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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 06:37 AM Original message |
The Myth of the Historical Jesus |
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ClintonTyree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:32 AM Response to Original message |
1. There's some good reading there. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:39 AM Response to Original message |
2. Oh boy, another one that is imposable to respond too |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 08:45 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. I am the kind of person |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 09:41 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. Well I say just hold on a miniut...what are we talking about? |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 10:25 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. I disagree |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 10:30 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. Great point. |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 10:50 AM Response to Reply #11 |
12. Hell, even non-Christians have it. (n/t) |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:09 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. There are non-Christians who believe... |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:14 AM Response to Reply #14 |
16. That's not what I meant. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:18 AM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Oh, when I said "it" I meant... |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:25 AM Response to Reply #17 |
18. OK... can't think of any non-Christians who have "that." |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:58 AM Response to Reply #17 |
21. BTW I did not say that Jesus had established anything |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:15 PM Response to Reply #21 |
28. But what are "his teachings"? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:32 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. Well that is easy...Mathew Mark Luke and John |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 01:15 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Um, was there an answer in there? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 06:27 PM Response to Reply #28 |
44. Well the answers are largely contained in the Sermon on |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 06:50 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. To turn the other cheek is crap! |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:14 AM Response to Reply #45 |
54. Would you jump at the throat of someone that insulted you? |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:26 AM Response to Reply #54 |
64. No I wouldn't |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:52 AM Response to Reply #64 |
73. I think you speak correctly |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:15 PM Response to Reply #54 |
118. whah?? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:02 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. Give me $1000. |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:07 PM Response to Reply #46 |
117. I want a grand too. |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:20 PM Response to Reply #46 |
119. Your doing it wrong |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:26 PM Response to Reply #119 |
120. So... |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:29 PM Response to Reply #120 |
122. Pretty much |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:35 PM Response to Reply #122 |
125. Well... |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:03 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. Not answers. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:01 AM Response to Reply #47 |
53. You are right i do not know...is it a sin to you? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 08:30 AM Response to Reply #53 |
59. But you said Jesus' teachings could bring about a peaceful, yada, society. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:15 AM Response to Reply #59 |
61. I know well what the teachings are |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:17 AM Response to Reply #61 |
62. OK, so don't judge people who steal? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:26 AM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Why do you think that we have a judicial system? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:30 AM Response to Reply #65 |
66. Did Jesus propose a judicial system? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:44 AM Response to Reply #66 |
71. Jesus purposed no form of government |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:46 AM Response to Reply #71 |
72. So you agree, Jesus' teachings aren't enough. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:56 AM Response to Reply #72 |
74. And that surprises you? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 10:10 AM Response to Reply #74 |
76. No, it doesn't surprise me. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:39 PM Response to Reply #76 |
84. Not proved wrong, just not yet understood |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:28 PM Response to Reply #84 |
98. So, no one can agree on the teachings, |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 03:02 PM Response to Reply #98 |
105. how did you get that from what I said? |
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cosmik debris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 10:12 AM Response to Reply #65 |
77. So Judges and jurors are exempt? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:42 PM Response to Reply #77 |
85. It is the duties of citizenship |
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cosmik debris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 01:20 PM Response to Reply #85 |
91. An exemption from the admonition not to judge. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:49 PM Response to Reply #91 |
101. That is a rigid attitude that Jesus tried to stop |
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cosmik debris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 03:02 PM Response to Reply #91 |
104. So this is just a suggestion? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 03:12 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. you can make it a paradox if you want to |
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cosmik debris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 03:29 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. You are what I call a Biblical Ventriloquist |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 06:33 PM Response to Reply #109 |
130. Well I have sure moved my fingers a lot |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:01 PM Response to Reply #14 |
23. More than a few |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:03 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. It's "prophet." |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:12 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. My bad |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:16 PM Response to Reply #27 |
29. I've read Black Elk Speaks. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:44 AM Response to Reply #9 |
19. Let me clear this up |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:26 PM Response to Reply #19 |
31. Here's one that needs some defending. |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 02:14 PM Response to Reply #31 |
37. Exactly! |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 06:04 PM Response to Reply #31 |
43. Words do not carry the same weight as they do now |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:06 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. Oh, you're right. *Much* less threatening. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:24 AM Response to Reply #48 |
55. Jesus spoke clearly on that |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 08:28 AM Response to Reply #55 |
58. Yep, clearly reinforced the idea. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:03 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. The same what? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:19 AM Response to Reply #60 |
63. The same idea that you WILL be judged. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:35 AM Response to Reply #63 |
67. I don't reject the parts you say |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:40 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. Mere semantics. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 10:08 AM Response to Reply #69 |
75. Well what is the book of Exodus if not a (historical) story? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 10:16 AM Response to Reply #75 |
78. Sorry, but Exodus is not historical. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:23 PM Response to Reply #78 |
80. That is why I wrote like this (historical) |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:28 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. I object? It's the facts that object. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:54 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. You do understand that a parable is not an exact description |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:30 PM Response to Reply #87 |
99. I think we're done. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:51 PM Response to Reply #99 |
102. You say n/t |
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pretzel4gore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 08:37 PM Response to Reply #31 |
50. Jesus didn't condemn you to hell.... |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:28 AM Response to Reply #50 |
56. Thanks for the help n/t |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 09:17 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Just one detail. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 09:50 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Well see here is the problem I have with that |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 10:27 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. Well, I can't say that three-headed purple aliens from Pluto didn't write it, either. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:00 AM Response to Reply #10 |
13. There isn't a character 'Mark' in the gospels |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:10 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. D'oh! Was writing Mark but thinking Matthew. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 11:52 AM Response to Reply #10 |
20. But they don't really know do they? |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:00 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. There's something funny about this post. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:07 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. Oh that is just my secret agenda to mind fuck the atheists. |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:08 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. You're not making a speck of sense. |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:21 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. Sorry ...just trying to use sarcasm |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 12:58 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. I think many (self-described) Christians today follow the teachings... |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:41 AM Response to Reply #33 |
57. " There is nothing new under the Sun" |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:38 AM Response to Reply #57 |
68. Everything of a supernatural nature... |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:28 PM Response to Reply #68 |
82. I would agree |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:32 PM Response to Reply #57 |
123. Tibet? |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 06:28 PM Response to Reply #123 |
129. Here ya go |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 06:34 PM Response to Reply #123 |
131. THere are a lot of theories about this |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 01:20 PM Response to Reply #2 |
36. I began to question the historicity of Jesus |
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pretzel4gore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:32 PM Response to Reply #36 |
132. word's are leaky containers.... |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:45 PM Response to Reply #132 |
134. That doesn't mean that Jesus was a historical figure. (n/t) |
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CJCRANE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:47 AM Response to Original message |
3. Isn't it more to the point |
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nealmhughes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
8. Why is this even being discussed here? Right wing infiltartion of Jewish and Xian |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 01:13 PM Response to Reply #8 |
34. I thought the author of John was not a contemporary of the other Gospel writers. |
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nealmhughes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 03:52 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. No, John was contemp. It was Luke who never met Jesus. |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 04:25 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. How do you know Paul existed? n/t |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 11:15 AM Response to Reply #38 |
79. Why should we believe Polycarp? |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 06:01 PM Response to Reply #8 |
42. Is there a rule in this forum against posting the OP? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 04:13 PM Response to Original message |
39. And you know what's kind of funny? |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 04:27 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. "God works in mysterious ways".... |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 07:47 PM Response to Reply #39 |
49. Because he was illiterate? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 09:33 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. How about 1st century Judean fishermen... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-04-06 10:20 PM Response to Original message |
52. Yawn. In 1906, Albert Schweitzer, during his period as a theologian, wrote .. |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:43 AM Response to Reply #52 |
70. Or in other words--He did not exist historically. n/t |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:26 PM Response to Reply #70 |
81. It is better to say we do not know if he existed historically |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 01:10 PM Response to Reply #81 |
89. I used to say that until I studied it... |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 01:18 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. Agreed to an extent |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:46 PM Response to Reply #90 |
126. I would say its fair... |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:50 PM Response to Reply #70 |
86. Or in other words, something happened. |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 12:58 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. Utility is the most valuable part of any story |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 01:46 PM Response to Reply #88 |
94. So you think you can change the mind of a Creationist? |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:22 PM Response to Reply #94 |
97. I think it depends on the individual... |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 04:39 PM Response to Reply #94 |
113. Know your audience |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 01:23 PM Response to Reply #86 |
92. That is why we have textual criticism and other disciplines... |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 01:30 PM Response to Reply #92 |
93. This is in part why Jesus rises to a special standard |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:08 PM Response to Reply #93 |
95. Homer is a good example of attributing compilations... |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 03:12 PM Response to Reply #95 |
107. The Jesus question is different, however, in being about an alleged man-God |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:28 PM Response to Reply #107 |
121. The myth of the United States is deadly too. |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:33 PM Response to Reply #121 |
124. Agree and disagree |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:09 PM Response to Reply #92 |
96. Hunter is well documented by his postings on DU... |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:38 PM Response to Reply #96 |
100. By virtue of using a nickname, no. n/t |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:53 PM Response to Reply #100 |
127. Many people here know exactly who I am. |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 04:22 PM Response to Reply #96 |
111. I think you are dismissing the things we do know of the arts |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 02:55 PM Response to Reply #86 |
103. Is your point that what really happened in history matters less |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 03:15 PM Response to Reply #103 |
108. To an extent, I'd agree with that. (n/t) |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 04:11 PM Response to Reply #108 |
110. I disagree with that. |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 04:36 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. Why does history matter? |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 04:49 PM Response to Reply #112 |
114. Oh, well, if Lisa Simpson feels that way... |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 04:54 PM Response to Reply #114 |
115. I'm a bit of a free speech absolutist |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:02 PM Response to Reply #112 |
116. The utility if belief carries some problems with it |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 05:59 PM Response to Reply #112 |
128. Um, |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 09:05 PM Response to Reply #128 |
136. You are only going to learn what the author wanted you to??? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:39 PM Response to Reply #70 |
133. The Jesus of traditional church dogma did not -- but Someone certainly |
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Meshuga (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 07:55 PM Response to Reply #133 |
135. Ancient Dust |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-05-06 10:52 PM Response to Reply #135 |
137. "... although historical knowledge can no doubt introduce greater clearness into an existing ... |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Oct 17th 2024, 11:27 PM Response to Original message |
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