Mayweather vs Ortiz

[H2O Man]

This should be an outstanding bout tonight. I expect Floyd to win. But I believe that Victor has a better chance against him, than anyone else in the divisions below middleweight.

One interesting thing is that Ortiz will actually enter the ring as a middleweight. Should it go well for Floyd, he may consider a bout with Martinez for his middleweight title -- unless Manny Pacquaio is ready to submit to serious pre-fight drug testing.

Your predictions?

[H2O Man]

1. The PPV card

is beginning. Surprised none of my DU sports friends are here!

[H2O Man]

2. Floyd by KO in 4.

Devastating.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. And cheap, even though it was legal.

Can't wait for the rematch. It'll be Mayweather's next fight, methinks, since he's so busy ducking Manny.

[trumad]

4. Cheap my ass.

you touch gloves, it's on.

The Ortiz head butt was cheap.

He will beat Manny to a pulp.

[H2O Man]

5. Right.

There are people who dislike to "Money Mayweather" image that Floyd sells, that they believe that is who he is. (A common thing for fans of professional wrestling.) This dislike of Floyd blinds them to the fact that the referee had already warned Victor for using his head; that the "billygoat" bit was a gross foul that caused injury, actually enough to justify a DQ under the rules; and that Floyd did nothing illegal.

Severe. Unforgiving. Justice is mine, sayeth the Champion.

[trumad]

6. Ortiz and his over the top apology

Got him in trouble. He was basically kissing up to the ref when Floyd jacked him up.

[H2O Man]

7. He had actually

attempted a Judas kiss a moment earlier. But Floyd was unforgiving.

Did you see the fight? It ranks up with the most explosive that I've ever watched.

[trumad]

8. yes I did

the only thing Oritz could do was bully Floyd with his size. I think Floyd would have knocked him out by the seventh anyways.

[H2O Man]

9. I agree.

Victor was feeling the right hands. In the 4th round, his legs buckled. His face was swelling.

Before the fight, my son said that after Floyd schooled Ortiz, he would resort to fouling.

[TroubleMan]

10. Legal or not - it was a cheap shot from Mayweather.

Yes Ortiz's headbutt was just as bad or worse. That doesn't mean Floyd should act like he's going to hug (then took a quick glance to see if he was looking), then cheap shot a guy with his hands down. Two wrongs don't make a right. Floyd was easily winning the fight. He didn't need to resort to that.

Also, the interview was more entertaining that the fight:



I usually can't stand Larry Merchant, but that was funny as hell.

[H2O Man]

11. Respectfully disagree.

It was a beautiful combination. It was not unfair, illegal in the sport, unwarrented, or anything of the sort.

The referee had called both fighters to the center of the ring, and called for the fight to continue. Ortez wanted to apologize for the 4th time. He was afraid of what was coming. And for good reason.

[TroubleMan]

12. I would understand if Mayweather waved off the hug, but

he first acted like he was going to hug, then took a quick glance at the ref to see if the ref was looking, and then hit Ortiz after pretending like he was going to hug. Basically it was a sucker punch and caught Ortiz when he thought the fight was still stopped (because the ref had not restarted the clock).

This gif has 3 iterations of the punches from different angles:



On the 3rd one you can see that Mayweather checked to see if the ref was looking. Again - 100% legal, but IMHO 100% dirty. He was easily winning. He didn't need to stoop that low.

[H2O Man]

13. Yes, he did.

I saw that last night, watching the initial replay. It happened too fast for even me to pick it up live!

I assume he looked at the ref to see positioning. No reason to consclude it had anything to do with whether Joe was watching the action. Cortez had already called the fight back on.

Three hugs was too many, anyhow. What valid reason for four? None.

This summer, three televised fights had fouls playing a determining role in the outcome. Though I'm long retired, I still feel strongly that there comes a time when you simply have to take matters into your own hands, and utterly destroy the guy who has tried to injure you by cheating. So, while I both like and respect Ortiz, I'm 100% happy with what Floyd did. It was simply perfect.

[H2O Man]

14. PS: Love that film!

Thanks for putting that up!

In the second part, you can see the viciousness on Floyd's face.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Harold Lederman said the ref DIDN'T call them to box.

"Normally the referee yells 'box', you know, in a situation like that... where he takes away a point... Joe didn't yell ANYTHING... it looked to me like Joe was looking toward the commission... and he never said a thing. Floyd jumped on him..." Lederman is a "celebrated boxing judge and analyst".

I was pulling for Mayweather from the opening bell, and was DISGUSTED with the head butt by Ortiz. Joe Cortez thought that penalizing Ortiz a point was sufficient. I'm okay with that.

I understand that adrenaline and anger drive most actions in situations like that, and I think Mayweather saw an opening and took it. I also think it's just a little bit cheap.

Mayweather is and has been one of my favorite fighters for a long time, but I'm disappointed he won't even entertain a question about fighting Manny P.

[H2O Man]

16. If Harold said that,

it simply provides another example of his being wrong. Sometimes, it's worth looking towards the most obvious evidence: the gentleman keeping time at ringside .... he stops the clock when the referee instructs him to, and starts it upon command .... and that is -- without any argument or debate -- exactly what happened. If anyone actually doubts this, they can check where the clock was when Joe C stopped the clock to deduct the point, and what time he reached "ten." By no amazing coincidence, I am -- as always, when it comes to boxing -- exactly right.


The statement about Manny suggests that you haven't been aware of events concerning Mayweather and Pac Man.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. I'm not doubting your supreme knowledge of boxing. I'm just sayin'...

If Joe Cortez had called them back to boxing, why wasn't he looking in their direction? How much time does a ref spend during a fight looking at OTHER things than the boxers while the clock is running? Lederman was a judge himself, and was at ringside. I got the quote from my DVR. Took me a few minutes, but those were Lederman's exact words within less than 30 seconds after the fight was called. Emmanuel Stewart so shocked he said he wasn't even going to comment at about the same time Lampley was screaming "it was legal. It was legal..." and trying to impress the viewing audience with his use of the word "dictum".

The clock stopped at 2:51 and the fight was stopped at 2:59. Educate me here... given that fighters cannot be saved by the bell; if the count goes past 3:00 does the official time always go down as 2:59? Because if it doesn't, then the fight clock didn't resume when you say it did.

[H2O Man]

19. The HBO clock

is not the same as the time-keeper's, although it is often very close. The official time when Cortez stopped the action to deduct a point was at 2:45 in the round; it took 3-4 seconds for Floyd to deck Victor; you'll see the timekeeper immediately counting at ringside, and Cortez picks up the count.

Harold is a wonderful man. He has been involved in the sport for decades. In fact, one can measure how well that his HBO unofficial scoring has been, over the recent decades. And I'm not saying that disrespectfully.

In this fight, you have to consider where he sits versus where the timekeeper sits, and where the commissioner sits. In the wild excitement in that ring on Saturday, Harold would be unlikely to have heard exactly what the person who is paid to be focusing all of his attention on the time (and Joe C's commands) hears.

Because it was so close to the end of the round, and things were so loud, the referee will indeed look towards the timekeeper to see if there is 10 seconds left in the round. He must be in a specific place to tell the fighters, and to get in between them at the bell. Also, as there appeared to be a lull in the action, he may have been looking towards the commissioner. Considering the circumstances, one can understand why he looked down.

I unstand Manny's initial response. But keep two things in mind. A referee can only penalize a fighter after a foul. Victor had commited several, and was acting like he was coming unhinged -- wanting four hugs, and the kiss, etc. He had just opened two cuts on Floyd, requiring stiches. Floyd might have done it differently. Maybe he would have KOed Victor in a few rounds; maybe won by DQ. But he took matters into his own hands.

Also, watch film of Floyd versus Gatti, Judah, and Mosley. The Judah fight shows how utterly out of control a fight can get with fouls. The other two document that Floyd has previously taken things into his own hands in these circumstances. That is his option. It was vicious, ugly, and brutal. Yet that is part of boxing, is it not?

[trumad]

21. Dead on and you're exactly right...

As I watched the fight it became evident to me that Victor knew he couldn't win by Boxing---so he started began to revert to dirty tactics like the head butt(s).

Floyd knew this and simply said fuck it..... I'm gonna take this cheating chump out the first chance I get. Victors buffoonery with the hugs and kisses gave Floyd the chance he was looking for.

Forget the timekeeper....When the Ref brought them together it was back on, Floyd took advantage and annihilated Victor.

[gort]

18. I don't like Mayweather

but as I watched it live on PPV I was screaming at Ortiz to get his gloves up. Mayweather did what it took to win. I knew what Mayweather was going to do so Ortiz has no one to blame but himself. I still feel cheated out of good fight, but a boxer's goal is to win no matter what. My selfish desire to see 12 rounds was foiled, but overall I was glad to see both men able to walk away and not get seriously hurt.

[H2O Man]

20. It was not the ending

that anyone put down money, expecting to see.

Looking at Floyd objectively -- like him or dislike him -- one senses that the controversial ending benefits him. For good or for bad, the figure he portrays -- "Money Mayweather," which is as distinct from him as The Joker from Heath Ledger -- insures more people will lay down more money when he fights Pacquaio next May.

[gort]

22. Yep and I will be one of many paying to see it happen.

:)