Saints Fans - Best in the NFL!

[BOSSHOG]

An interesting statistic lends weight to that argument. Per a story in the Times Picayune 12 June addition, the Saints are number one in fan attendance per victory from 1967 through 2004, despite being 30th out of 31 in winning percentage during that period.

1 - SAINT 76,088 avg attendance per victory
2 - BROWNS 75,721
10 - EAGLES 64,810
22 - PATS 53,742
31 - STEELERS 46,307 (deadlast)

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-3/111855938390570.xml

This was in response to recent comments by Saints owner Tom Benson stating that New Orleans just might not be a good NFL town as he and the state continue to battle over a possible new stadium.

[dhinojosa]

1. I just skimmed the article and I didn't see the actual list....

where did you get it?

[BOSSHOG]

2. A list was printed in the paper on Sunday

Any team or teams you are interested in?

[dhinojosa]

3. Cowboys, NY Giants, San Fran, and Wash. :)

thx

[BOSSHOG]

4. Stats from 1967 through 2004

Average attendance per victory (31 teams listed)

Giants, 4th, (72,967) The first 3, Sainds, Browns, Lions
Redskins, 24th (51,107)
Cowboys, 25th (50,691)
Niners, 26th (50,668)
Last in avg attendnance - Tampa Bay

Winning Percentage (67-04)

Giants, 19th (.475)
Redskins, 9th (.556)
Cowboys, 3rd (.603) The first two Oakland and Miami
Niners, 5th, (.579)


Regular Season attendance (67-04)

Giants, 1st (20,103,144)
Skins, 15th (16,486,704)
Boys, 8th (17,724,864)
Niners, 14th (16,583,126

[dr.zoidberg]

6. re:stats

You're absolutely right. We Saints fans have had to put up with horrendous teams for years. Hell, we'd probably try to get Haslett canonized as a saint if he can get us to the Super Bowl.

[dhinojosa]

10. Wow: Skins, Boys, and Niners at the bottom?

Amazing

[Brotherjohn]

5. Sorry, BOSSHOG. As a fellow Saints fan, this list is utter nonsense.

"The Saints lead the NFL with an average of 76,088 fans per win, derived by dividing the team's all-time attendance of 17,880,875 by its 235 total wins."

Is the Times Picayune simply so desperate to have forsaken all reason and knowledge of statistics (hell, simple math) in an attempt to keep the team in N.O.?

The number is driven so high simply because of the LOW number of Saints wins (relative to other teams). If a team had only ONE win in a 20-year history, and went 0-16 every other year, if even only 10,000 people attended every game, they would blow everybody else away in this statistic.

8 home games * 10,000 people * 20 years / 1 total win
= 1 million 600 thousand people per game.
(assuming only home attendance is counted)

I guess the argument there might be "Hey, they still pulled 10,000 a game, even thought they only won a single game, EVER! What loyal fans!"

But no matter how bad a team is, a certain number of people will always show up. It's something to do.

"76000 a game" sounds good, but it really means nothing as far as attendance. If a team isn't pulling enough fans, it's going to hurt. Even if they're pulling more fans than other losing teams.

[BOSSHOG]

7. Please consider

The point of the T-P is to show Benson the loyalty of Saints fans. The argument I believe is that if the Saints won more games, statisticallly it could be expected that more fans would show up for games. In other words, even though the Saints won-loss record is miserable, fans keep coming back.

To counter your argument, I doubt Saints attendance would decrease if the winning percentage went up.

Go Saints!

[Brotherjohn]

8. I just lost my response post. I see the point about loyalty (see edited...

...post above).

I just don't think it's a very persuasive argument. "We pull more fans than other losing teams" just doesn't carry a lot of weight with an owner trying to make more money.

That being said, I don't know why he thinks he'd start winning more anywhere else. And if you're going to lose, might as well lose where at least SOME fans show up (even if it IS just for the 'Big Ass Beers').

No, I don't think their attendance would decrease with more wins. It would of course increase. But the real question is (and relevant to this statistic), would their attendance keep increasing at the same rate per victory? Not likely. Eventually, you reach a point of diminishing returns.

Winning teams don't rate so low on that statistic because they don't pull enough fans... they often sell out nearly every game. The come in so low because they have so many wins. You can only fit so many people in a stadium. So in a way, the statistic is only relevant to teams that don't win a lot, and to teams that don't always sell out their games.

Again, saying " Compared to other losers, we're not THAT bad!" is not very persuasive. But also again, I don't know what makes Benson think anything would be different anywhere else.

[BOSSHOG]

9. We all know what the Saints problem is

The Superdome is on top of a Voodoo grave yard. Nothing like sitting at the Tropical Isle on Bourbon and watch fans of visiting losing teams stroll down the quarter after a game.

I guess I'm just selfish when it comes to the Saints but I don't think Benson would do any better if the team moved to LA or San Antonio (or Hancock County Mississippi). The old fart should sell the team to a conglomeration of New Orleans businessmen and retire to enjoy the rest of his life.

[DaveinMD]

11. There is a 30 year waiting list for Giants tickets

that waiting list didn't get smaller in the 70s when the team was awful. It didn't get smaller the last two years when they won a total of 11 games. There are no fans more loyal than Giants fans.