)

[Done]

26. Actually...

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

[Igel]

28. Sexless, in other words.

Which puts the Nephilim discussion on hold.