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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:51 PM
Original message
Questions About Gambling on the Superbowl in Vegas
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 05:53 PM by Yavin4
Okay, right after the Saints won, Vegas put out a 4.5 points spread favoring the Colts.

Now, what if, at that moment when the spread was announced, I, and some associates, placed a total wager of $100,000 on the game, and we did it in $100 increments. We would then have 1,000 betting slips lokcing in the spread at Colts -4.5.
Flash forward to Friday, and let's say that the spread moved to Colts -8.5.

Could I sell my 1,000 betting slips, which has the spread at Colts -4.5, on the open market?

Let's say that each slip cost me $100 for the wager plus a fee of $5.00 to the house all for a total of $105.

Could I sell each Colts -4.5 slip for something like $135 and make a profit of $30,000?

Is it legal to do this? And, if I lose all of my money, can I get a bailout from the Fed?
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. You need to send a Bat Signal to Awsi Dooger
He's our resident Vegas gambling expert.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. LOL; I was typing as you posted that
Seems like I'm always responding to these type of inquiries at Super Bowl time.

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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. That would be a middler's paradise
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 07:19 PM by Awsi Dooger
Find another $100,000 and take the +8.5. That would be a 20/1 potential bonanza if the game fell between Colts by 5 and Colts by 8. You would win $200,000, or lose $10,000 if the result was anything besides Colts by 5-8.

The last part separates gamblers from petrified wimps. You have to risk the loss to enable the chance for greatest profit.

It's actually $110,000 to win $100,000. Your total outlay would be $220,000. In the Super Bowl you might find some joints willing to deal 5 cent juice and not 10 cents, but it's rare and normally reserved for the second week, once the line is settled.

A 4 point move would be unprecedented in the Super Bowl. Anything above 1 is almost unheard of. The biggest sportsbook bloodbath was a 1 point move. The Steelers went from -3.5 to -4.5 in 1978. When the game fell 4, 35-31, only an idiot lost the wager.

You could try to sell the tickets. I can't say that I've seen that in high volume. It's not uncommon in Las Vegas for a guy to shop his ticket on a future bet if he's stuck for cash. Inevitably that turns into advantage buyer, no seller.

Another option would be shopping the pointspread props. In fact, that sounds like the likely course, assuming you didn't want to take the $10,000 risk. Virtually every sportsbook puts up adjusted lines in either direction. For example, you can give points with the Saints and take a price. Or you can give 10 points or more with the Colts and take a price. Every number has a corresponding rate, based on relationship to the original spread. You could look for a joint using Colts -4.5 (or similar), and take the Saints end of that prop. It might look something like this, if the line had bumped to -8.5:

* Saints +4.5 +145
* Colts -4.5 -165

That's a rough estimate, but close enough. It means you could play $100,000 on the Saints to win $145,000. That would produce a $35,000 profit if the Saints covered, winning $145,000 while losing your original $110,000. You would break even if the Colts covered. But let's be realistic. You're not a gambler. You want to chuckle a profit based on clever foresight. The solution would be to wager less than $100,000 on the Saints, something in the $86,000 range, which would equate to equal profit of about $14,000 regardless of which side covers. I'd figure it out to exactly 50/50 if this were actually happening.

Regarding the tax aspect, the gaming rules changed about 9 years ago. Prior to that anything done in chips or betting tickets was fine, no paperwork. You were only IRS reported if you transacted more than $10,000 cash in a 24 hour period in a single casino. But that changed dramatically when the books were being hammered by organized groups of middlers and value players. The take had gone down more than 1.5%, which is disastrous considering the allotted space for a sportsbook. Consequently the rule was altered to IRS report anyone who went above $10,000 in any form, buying or cashing.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thank god I don't gamble.
I took two years of calculus in college, and what you said makes no sense whatsoever to me!

:hi:

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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Bet big and win
That's all you need to know. :)
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I was probably a bit low with that -165, +145 estimate on the pointspread prop
Your advantage would be more than $14,000 either way because the Saints likely would be higher than +145 on a pointspread prop at +4.5, if the line had moved upward 4 points to -8.5.

I checked a major offshore site and these are the pointspread props they are using for the Super Bowl. This thread basically is asking how much advantage would someone have if the line moved significantly and they had guessed correctly. These numbers allow some perspective. They are money lines attached to varying pointspreads. Minus if the favorite, plus the underdog. The current line is -5.5. That would be equal odds on both sides, -110 or bet 110 to win 100. At these adjusted lines, you'll note how the money line shifts. Dropping the Colts down 2 points, to -3.5, would cost the bettor 30 cents, giving -140 instead of -110. If a Colts bettor were extremely conservative and scared, he could take Indy +10.5 points but forced to give 10/1 odds, expressed here as -1000 or 1000 to win 100. But a Colts bettor could also give -21.5 points and take +600, or 6 dollars for every 1 he wagered. An optimistic Saints bettor could take the other side of that Colts +10.5 prop and give -10.5 with New Orleans, taking 7/1.

And so forth...

***

New Orleans Saints -10.5 +700
Indianapolis Colts +10.5 -1000

New Orleans Saints -7.5 +500
Indianapolis Colts +7.5 -650

New Orleans Saints -3.5 +280
Indianapolis Colts +3.5 -340

New Orleans Saints +3.5 +120
Indianapolis Colts -3½ -140

New Orleans Saints +10.5 -220
Indianapolis Colts -10½ +180

New Orleans Saints +14.5 -340
Indianapolis Colts -14½ +280

New Orleans Saints +17.5 -550
Indianapolis Colts -17½ +425

New Orleans Saints +21.5 -800
Indianapolis Colts -21½ +600
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. You Don't Work on Wall Street, Do You?
Please say that you don't work on Wall Street. Please.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Shit---I wish he did
he knows what he's doing.
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