Faith vs Evolution ???

[Racenut20]

Since we are now supposed to believe that only good things should happen to the religious right while the rest of us suffer. All of these studies springing up about such topics.

Seems they should include one that measures Faith vs IQ.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. How about Faith vs murder?

Faith vs bankruptcy
Faith vs unwanted/teen pregnancy
Faith vs divorce
Faith vs higher education
Faith vs income
etc.

It is well known that the blue states have better stats in all these occurrences than the red states.

[DaCheat]

2. Saying this

Is horribly mean to those of us Democrats who happen to be Christians. We aren't all atheists, and for one, I choose to believe in God. I think its sad that we let the Religious "right" define what religion is in America.

[Sporadicus]

3. I Don't See the Original Post as a Slam Against Religion

only against the same blind adherence to religious beliefs that fly in the face of scientific evidence. The Church tried to keep a lid on scientific discoveries for hundreds of years with the Inquisition, but ultimately failed (although it took over 400 years for the Church to forgive the heliocentric heresy of Galileo).

It's time to make the distinction between true faith and willful ignorance. If that offends some tender sensibilities in the process, so be it!

[flakey_foont]

5. caught a few minutes

of Hannity & Son last night (sorry, no good basketball games on the tube) and that fat bastard Falwell (he does remind me of FB in the Austin Powers movies) was telling Jim Wallis how no real Xtian would have voted against the Chimp or against Raygun.....and of course the knuckle-dragging Hannity was completely agreeing with him......
after watching wankers like Falwell, I thank God that I am an atheist!

[laura888]

13. Really? That is unbelievable!

How can they equate social darwinism with christian, be-kind-to-the-poor christianity?

Just makes me want to beat my head against the wall.

[rzemanfl]

6. Well then, you Democrats "who happen to be Christians" need to

do something about the nutcases who have hijacked your religion, just like the Muslims need to do something about the same situation in theirs. Until you do, excuse me for considering both Christians and Muslims, right along with BushCo, as threats to my children and grandchildren's futures.

Please explain to me why the God you choose to believe in, in his infinite power and wisdom, blessed us with *? I'm puzzled by this.

[pberq]

7. Something is being done

A couple of points.

First, people are doing something about the hijacking of Christianity by the fundies. Jim Wallis is one of the leaders in this area. He recently published a book called, "God's Politics: Why the Right Gets it Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get it". He has been appearing on TV and speaking around the country.

The website for his organization is: http://www.sojo.net/

Second, it was not God who gave us Bush, but the American political system, broken as it is. Christianity teaches that we have been given free will to align ourselves with the forces of light or with those of darknes, just as we choose.

We need to work together as a coalition, and as Democrats we all share the same basic ideals of seeking the best for everyone in this country, regardless of race, sex, social position, or any other way the Repubs want to divide us.

[rzemanfl]

8. Good, and well said. I can agree with a lot of what you said

except that the American political system gave us Bush. A perversion of the American political system gave us Bush just as perversions of religion gave us Bin Laden and Falwell and all the rest. The American political system is bad enough to have given us LBJ and Nixon, it isn't so bad as to have given us Bush twice, or even once for that matter.

Unfortunately, we had a lot of smart people write books about how bad Bush was and look where we are.

All I know for sure is that no one to my knowledge has ever said that the God they don't believe in or don't know whether or not exists has told them to smite anybody. Nor do non-believers claim that they are doing he/she/its will to justify their actions. On the downside, our funerals really suck.

[pberq]

12. Yes, it is a preversion

of what the political system should be. With the good Doctor Dean leading the Democrats, there is now hope.

Regarding your other points, this is not the first time politicians have usurped religion to achieve their own dark agendas. The fault lies not with religion but with the moral depravity of people like Bush and the ones behind him pulling the strings like Rove.

And you are right, the Bible does not condone illegal wars of aggression and the many other crimes this administration has committed. In fact, isn't it amazing that he has been able to claim any moral high ground at all given his record (torture, concentration camps, thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, etc, etc.)?

[rzemanfl]

10. Duplicate, deleted.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Who is saying we are not?

Last week there was a posting about Sufis and how catering to this liberal branch of Islam would be a good thing to do, and about Muslim countries with Sufi majorities, and how they were relatively progressive compared to other Islamic countries. There were two replies to the post, one of them being mine. I hope that others read the article, even if they chose not to comment.

Sufis in this country have had an ongoing eumenical dialog that goes back for nearly a century. My Pir (head of my Sufi order) has had interfaith conferences with Christians, Jews, and Muslims about bringing about peace and getting out a tolerent, non-violent message. Have you heard of these conferences? Probably not, because the media doesn't choose to talk about them. But that doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

[DaCheat]

19. You don't get it

Saying that Christianity and Islam are dangerous for your children is a bit absurd. People can take anything too seriously, but that doesn't mean that they are all nutcases. I think that God has given us the power of free will, and I made that decision through a judgement of the bible. Clearly other people, through free will, have made the choice that God ordains people to be leaders. In the end, we chose Bush, God didn't. At least, my God didn't. My God doesn't send people down to do certain things, and it is up to them do determine their destiny. God doesn't give us war, ignorance does. God doesn't give us plauges, bacteria do. You shouldn't generalize, because thats how bad things happen (the crusades, the Holocuast, racial discrimination) just because someone thinks that every part of a community, race, or religion are all bad. It isn't our job to take out the people who have hijacked Christianity, its people's job to be educated above them, and to know the difference between moderates and extremists. I am sorry that you can't be that educated.

[lapislzi]

15. Interesting use of the word "choose"

I didn't "choose" to be an atheist. To choose suggests alternatives. I see none. You believe, or you don't. Or you're taking Pascal's wager, which is a canard.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Not all faiths oppose evolution

in fact, many progressive religious sects see evolution as a part of the Whole that makes up God.

[MaineYooper]

9. There are good, faithful Christians who see no need for conflict

In particular, I know two Methodist ministers who see a place and a role for faith and evolution. Of course they're also both very good bible scholars who understand that it was never meant to be a scientific textbook.

[ljm2002]

11. I find the whole Science vs. Religion thing...

...to be weird. There is no reason an informed and scientifically literate person cannot also be a person of faith. Historically, that has often been the case. Einstein for example professed a belief in God. He famously said "God does not play dice with the universe" to argue against emerging statistical theories in quantum mechanics. (To which Niels Bohr replied, "Stop telling God what to do!" -- heh)

To have faith is also to acknowledge one's own smallness and finiteness in the larger scheme of things, and to acknowledge that one's own individual knowledge has limits. There really is a vast Unknown out there, and the farther scientists get in their investigations, the more obvious it becomes that we have but scratched the surface.

Which, when you think about it, is pretty awesome. Enough to make you think, all, Glory of God and shit.

[immoderate]

16. Einstein devoted his life to finding an equation that would...

explain everything in the universe. He was an atheist. He did not believe in god any more than he believed that god played dice. God was a ephemism that Einstein used to stand for an orderly and understandable universe.

I use the word god, most often during sex, but that doesn't make me a believer.

--IMM

[Az]

14. Religion is not so easily dismissed

It has been around for millenia. It may have arisen at the very moment our species learned to see itself as unique. To expect that a matter of intelligence is at the base of it is supposing too much. Great minds have been believers. Great minds of been nonbelievers.

Belief derives from something other than simple raw intelligence. It is far more complex than just sitting down and figuring the universe out.

[Stunster]

18. You can say that again

Check out this guy's biography.

[leanin_green]

20. How about Faith (in) Evolution.