Sebastian Janakowski just kicked a 63 yard FG in Denver...

[givemebackmycountry]

Becomes only the third in the NFL to do that.
Who are the other two?

Ohhh, Ohhh, I know, I know!

I know too by the way, just look at my avatar...

[bigwillq]

1. Great kick.

:bounce:

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Things That Make You Go, Hmmmm

Three times in NFL history. Two of them in Denver. One of them below sea level. Which one seems more impressive?
GAC

[Upton]

4. Tom Dempsey had his own advantage..

I don't know that his special boot would even be allowed today..

[trumad]

5. yeah...

always an advantage to have half a foot.

Douche.

[Upton]

6. The NFL has since outlawed boots such as the one Dempsey wore..

obviously someone other than myself thought it gave him an advantage...

[trumad]

7. Then some others are douchebags as well.

Try some research next time.

Dempsey's Proof by Equation

For the average male, the leg is about 20% of total body mass. Taking this into account, Elam’s leg weight is about 38 pounds. Dempsey is built like a linebacker. At 6 feet 2 inches and 255 pounds, his right leg weighs approximately 50 pounds.

With so many variables, it became evident that to prove the advantage or disadvantages Dempsey may have had with his shoe, these variables had to be removed as much as possible. A mechanical kicking machine was created to prove or disprove the theory.

With four sensors attached to the end of the machine, Dempsey’s shoe was attached to the machine and a football was kicked. After Dempsey’s shoe was tested against Elam’s, the results showed that Tom Dempsey’s shoe did not give an advantage at all. In fact, it was more of a disadvantage in having a larger area between the ball and shoe, making it easier for error.

The soccer-style kick and shoe of Elam had an area on the edge of his footwear showing at around 8.4 inches. The custom made shoe of Dempsey had an area at the tip of about four square inches. With both shoes have the virtually identical force behind them, it proves that Dempsey made those 63-yard field goals perfectly, and with no help from his shoe. If anything, his shoe hindered his kicking style.

If all things were to be considered, one has to remember the air density in Denver is 20% less than that of New Orleans, so in all actuality, Dempsey’s field goal attempts would have traveled close to seventy yards.
http://www.suite101.com/content/did-tom-dempseys-custom-shoe-assist-with-kicking-distance-a323212

[Upton]

9. Interesting...

but by my reading the kicking machine test with Dempsey's shoe seems to address accuracy more than distance.

the results showed that Tom Dempsey’s shoe did not give an advantage at all. In fact, it was more of a disadvantage in having a larger area between the ball and shoe, making it easier for error.

I'm not trying to downplay the record kicks of Dempsey, Elam or Janikowski, but it is notable that all three 63 yard kicks were achieved under other than normal conditions. I think that's more than just coincidence..

[ProfessorGAC]

14. No They Haven't

They have outlawed advantage providing shoes where it fits within the law. The NFL still has to follow ADA.

You're being ridiculous.
GAC

[Upton]

15. Yes they have....it's known as the Tom Dempsey rule

any shoe that is worn by a player with an artificial limb on his kicking leg must have a kicking surface that conforms to that of a normal kicking shoe.

http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2008/05/nfl-rules-named-after-players/

Controversy about Tom Dempsey's unorthodox shoe, which pro football legend Sid Gillman helped design, eventually led the NFL to standardize footwear policy for kickers in 1977. Rule 5, Section 4, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book reads in part: "Kicking shoes must not be modified (including using a shoelace wrapped around toe and/or bottom of the shoe), and any shoe that is worn by a player with an artificial limb on his kicking leg must have a kicking surface that conforms to that of a normal kicking shoe."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=wickersham_seth&id=5648473

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Unenforceable

No matter what they would like to do, they still have to follow the law.
GAC

[fishwax]

29. It wouldn't keep Dempsey (or anybody else) from kicking

they would just have to wear a shoe that conforms to the shape of a normal kicking shoe.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Read The Abstract Of The ADA Law

That's not a reasonable accommodation. That's no accommodation at all.

Sorry, but you're wrong on this one.

If someone took it to court over ADA, they'd win. The law is VERY clear and quite explicit.
GAC

[fishwax]

34. perhaps, but I'm not convinced because

Employers are required to make reasonable accommodations for people with known physical/mental limitations, but I'm not sure it's a limitation with respect to wearing a standard-shaped shoe (esp. with prosthetics, inserts, etc.). Maybe it does in the context of football, but I don't know. I don't think it would be so clear-cut. It's a different issue from something like the Casey Martin case because Martin had a much stronger need for the accommodation. On the other hand, the NFL would have even less of a case that the accommodation would fundamentally change the game than did the PGA, and the court didn't the PGA's argument there. (That case is different, too, since it fell under Title III, but it seems like the closest to compare; I know there have been a few players over the years who have sued the NFL and other leagues as alcoholics under ADA, but that involved suspensions/reinstatements rather than playing conditions.) At any rate, I doubt it will ever be an issue, since nobody kicks with that straight-forward style anymore.

All that said, though, I agree with you that it didn't provide him any advantage, and any attempt to undermine his record is silly.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. We Agree and Disagree

The PGA thing is not an appropriate example. Riding DOES change the game. Wearing a shoe that fits a deformed fit that can be proven to provide no advnatage doesn't.

So, failing to accommodate the dysfunction is not reasonable.

But, we agree in principle.
GAC

[ProfessorGAC]

13. It Would

A guy who overcame a major birth defect had an advantage. Really? Way to denigrate a guy who overcame a disability. Nice. I hope you just didn't think ahead.

But, ADA applies to the NFL too. It's a reasonable accommodation for a guy with a legal handicap.

And, since nobody kicks straight on anymore, nobody would need that boot.

Shame on you and your insensitivity.
GAC

[Upton]

16. Yep...that must be it Professor..

I'm just insensitive that's all....when political correctness clashes with the truth, I'll take the truth every time..

[trumad]

17. Problem is---as proven above

it's not the truth.

Just doubling down on your doucheness.

[Upton]

19. Kicking machine test proved little or nothing

as it relates to distance. As I stated in #7, it looks to me like it addresses accuracy more than anything else. And the "Tom Dempsey rule" wouldn't have been enacted if there wasn't controversy surrounding his use of the special shoe..

Just from my own POV, I can see where having what was essentially the head of a mallet of the end of his leg would be a hindrance to accuracy but an advantage when it comes to kicking for distance...

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Controversy, Huh?

I'm old enough to remember Tom Dempsey. There was no controversy. Just complaining by a bunch of insensitive louts who didn't want to provide an accommodation to a guy born with that bad foot.

Using the word controversy doesn't make it a controversy.
GAC

[Upton]

22. Controversy:

A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/controversy

Now, you can refer to one particular side as "a bunch of insensitive louts" all you like, but the disagreement over Dempsey's special shoe still meets the definition of the word..

[trumad]

23. You started this by saying Dempsey had an advantage...

It's clearly been proven that he did not.... as a matter of fact, he was at a disadvantage.

Prove that he had an advantage---or keep up the doucheness.

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Only To You

This was not a public dispute. Like i said, i was a football fan when Dempsey was playing, and his shoe was not a matter of public debate.

So, your definition only works to you.
GAC

[JonLP24]

8. Someone actually kicked further than a 63-yarder

in Denver but was pre-season game. Might be Elam but I'm pretty sure it was someone else.

[fishwax]

31. It was Ola Kimrin -- and he still didn't make the team :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ola_Kimrin

[fishwax]

30. Dempsey's and Elam's seem equally impressive -- Janakowski's not so much

Sincerely,
A Broncos Fan


:rofl:

[Kingofalldems]

3. Steve Dempsey was one---oops Tom Dempsey

[Doctor_J]

10. Tom Demsey and I think Jason Elam

there should be an asterisk for kicking one at Mile High.

Edit: I figured Grossberger would be the next one. He was phenom coming out of FSU and his career in Raider Nation has been obscure but very good.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. 67% of those kicks occurred in Denver.

:think:

The other third happened in a dome.

:think:

[KamaAina]

12. Bzzzzzzzzt!

Dempsey's kick occurred in 1970, when the Saints still played outdoors at Tulane Stadium.

[trumad]

18. Yep...and check the field conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxTjgFYoU8

[ProfessorGAC]

25. What KamaAina Said

GAC

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Nice Scooby snack.

:applause:

[GusBob]

27. I listened to him play a local high school game

many moons ago on the radio
he lines up for a 47 yarder, nails it, flag on the play back up 5 yards
from 52, good another flag
from 57, good with plenty to spare, no flag this time

this was in high school his first or second year of playing american fb

[Awsi Dooger]

28. Jan Stenerud attempted a 113 yard FG at Montana State

They had a lousy punter and the rules in those days did not return the ball to the spot of the missed kick. Stenerud made it to the opponent's 30.

BTW, I remember Dempsey also. There was no controversy. He was a good guy and not a particularly accurate kicker. Detroit barely made any attempt to rush the kick and many players collapsed in disbelief when it was signaled good.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Tony Franklin kicked two 60+ field goals in one game at Texas A&M. 65 and 64 yards. n/t