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Derby Preps and Lava Man takes aim at turf race in Dubai.

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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:14 PM
Original message
Derby Preps and Lava Man takes aim at turf race in Dubai.
From DRF:
Lava Man is going to Dubai.

The 6-year-old Lava Man, winner of nine straight in California but unplaced in four starts outside the state, will work Sunday at Hollywood Park and leave for Dubai two days later.

Owned by Steve and David Kenly's STD Racing Stable and Jason Wood, Lava Man will aim for the $5 million Dubai Duty Free, a turf race over about 1 1/8 miles on Dubai World Cup Night, March 31. Lava Man has won his last three on grass and his connections believe he is most effective on that surface. Lava Man has not raced on grass outside California.

"The horse is doing great, and the owners really want to go," trainer Doug O'Neill said over the weekend. "We're going to work him, and if he works awesome and comes out of it awesome, he'll board a plane on the 20th and go to Dubai."

http://www.drf.com/news/article/83183.html

Tampa Bay Derby this weekend on Padraig's Day. I don't know if Street Sense is entered but, I asume he will be and kenzee13's Cobalt Blue takes on Grapelli in the San Felipe.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Action Figure, Benns Cowboy named tops in Michigan for 2006
From USTrotting.com:
Michigan's leading 2006 state-bred race horses were honored by the Office of Racing Commissioner on March 10, 2007 when state Racing Commissioner Christine C. White made the announcement during the Michigan Horse Councils International Stallion Expo at the Michigan State University Agriculture Pavilion in East Lansing. Horses were recognized in the categories of Standardbred Trotter, Standardbred Pacer, Thoroughbred, Quarter Horse and Arabian Horse for outstanding racing performance at Michigan pari-mutuel tracks during the 2006 live racing season.

Action Figure was named the 2006 Michigan Standardbred Pacer of the Year. As a three-year old colt, Action Figure recorded eight wins, two shows and one place in twelve starts earning a little over $150,000. Tim Halstead of Concordi, MI and Larry Lyles, LRL Racing LLC of Grosse Ile, are Action Figures owners. His trainer is Marie St. Charles of Whitmore Lake; Bill and Patti Gira bred Action Figure whose sire is Ambro Cadet and his dam is Don't Toy With Me.

Benns Cowboy won the 2006 Michigan Standardbred Trotter of the Year award. As a two-year-old colt, he recorded eight wins, two places and two shows in twelve starts earning $131,840. Benns Cowboy is owned by Brad Kramer and Tim Hall of Lennon, MI. Mr. Kramer also trained and drove Benns Cowboy. Dave Bennett at Bennett Farm in Freemont, MI bred Benns Cowboy. His sire is Lockkeeper and his dam is Another Chip.

http://www.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=20337&z=1
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Should be a good weekend of racing
Here's Haskin's take: http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37976. (You could title it All-Pletcher, All the Time.)

If things go right, I'll get to see the Rebel: Teuflesberg, Curlin and Flying First Class in there. Should be wide open but Teuflesberg seems to be improving and has the experience. Flying First Class has the highest 3-year-old Beyer speed figure this year, but that was a sprint -- looks like Edgar Prado will ride him. There's also the WinStar Derby this weekend. Baffert is sending Law Breaker, a speedy Cali-based horse, out for that. I like Street Sense if he runs at Tampa Bay.

Hats off to Lava Man's connections for giving it a go if they head to Dubai. Perhaps the Woodford Reserve would be a more prudent race, but why not go for the gusto and the glory of Dubai? Perhaps the turf travel will be kinder than dirt travel.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Looks like the Tampa Bay Derby is just a workout for...
Street Sense. Just to get his timing back. I had a link to the story but, it doesn't want to load now. It was from the Lexington Herald-Leader. I'll try again later.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. News on Ouija Board and Film Maker
Apparently, they've become buddies at Lane's End in their new life as broodmares. Click on this update from Graham Motion's barn to see the news (scroll down for pictures of them): http://hgrahammotion.com/news.html.

Nice to see they didn't hold any grudges from their days when Film Maker chased Ouija 'round the track. :D
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Three Share Fastest Workout Times in Barretts Under Tack
From The Bloodhorse:
Two fillies and a colt tied for the fastest work at an eighth of a mile, each stopping the clock in :9 4/5 Monday at Fairplex Park during the first under tack show for the Barretts March select sale of 2-year-olds in training in Southern California. The colt is by Johannesburg out of Decadent Designer and is consigned by B.C.3. Thoroughbreds, agent. One of the fastest-working fillies is by Bernstein -- Cometuseibella, also consigned by B.C.3. Thoroughbreds, agent. The other, by Malibu Moon -- Tsu Lou, is consigned by Sequel Bloodstock , agent.

An Officer -- Rovie Waid turned in the fastest quarter-mile time of :20 4/5. He is consigned by B.C.3. Thoroughbreds who stopped the clock in 20 4/5.

The second, and final, training preview is scheduled for March 18. The auction will be held March 20 in the Hinds Pavilion at Fairplex, beginning at 2:00 p.m. (PDT).

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37978

Man, that is too fast for 2YO's. Then again, I'd like to have that Officer colt.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tampa Bay Derby up...
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 04:58 PM by two gun sid
watching Any Given Saturday's odds. Now at 1-2. Street Sense 7-5.

Didn't little Limehouse win this race a couple of years ago?
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Damn. Photo finish. I think Street Sense got it by a head bob.
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 05:20 PM by two gun sid
Times: 23.53 47.57 1:12.03 1:33.58 1:43.11

And it was Street Sense with Any Given Saturday 2nd, Delightful Kiss 3rd.

New track record. Helluva a battle in the stretch. Neither horse would give in.

Oh, and a MI-bred set the pace. All I Can Get by Slew City Slew.

If that race was just to get the champs timing back, I think he's got it.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Great race.

Street Sense was put to the task today.

Any Given Saturday ran great considering he was about three wide
coming out of the far turn and Street Sense did his rail skimming thing
again.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Great race but they must have flashed the wrong mile time
No way they sprinted the fourth quarter in 21.55 then crawled the final sixteenth in 9.53. It must have been 1:36.58 for the mile. That makes much more sense.

Street Sense looked so relaxed and smooth on the backstretch. I thought he got checked a bit entering the top of the stretch. But only briefly. Once he got through it looked like he would win by distance so you've got to give Any Given Saturday plenty of credit. I love that name for a horse.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Not their fault. I made a typo.....
can't believe I didn't notice it.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. It was their fault
The track flashed that 1:33 time during the race. If you go to YouTube and watch the replay that 1:33 is shown on the screen at the end of the race. I didn't notice the time was obviously wrong until the third time I watched the replay.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Cool. I was typing as the times came up on the feed...
I checked DRF later and they had 1:36 so I just assumed it was I who made a mistake. Still, you'd a thought I'd have noticed a 4th 1/4 that fast and a final 1/8 that slow.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Street Sense is the real deal
He's what, 80 percent fit and ready to roll? Such an exciting horse and a super rail runner. He's IT and Nafzger is a master.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. that was exciting. Bailey saying he hopes
it wasn't too hard on Street Sense - he mentioned the horse he rode in that kind of race a few years ago, Friends' Lake, never being the same, but didn't the horse he ran with also fade out after? Can't think of his name.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Baily really makes intelligent comments and seems
to be able to educate the public about racing in a way none
of the others can.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Out to Oaklawn for the Rebel Stakes in 29 minutes...
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 05:49 PM by two gun sid
Some nice horses in here. Maybe not top tier Derby horses but, should be a competitive race.

Lukas has one in named Flying First Class. Also Teufelsberg and Curlin. I kinda like the Holthus entry, Officer Rocket(GB).
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Curlin takes the Rebel
23.2/5 47.3/5 1:12.2/5 final 1:44.3/5

Won by about 5. Officer Rocket 2nd, Teufelsberg 3rd.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. That looked pretty impressive to me (n/t)
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. My Rebel Stakes Report....
What a fantastic day of racing at Oaklawn. Definitely the best day of racing I've seen in a long time. Got there just in time to view the third race (blast that Oaklawn parking situation and the oil change that caused me to run late, but it was quite nice to see a healthy crowd for the Rebel). And right off the bat the horses I didn't bet but was tempted to, of course, ran one-two. That's the story of my betting day and my wallet is all the thinner for it. As always, I was too ambitious and boxed exactas/trifectas -- must stop that nonsense next out.

I have to say I was pretty much ecstatic to see Edgar Prado up close and live -- very gracious man and he took time to sign a couple autographs from fans; I felt like a kid seeing someone like Babe Ruth watching him step out onto the track. That's how much reverence I have for him. The only time I didn't bet him he won, of course (on a nice horse named Flashstorm, 3-year-old). Also saw: a Someday farm horse (Smarty Jones owner), Tim Ritchey, Steve Asmussen watching the Tampa Bay simulcast inside like a $2 bettor a few races before the Rebel (he's very tall), Stewart Elliott get a win, several photo finishes making for some thrilling stretch drives, D. Wayne Lukas holding court and looking pretty good for all his time on the track ... just great to see them all.

And just about all the Rebel horses looked gorgeous, including the winner. But that Teuflesberg is one of the most gorgeous horses I've ever seen -- great presence and still pretty. I just about started whistling when he walked by. He ran a good race though I think he blew the start, but Curlin, I thought, was very very very impressive. Not sure what chance he'll have post-Rebel (pretty excellent for the Arkansas Derby if he goes there), but he went wide and won with some real authority moving away from a nice field. Got a chance to watch Asmussen and his assistant in the paddock with Curlin before the race, soothing him and keeping him calm while rubbing him between his eyes and on his face -- very interesting and he was a pretty calm horse. I'd say Curlin was a good buy. Not much of an Asmussen fan, frankly, but I like this horse a whole heck of a lot.

I should have pics up later this week -- took most them of the Rebel entries in the paddock, plus Prado shots.

Today sure reminded me why I love horses running.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Thanks for that great report!

You did good.

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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. San Felipe Stakes at Santa Anita
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 06:36 PM by two gun sid
kenzee13's Cobalt Blue looks to be the class in this race. Baffert's got one in named Air Commander, a Point Given colt. Pletcher trainee Grapelli in also. The 1 horse scratched. Down to a five horse field.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Cobalt Blue goes gate to wire....
got the lead and slowed it down. Got threatened at the top of the stretch by Air Commander but, held him off. Won by about 2 1/2.

Final time of 1:42.46. Air Commander 2nd. Level Red 3rd. Pletcher's horse? Last.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Kenzee liked that horse.
He ran great today.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. He looked good, didn't he?
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 07:49 PM by kenzee13
I know the pace was lukewarm, and they wern't "top-tier" but I enjoyed the race. You snowed in down there at Aqua, OB? I'm Upstate; we got socked too.

on edit - to be honest, I just liked his name :). Liked seeing him run, though...and didn't seem like he was pushed at the end, right?
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Actually, that was a top tier performance....
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 08:49 PM by two gun sid
he took control of the race and made the race go his way. Good final time. Keep an eye on this one.

He's a good lookin' sonuvagun.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Gotta be happy for Merv, too
After what happened to Stevie Wonderboy. Sounds like Cobalt Blue may go the Illinois Derby route.

Congrats on your horse, Kenzee!
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. We got ice.

Yesterday it took us an hour to get the car out and I thought
my husband was going to have a heart attack when it was all over.


Cobalt Blue is a great name - and he can really run.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. A good picture of Cobalt Blue winning the San Felipe.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
25. Great Hunter's Ownership Clouded by Legal Issues
From The Bloodhorse:
Great Hunter is a hot property on this year’s Triple Crown trail, but who has right to claim the grade I winner as legal property looms as a big question.

The colt is connected to a lawsuit that Fifth Third Bank has filed against his former owners, L. Eric Whetstone and Ilona Whetstone, over the alleged default of $3 million in loans secured in 2005 from the Kentucky financial institution.

The civil lawsuit, which was filed in Jessamine County (Ky.) Circuit Court Jan. 29, alleges several horses and other Thoroughbred interests owned by the Whetstones were part of the collateral for the loans.

The security agreement signed by the Whetstones also lists related equine collateral as “all progeny and offspring of said horses,” and “any income or proceeds attributable to said horses,” along with stallion shares and seasons, among other interests.

http://news.bloodhorse.com//viewstory.asp?id=38031
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
26. Sweetnorthernsaint scores easily
From DRF:
Displaying his superior class, Sweetnorthernsaint bounded to the front under Mario Pino and led every step to win the $63,000 Harrison E. Johnson for 3-year-olds and up by four lengths under a hand ride.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/83328.html

Glad to see the old boy back in the winner's circle. Nice horse and a gelding too, so we may get to cheer him on for a few years.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. Sunland Park for the Win/Star Derby...
the Baffert entry of Law Breaker has been scratched. Leaves 7 horses in with the best of the bunch looking like Forty Grams. Asmussen trains this son of Distorted Humor. And it's a 1 1/8 mile race with a purse of $600k.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. And it's Song of Navarone
by about a length over Solemn Promise 2nd, Forty Grams 3rd.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. What was your impression of the winner?
Did he look like a Derby horse? I'm not really sure. I don't watch much racing at Sunland and I have no idea if that time is good or not.

Glad you enjoyed the Rebel. Going to the track makes my day also.

Will you be at the Arkansas Derby, aaronbees?
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I don't watch Sunland either...
so it's hard to say. But he finished 3rd to Ravel and Liquidity after setting the pace in the Sham. I thought he ran nicely there in that race and hung on pretty far, and this race today was a visually impressive win. I'd give him an outside shot to make the Derby ... don't know much about the connections -- Henry Dominguez is the trainer.

And yep, I hope to make the Arkansas Derby and also hope some new, unexpected shippers move in to spice it up. Who knows ... maybe Any Given Saturday will want to avoid a rematch so soon with Street Sense. I'm curious to see Curlin again! Think I'll try to make the Apple Blossom/Oaklawn Handicap the weekend before too. Gettin to the track sets my mind right.

Are you getting to the track soon yourself -- maybe the Illinois Derby? (You could give us a Cobalt Blue report!)
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I will be at Hawthorne for the IL Derby...
I will file a report. I'll try to get some pictures also. I'd like to get a good shot of the blue dude for kenzee13.

Nice shots you have of Oaklawn down thread.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Song of Navarone wins it in 1:49.53
Times 22.50 47.26 1:11.63 1:36.89 1:49.53

Solemn Promise 2nd. Forty Grams 3rd.

Forty Grams set the pace and Song of Navarone layed off the pace and hooked him in the stretch. Song of Navarone looked strong.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. The Timeform "Racehorses of 2006" came in the mail....
In addition to its usual exhaustive coverage of British racing, Timeform offered ratings for international horses of interest, including:

Deep Impact 134
Bernardini 132
Invasor 133
Barbaro 130
Lava Man 130

George Washington was the top-rated British horse at 133.

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Who knows, George Washington.....
may have a chance to improve upon that rating someday soon. Where were Pride and Ouija Board at?
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Ouija Board 125
Pride 128
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Fair enough ... and as much as I love Ouija...
I thought Pride had a tremendously exciting year.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Jake, how would I go about getting Timeform Ratings....
Edited on Mon Mar-19-07 03:04 PM by two gun sid
sent to me?

And, this is OT, but, if you get a chance, take a look at a horse out at Yonkers named Special Report. He's a MI-bred Sires Stakes champ that my dad's neighbor owned and trained. He sold him to some big shooters out east and he's burning up the Yonkers track right now. Very nice older pacer.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Here's their website...
http://www.timeform.com/

The "Racehorses" annuals are a bit pricey - around $150. It's an indulgence I allow myself after the tax refund comes in. "The Black Book" (not to be confused with the Harrisburg sale catalog) is Timeform's weekly publication and contains ratings for every horse currently racing in Great Britain. I usually pick up a couple of those as well (around $45 apiece) for the Royal Ascot and Epsom Derby meetings.

I've seen quite a few horses racing out East that got their start at the fairs around Ohio - Hezapeach, Flatbush Hero, and some others I can't readily recall.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Thanks for the info...
We breed some good horses here in the midwest. It's too damn bad we can't keep them here. But, ya gotta go where the money is.

Special Report set a track record for aged geldings in his first race at Yonkers then came back and broke that record last Saturday. What a nice horse. I remember him from the sale and the fairs. Nice article at the USTA website.

http://www.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=20410&z=1
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. A few Rebel Stakes/Oaklawn pics
Just a few since they came out poorly overall despite my best manipulations. (And I'd rather not bog the thread down, loading-wise.)

Prado on a frisky Flying First Class before the Rebel (and the shoes of the two-year-old kid railbird in front of me):


Lukas and Prado confer post-Rebel (would love to be a fly in that conversation, and I think that's Jamie Sanders, Teuflesberg's trainer, on the right):


Prado on board Out of Aces, Lukas-trained, in race 5 (about to blow my first exacta of the day ;)):


Handicappers and horse:


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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
40. Indiana Rules Keep Suspended Trainers from Transferring
Horses.
From The Bloodhorse:
The Indiana Horse Racing Commission has voted unanimously to endorse new rules that disallow a suspended trainer from transferring a horse to a spouse, immediate family member, or assistant trainer. The measures, part of the agency’s program to bolster integrity in racing, give the racing commission the power to deny licensure, place horses on the stewards’ list, or ask that they be stabled on the grounds.

The regulations ensure that trainer suspensions are meaningful and not cosmetic, said Joe Gorajec, the commission’s executive director. The betting public should be assured that a trainer is not involved with his or her stable while serving a suspension, he said.

If a trainer receives a suspension greater than 15 days, horses under his or her care must be transferred to another party that isn’t a spouse, member of the immediate family, assistant, employee, or household member of the trainer. Horses trained by a licensee fitting the above criteria can be ruled ineligible to compete in Indiana.

In addition, stewards can require that horses previously trained by a suspended trainer or owned by an individual employing a suspended trainer be stabled on the grounds.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38062

That is a tough rule but, it is not unfair.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. Florida Derby next for Stormello
From DRF:
Saying he "has a score to settle with Scat Daddy," Bill Currin has decided to send his colt Stormello back to Gulfstream Park for a rematch of the Fountain of Youth Stakes in the Grade 1, $1 million Florida Derby on March 31.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/83336.html

Yes!!! A trainer that knows how to generate interest in a horse race! Talk a little smack, make it personal. I wanna see this rematch!
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I'm glad Espinoza is riding him this time. n/t
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. And a great follow-up quote too...
"I'd rather go with the devil I know than with the devil I don't know."

Isn't that the truth? I love it.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
59. More smack from Currin....
From Dailynews.com:
"I want to go back and replay my deal with Scat Daddy," Currin said in his Santa Anita box Thursday. "We had him whipped, but he was way on the outside, and my horse and jockey didn't see him."

Going into a pivotal final round of prep races, most trainers are angling for a spot in a wide-open Derby picture.

Currin, who makes breeding a priority, seems intent on displaying his colt to Kentucky farm owners.

"I went to (the Fountain of Youth) to showcase my horse to the East Coast and beat Nobiz Like Shobiz, and we did (Nobiz finished third)," said Currin, who passed up an invitation to a $2 million 3-year-olds race in Dubai. "Now we just have to teach that Scat Daddy a lesson."

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_5500817
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
49. Forefathers would add serious speed to Lane's End Stakes
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 03:24 PM by two gun sid
From DRF:
With a full field expected for the Lane's End Stakes on Saturday, the chances of Hard Spun getting away on an easy lead do not seem good - especially if one rival in particular is entered when Turfway Park draws the race Wednesday.

Forefathers, the speedy Gone West colt who was the beaten favorite earlier this month in the Hutcheson Stakes at Gulfstream Park, is under serious consideration for the Grade 2, $500,000 Lane's End, trainer Nick Zito said Monday. If Forefathers starts, the complexion of the Lane's End figures to change.

"I haven't made up my mind, but obviously we're not left with a lot of time or options," said Zito. "I'm going to talk it over with the owners , and we'll go from there. The bottom line is whether we want to stay on the Kentucky Derby trail, or go a different way."

Forefathers is fast enough that he led all the way in winning a six-furlong Calder allowance three starts back, then forced the pace in the 6 1/2-furlong Swale Stakes before settling for second behind Adore the Gold. He then was the 2-1 favorite in the Hutcheson but lost all chance with a poor break, finishing seventh.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/83357.html

<on edit> I am enjoying this years crop of 3YO's. They are a very good bunch and the races are very competitive. Poor Hard Spun just can't catch a break. But, that is good for us fans.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
50. "He's the Man"
Neat Blood Horse guest opinion article:

He's the Man
Date Posted: March 20, 2007
Last Updated: March 20, 2007

As I made my way to the paddock saddling area for the “Seven Horse,” there was little doubt who was being readied on the far side of the enclosure. Among a crowd at least eight rows deep, I found all kinds of people—seasoned handicappers, couples enjoying a date at the races, friends out for a good time, and mothers and fathers with their kids, to name just a few. I tuned into the buzz of the crowd and sought out the details on the object of their fascination.

I heard mothers say to their kids, “There he is. Just look at him,” as young eyes opened wide. “He is a one of a kind horse.”

A group of guys out for the day slapped one another on the back and palms collided in high fives. “He’s the Man. What a bad ass,” they said, charged with the same fervor and awe die-hard football fans exert when they talk about their favorite NFL player.

It continued, a symphony of sounds made up of different genders, accents, and languages. “Where is he? There.” And then the gasps and pauses, as people just took him in.



Source and rest of the story: http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38071

Captures much of what I love about this game anywhere, anytime I'm at a track.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I enjoyed this article too. (n/t)
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Thanks for posting this....
I am a great admirer of "The Man". I hope he beats all their brains out in Dubai.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. If racing had more writers like this,

the sport would do better.

I like this. Someone who can write with intelligence and love of the
game.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
52. Ravel Off Triple Crown Trail with Injury
From The Bloodhorse:
Trainer Todd Pletcher lost one of the many bullets in his Triple Crown assault weapon when Sham Stakes (gr. III) winner Ravel was found to have a possible fracture in his left front cannon bone.

Owned in partnership by Michael Tabor and Derrick Smith, Ravel (Fusaichi Pegasus-Let, by A.P. Indy) was pointed toward the April 7 Santa Anita Derby (gr. I).

Pletcher said it was “hard to tell” the extent of Ravel’s injury. “You can’t tell on the radiograph, but we’ll do another radiograph in 10 days,” he said. “I would say he’ll be out a minimum of 60 days.”

http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38094
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. That stinks; he was one of my favorites for the Derby
Lightly raced but showed plenty of ability in the Sham Stakes.

Right now I guess that leaves me looking at Street Sense, Any Given Saturday and Circular Quay.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. *#@&!!

Now I'll have to start looking for another mount in the derby.

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Total suckage....
Somehow not surprising, though. Ravel seemed kinda fragile with the light schedule he was on. Dang FuPeg genes. Hope he bounces back.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
58. Two bizarre racing stories
Poison dart device found at race track (Happy Valley in Hong Kong): http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/poison-dart-device-found-at-race-track/2007/03/22/1174153236956.html

Lawrence the Roman retired (and owner to pay people to breed to him): http://www.drf.com/news/article/83429.html

:crazy:
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
60. Jerry Bailey Receives Sports Emmy Nomination
From NTRA.com:
ESPN Horse Racing analyst Jerry Bailey and NBC, for its coverage of the 131st Preakness Stakes, each received nominations for the 28th Annual Sports Emmy Awards, it was announced today by the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences at a breakfast meeting of the IMG World Congress of Sports at the New York City's Pierre Hotel.

Bailey was one of five nominated in the category of Outstanding Sports Personality - Sports Event Analyst. Others nominated in this category are Cris Collinsworth for his analyst work on the NFL Network; Darrell Waltrip, who is a NASCAR analyst for FOX; golf analyst Johnny Miller of NBC; and baseball's Tim McCarver of FOX.

NBC's 2006 Preakness telecast was one of five nominees in the category of Outstanding Live Sports Special. Others nominated in this category are ABC for the 2006 FIFA World Cup; FOX for MLB on FOX's postseason coverage; CBS for the Pittsburgh-Indianapolis NFL Divisional Playoff telecast; and CBS again for its coverage of the 2006 Masters.

"I'm flattered to be nominated," said Bailey, a Hall of Fame jockey who began his broadcasting career with ESPN in early 2006, immediately after retiring from a 31-year riding career. "It's a tribute to the people I work with, particularly Randy Moss, Chris Fowler, Terry Gannon and the different producers who taught me a lot and made me feel very comfortable. A lot of credit also goes to my wife Suzee. Her background is in TV and she helped me, not just on the journalistic side, but with every piece that I did. I had a great coach.


http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=pr&id=24199&style=red
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
61. Past Performances (Brisnet) for Lane's End Stakes.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I like Hard Spun to bounce back...
and then Twilight Meteor and For You Reppo to complete the tri.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Hard Spun wins the Lane's End in 1:49 2/5....
Sedgefield 2nd, Joe Got Even 3rd
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. That was an easy race for him.

The rest nowhere basically.

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Pretty impressive win
Sat just off a fast pace and drew off without too much urging. Nice to see him back in the picture!
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. I looked up the chart this morning...
that was a helluva a great performance. He pressed a fast pace and raced wide and still won easy. Hard Spun is a real Derby contender.

It was the best Derby prep I've seen this year. I am looking forward to the Blue Grass. Street Sense better have his running shoes on. And take off those front wraps. Anyone know why Street Sense wore front bandages his last start?

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. Not sure about the front bandages on Street Sense ....
but didn't he have them on for the Juvie win? Totally agree on Hard Spun. Another thought: if I were Todd Pletcher, I'd take Any Given Saturday to Arkansas and avoid the crazy Blue Grass Stakes ... that race is going to be a doozy.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
62. Link to a good website on medications...
Racing Medicaton and Testing Consortium: http://www.rmtcnet.com/default.asp

My favorite page is the Withdrawl Times: http://www.rmtcnet.com/content.asp?whatpage=WITHDRAWAL

IMO this is one of the best resources on the web for anyone concerned about medication rules. I would like to see more info published on each of the drugs listed by RMTC. If anyone has a link to a good site like that please share.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. San Luis Rey Handicap coming up in a half hour
Mile-and-a-half on the turf. I like the two Drysdale horses, One Off and Fourty Niners Son, and Prospect Park could be interesting here too.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Looks like Fourty Niners Son in 2:27.50
Notable Guest 2nd, Prospect Park 3rd.

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. I thought Prospect Park would take it....
at the turn but I think that first move up the backside took a bit out of him. Nice to see Fourty Niners Son win it, though. Love these rare (in the US) 1.5 mile races.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I like these races but, I can't figure them out....
Edited on Sat Mar-24-07 07:00 PM by two gun sid
I totally suck at handicapping turf races. I do love those cavalry charges at the end though.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
72. Ocala Sales breeze videos
Edited on Mon Mar-26-07 04:34 PM by Old Broad

http://www.obssales.com/marpreview/


And here are some great shots of the Adena Springs consignment galloping. They don't
breeze their young horses for the sales. Good for them.

http://www.obssales.com/adepreview/
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. Neat to watch the gallopers....
Any suggestions on what to watch for there and in the breezes?
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. I loved #15
64, 137. I like several of the Macho Uno horses. They really move well.
And 15, the Unbridled Song, is fantastic. He moves like a good horse.
He'll probably be the sale topper.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
76. nice article on Bill Turner on espn.com
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Very nice article....
Ms. McGarr did a very good job.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. I enjoyed that article
The first picture shocked me a bit. I guess I still picture Billy Turner at 37. But luckily he donned the familiar hat in the other photos.

I wish he would write a book about Slew.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. We're working on the book.
I don't think it will be possible for another year - but we're working on it.


That first picture was taken five years ago when he was having all his teeth pulled and
getting dentures. He is 6/2" and weighed 150 lbs. He couldn't eat.
He looks better now.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #79
85. Great! I'll look forward to the book
I have the Dan Mearns book about Slew, but I'm sure one from the inside perspective will be even better.

Don't leave anything out. The more details and anecdotes the better. Even the rough stuff like losing the training gig and having to follow Slew as a 4-year-old.

I hope it's blunt. After the '78 Jockey Club Gold Cup the Miami Herald interviewed Billy Turner and he gave them some great stuff. One quote I remember; "I don't know what Affirmed was doing in that race. At a mile and a half Slew is 15 lengths better than him." That was in print and I loved it. Must have been Luther Evans writing the article. He was doing the Herald horse racing coverage in those years.

Ouch. Having all his teeth pulled is how my grandfather died, long before I was born. I'm glad Billy bounced back from it. The other photos did look much better.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-08-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #79
142. I'll look forward to that too! (n/t)
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #76
86. "Get with the program."
Nice quip there!

It's a great article - nice to see the writer took the time to get it right. Mr. Turner looks good to me - happy, which is a good thing and he sure deserves it.

Hope you guys get the time to get to that book -- if you ever need a ghostwriter, let me know and I'll get my resume ready. :P
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
80. Street Sense works a half in 48 yesterday at Palm Meadows.

He seems none the worse for wear after his race.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. That's very good for Palm Meadows isn't it?....
I had read Mr. Nafzger wanted a good work out of Street Sense before he shipped to KY. I guess he got it.

I will be looking forward to that book on Slew. The only really good piece I've read about him was Steve Cady's 'Secret at Saratoga'.

I see you guys scratched today. I hope everything is all right.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #81
98. Steve Davidowitz' new book has some good stuff on Billy Turner and Slew
"The Best and Worst of Thoroughbred Racing." It came out in December. Actually I haven't read the whole thing but I flipped through my friend's copy, and segments are available online. I have the book in my Amazon cart but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Here's an interesting section on Slew:

"Turner, a rangy, down-to-earth young man with wild eyes and a quick mind that might
have matched wits with a world-class chess champion, was the first to take me under his
wing in this manner. Having learned his horsemanship from patient Burley Cocks and
other renowned steeplechase trainers in Maryland, Turner seemed happy to bounce ideas
off me, as if I knew what he was talking about, which I didn‘t.

I can recall one specific lesson he passed on when I asked him–as most of the press was
asking him–—When are you going to work Seattle Slew fast, like a Derby horse usually
works?“

Turner stared at me for a split second as if he wanted to send me to a corner with a dunce
cap or hit me over the head with a hammer.

"Are you paying attention at all?“ he said. "Haven‘t you figured out anything?“ Turner was laughing, but the tone in his voice conveyed annoyance.

"Why would I want to work Seattle Slew fast when he‘s got all the speed in the world
already? . . . Here I am trying my best to get him to relax, telling the owners to lay back
and stop asking me to do this or do that and you‘re asking me what they‘re asking me....
Doesn‘t anybody get it? It‘s taken me months to get him ready to go a mile and a quarter
and you and everybody else wants me to burn him up on the training track!“

I felt like crawling into a hole as Turner walked away, shaking his head. A few hours
later, while crossing paths near the Churchill Downs paddock, Turner was calm as a
summer breeze, smiling from ear to ear when he pulled me aside and repeated his
thoughts. This time the words helped me understand how and why this oft-criticized,
extremely unorthodox young horseman was gingerly handling the high-strung
Thoroughbred that was going to be the first undefeated horse to sweep the American
Triple Crown.

"The key,“ he explained, is to keep him from sensing a race is coming up, to keep him
as comfortable and as relaxed as possible up to the last minute....He‘s a big goofball most
of the time, but if you were going to put him in a boxing ring with nine other horses, he‘d
be the only one to come out. He‘s so strong; so competitive; very willful, a very proud
son of a gun.“

***

That section really struck me when I read it. I've gotta admit it's frustrating sometimes, when you get into arguments with Secretariat fans. They use things like margins and final times as absolutes. Slew was more than capable of great efforts like that. I remember all the times he was eased to the wire, like in the Champagne and Flamingo. I can see Billy Turner's point and long term strategy when I think back to the '78 Jockey Club Gold Cup when Petersen was the trainer. Slew was so keyed up he broke through the gate beforehand, and then got into an insane speed duel in 1:09 2/5 in a mile and a half race. No way that would have happened a year earlier.

I'll look forward to the rest of that book, once I purchase it. Davidowitz says Slew was one of the few horses who never should have lost and says he will deal with that later in the book. I've always agreed with that argument. The Swaps Stakes was an asinine decision by the owners, and then as a 4-year-old Slew was woefully short for the Paterson and too keyed up for the Jockey Cub Gold Cup. Of course, if he didn't get sick he would have had many more races and perhaps lost on merit, but the ones he did lose still irk me.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-08-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #98
143. That's fascinating stuff, thanks for posting it
I bought the cover with Slew's derby - such a great photo, the three horses flying, Slew center - have it framed above my desk at work. Whether in any way accurate or not, Barbaro made me think of Slew, for the sense of enormous, barely contained power he seemed, to my eye, to radiate.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
82. Dubai News and Updates
From The Bloodhorse:
Demeanor Has Lava Man's Camp Optimistic
There’s a palpable feeling of optimism around the connections of Lava Man who have observed his initial gallops and overall demeanor since he arrived in Dubai last week for the US$5 million Dubai Duty Free on March 31.

“He’s happy here,” said exercise rider Tony Romero. “It’s a surprise, but that’s why I have a lot of confidence in him.”

Following a particularly eye-catching gallop over the turf course, the same strip the six-time grade I winner will race over Saturday, Romero gave the thumbs up sign when he guided Lava Man off the track.

Eager to keep going, Lava Man pulled against the bit when Romero tried to end the exercise.

http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38185

Invasor Draws Outside Post in World Cup; Discreet Cat Gets Rail
Reigning American Horse of the Year Invasor drew the outside seven post position and the undefeated colt Discreet Cat got the rail when the field was drawn Wednesday for Saturday’s $6-million Dubai World Cup (UAE-I) at Nad al Sheba.

Trained by Kiaran McLaughlin for owner Sheikh Hamdan bin Rashid al Maktoum, Invasor will be seeking to affirm his status as the world’s top racehorse when he takes on six international challengers in the 1 1/4-mile World Cup.

“It’s a good position for us, it’s outside and hopefully out of trouble,” McLaughlin said of the draw. “We’re happy there are only seven in there. We would have liked to have had more in there to have a faster pace – but then we’ve only got six to beat.” Asked if he expected to win, he said: “Yes, I do.”

Meanwhile, trainer Saeed bin Suroor said he was unconcerned about the inside post for Godolphin’s undefeated star Discreet Cat. Godolphin’s ill-fated Electrocutionist won from the number 1 post in last year’s World Cup.

http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38198

I really want Lava Man to show the world what kind of a horse he is. I have been following him since he started kicking ass out west a couple of years ago and it would really tickle me to see him finally win away from home. To me the sign of a really good horse is one that carries his racetrack with him. So, good luck to The Man and his connections. I'm pullin' for ya, buddy!
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #82
87. Lava Man has a tall order to win
I want to see it too - would be so sweet to get that monkey off his back. Glad he looks happy, but his connections said the same when he stabled at Keeneland before the BC. Grass traveling may be kinder, though. If he doesn't get it done, I'd like to see Mystical, the horse from India, win the Duty Free.

I'll take Eeeenvaaasorrrr over Discreet Cat after the champ's Donn win -- just can't see him being beat now in this great form. Hope it's a thriller whatever the outcome -- really wouldn't be surprised to see Premium Tap take it either. Discreet Cat is perhaps the most talented horse in the world, but I think he may not be seasoned enough to stretch out Saturday against these two guys. I like Asiatic Boy and Folk for the UAE Derby. Rooting for Vengence of Rain (one of the best racehorse names ever) in the Sheema Classic -- also like Collier Hill there. Friendly Island/Thor's Echo in the Golden Shaheen, I suppose.

Some cool Dubai notes here: http://blog.dubairacingclub.com/index.php.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #82
93. It will be interesting to see how Invasor does without lasix.
He was certainly no slouch before he started receiving it, but he has been unbeaten since
adding it last year.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
83. Florida Derby Post Position Draw
Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 08:09 PM by two gun sid
1.Notional 122 J. Paul Reddam Doug O’Neill Robbie Albarado 4-1
2.Imawildandcrazyguy 122 Lewis Pell & Michael Eigner Todd Pletcher Rafael Bejarano 15-1
3.Scat Daddy 122 Jim Scatuorchio & Michael Tabor Todd Pletcher Edgar Prado 5-2
4.Adore the Gold 122 John D. Murphy Mike Gorham Cornelio Velasquez 6-1
5.Stormello 122 Bill Currin & Alvin Eisman Bill Currin Victor Espinoza 3-1
6.Chelokee 122 Centennial Farms Michael Matz Ramon Dominguez 8-1
7.Boogie Boggs 122 My Meadowview Farm Nick Zito Joe Bravo 8-1
8.Johannesburg Star 122 Bisnath Parbod Collin Maragh Rajiv Maragh 30-1
9.Birdbirdistheword 122 Raymond Cottrell Sr. Ken McPeek Manoel Cruz 12-1

I wish Stormello would have drawn inside but, he's a tough sonuvagun, he'll be alright with the 5 hole.
<on edit> I'm gonna box the 2 CA horses, Stormello and Notional, just 'cause I don't think Scat Daddy's as good as he looked last out.
Latest from Currin: "I'm not looking to duck anybody," Currin said during a conference call this week. "I have one objective and that is to win the Kentucky Derby. You're not going to win it by picking and choosing soft spots. This is not a claiming race. This is about champions."


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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. Good box on the Cali horses
I like Adore the Gold too to take a step up. I have a feeling, though, Scat Daddy is gonna bite me in the ass all year by me not giving him enough credit.

Gonna be a great day of racing Saturday!
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
84. How are you guys going to watch the Dubai World Cup?

There are showing it at 1:30pm here on the OTB channel.
The whole card starts at 9:30, I think.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #84
89. I think it's on HRTV starting at 9:00 a.m. on the east coast
I hope to find it online at the Dubai Racing Club website - if not there, then I'll be watching on ABC (if my ABC station works on my clunky TV) where they should show most of the races tape delay starting at 1:30 my time.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #84
90. I'll probably wander into a sportbook
If I can wake up early enough. That's always the wild card for me, since I stay out so late even at this age. I could never be a horseman. My best bet is to stay up all night Friday and watch the race before going to sleep.

I'm probably not going to bet the race but at first instinct I lean to Discreet Cat. My theory is if you won big it was probably for a reason(s) and I don't like to discount it and try for a reversal. I still think Bernardini was not at his best on Breeders Cup Day. He didn't look right to me on the first turn. If the real Discreet Cat shows up, I think he's better than Invasor.

BTW, the new Wynn casino sportsbook has been booking plenty of interesting one-on-one horse racing matchups, just pick one horse to beat another. That's more my preference, since it slices the huge house take. I'll post some of the matchups and odds here once in a while, if they put them up in time. I'm sure they'll be up before the day of the race for the Derby.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #84
94. Probably catch the replays online....
...or through youbet.com. I don't get HRTV though my local cable. Dad can get it on Dish Network.

TVG really seems to be headed to Hell in a handbasket lately. They won't be carrying Dubai this year, and they're losing the Churchill Downs family of tracks. The English racing and Meadowlands coverage is nice though.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Stronach is trying to squeeze them out.
He started his HRTV station which he shares with Churchill. So he has the
signal for Gulfstream, Keeneland, Churchill, Santa Anita, Hollywood and
TVG is left with Aqueduct, Beulah Park, Turfway and Japanese racing at 1am.

TVG has a terrible line up. I hate Stronach and his ego maniacal bid to control
all racing signals.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. YouBet.com...
Edited on Thu Mar-29-07 04:18 PM by two gun sid
I have to be at the barn early Saturday and Sunday mornings.

Man, this weekend is what Horse Racing is all about. Unbelievable match-ups.

Go Stormello! Go Lava Man! Invasor, he's the best!
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
91. Recent article on Jean Cruguet
He cares daily for his wife Denise, who suffered a major stroke four years ago, and hopes to get into the racing Hall of Fame so Denise can see that recognition before she passes away:

http://www.kentucky.com/304/story/20105.html
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Jean sent us a copy of that article.
We went to the recent birthday party for him. It was a riot.

I hope the Frenchman gets the respect he deserves this year.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #92
124. I've come to appreciate Cruguet more over the years
At the time I thought it was a given Slew would win the Triple Crown. But now that I've seen 30 more years of bizarre results I realize how wrong that was.

Heck, he got left at the start in the Derby and could have ended up like Discreet Cat today, forced to settle back and not run his typical race. But Cruguet charged him through a narrow opening. Then in the Preakness he held off a very good speed horse in Cormorant but didn't get into a stupid speed duel like Honest Pleasure and Bold Forbes the year before. And in the Belmont he was content to run slow fractions and not move too soon, like Ronnie Franklin did in '79 or other examples like Desormeaux aboard Real Quiet.

The one thing I don't understand about Cruguet is why he thinks Hoist the Flag was better than Slew. I've seen him say that in more than one interview. I was very young at that point but I do remember Hoist the Flag, the first 2-year-old after I started following racing who was touted to win the Triple Crown. I guess it's natural to project all kind of surreal performances to an athlete who shows promise then has his career cut short, but calling him better than Slew seems like a reach to me. Hoist the Flag definitely would have had his hands full with Canonero II in the Derby and especially the Preakness, considering the time Canonero posted at Pimlico.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
96. Horrible story in my local newspaper today...
Edited on Thu Mar-29-07 04:44 PM by two gun sid
two men are being arraigned for animal cruelty. 69 horses, including thoroughbreds and quarter horses, found at their farm severely undernourished and living in horrible condition. Local officials are taking care of the poor things until they can be adopted. They can't move the horses until they finish cleaning out the trash and refuse and can build their strength.

No link yet.

<on edit> http://www.mlive.com/news/citpat/index.ssf?/base/news-20/1175182508233810.xml&coll=3
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
99. One-on-one matchup propositions for Saturday
The Wynn property in Las Vegas put these up today, one horse to beat the other. Five races at Gulfstream plus the biggie at Dubai.

This is how the odds work: minus is the favorite, so -140 means bet 140 to win 100, or any ratio along those lines. A +110 is the underdog, 100 to win 110. In some cases both are minuses, when the odds are basically even. This is a 30 cent house cut, still much better than the typical race track take.

Dubai World Cup:

Discreet Cat -120
Invasor -110

Orchid Handicap, Gulfstream:

La Dolce Vita EVEN
Almonsoon -130

Aventura Stakes, Gulfstream

Our Sacred Honor +130
Blue Bullet -160

Bulleit Bourbon Pan American Handicap, Gulfstream

Hotstufanthensome -110
Revved Up -120

Skip Away Handicap, Gulfstream

Welcome Again +120
Dry Martini -150

Florida Derby, Gulfstream

Stormello +110
Notional -140
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
100. US wins mile.
Spring At Last, trained by Doug O'Neill won the mile.
Garrett Gomez up.

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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
101. Asiatic Boy wins in a canter in the UAE Derby.


The rest nowhere.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. That was impressive...
...though he's technically a 4-year-old racing against 3yo's. I was disappointed in Eu Tambem.

Rooting for Thor's Echo in the Golden Shaheen.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. I think they better give Thor's Echo back to O'Neil
Maybe he just can't race without lasix.

I like seeing these great races where no one on the card is on lasix.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. You might be right...
...Thor's Echo wasn't sharp in either of his starts over there.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. Super race by him
Hope Folk came out of it okay.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
103. Kelly's Landing wins Sprint by a length.
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 10:10 AM by Old Broad
Friendly Island second
Salaam Dugai (Aus) third

The wonderful South African mare, National Color, didn't break well at all and didn't really get in the race.

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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
106. Vengeance of Rain wins one for Hong Kong
Derby winner Sir Percy gets nosed out for 3rd, dropping me to 0-for-5 on the wagering front today.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
107. Lava Man last!
Hope he's okay ... I'm betting he bled. He was running nicely near the lead until the top of the stretch and just completely stopped. Admire Moon wins the Duty Free. Damn it.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #107
112. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

He has never in his life shipped and hit the board, much less won a big one out of town.

He just can't ship.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. It may have been insane ....
but I'm glad they gave it a go. Lava Man's pretty tough and always seem to bounce back well from these disasters at any rate. I think it's pretty definitive now he's a Cali horse. No shame in that. Watched Ty's Ridge run today ... did he come out okay after that race? I was rootin' for him.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Ty's Ridge will do fine when he runs for a tag.

He tries his best, but he can't run with those horses.
He's very genuine, though, and we love him.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
109. 15 minutes until the DWC ... go Invasor!
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. He's the best!
And plenty best! Discreet Cat .... last.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. He truly is the best. What a great race.

Pleasant Tap ran a superb race, but Invasor can really put his head down and power
on when the going gets tough. A real warrior.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #110
113. Blood Horse story, etc.


"Invasor Conquers World Cup; 'Cat Last" --> http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38247

Post-World Cup Quotes --> http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38247

Looks like Discreet Cat will stick with a mile. That was a strange race because as best I could tell Dettori was holding him back but he just never ran a lick. Magnificence in the post parade doesn't ever equal a win. I think a prep race would have helped him but like I said before I just can't see anyone beating Invasor now. Premium Tap put in a gritty race to hang on far but still Jara was cool and unhurried on Invasor, just urging him on with practically a hand ride. Not flashy but such a workmanlike, great horse who gets it done is that Invasor. About Lava Man, apparently someone said on HRTV he scoped clean, so it really is just not being able to travel -- sounds like his trainer was not as confident of his chances going on the road as the ownership. I imagine no lasix may also have played a part in his poor run. Oh, well. Still, I'm glad they gave it a go -- hopefully he bounces back just fine as he always seems to, even after a big loss. He loses no luster in my book.

I'm gonna sit back and enjoy Invasor this year. He's a true great.

Florida Derby up soon! Go Stormello!
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
116. Horses at the gate for the FL Derby
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Scat Daddy, goddamnit.
What a shitty day for my horses.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. I just can't warm up to this horse
But Scat Daddy wasn't going to get caught by anyone there today. Bites me in the posterior, just as I thought. Prado had a great day today. Stormello had some pretty quick fractions but thought he'd hang on better. Interesting to see how the top 2-year-olds of last year are repeating their excellent form from last year.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. I feel the same -
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 04:45 PM by Old Broad
but I have to admit that he looked good today. I thought he looked physically stronger
than even a month ago.

They went the last 1/8th in thirteen and change which isn't too thrilling, but he gets
the job done in very professional manner.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. Scat Daddy was the best today...
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 05:07 PM by two gun sid
and Stormello had no excuse.

Stormello needs to start training for the Met Mile. To hell with the TC. With his running style he ain't ever gonna get a distance. Gee, I sure am good at training other peoples horses.

He was beaten today, fair and square, but, I still love that bum.

Lava got stomped today and that just sucks. Ruined my whole day when I saw the low-light of the stretch run on ABC when I got home.

Time for a shower and a cup of tea.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. I wish they would take the blinkers off Stormello.

He might relax a bit better early on without them.

I also didn't like that they shipped this horse cross country twice in a month.
That is a lot of stress. These good horses have to have a great immune system to
go with the physical package but I think that much shipping is too much for even
a good horse.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. Why they didn't give him an easy race at home,...
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 07:43 PM by two gun sid
and the SADerby is shaping up to be an easy race, I don't understand. The FOY was tough on Stormello. Shipped back and forth from FL and CA can't help. I was really enjoying Currin talking shit for the last couple of weeks but, I shouldn't have been. Really foolish on my part.

Currin claims it is all about getting breeders to notice your horse. I don't know. Maybe that is what racing has become.

Blinkers off might help him. Picking the easiest spots would really help.

Currin's owner and trainer so he can do what he wants. I would just like to see Stormello succeed. He is physically the most imposing 3YO racing today.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #117
125. Chelokee really got squeezed on the rail in the Florida Derby
Then he regrouped to the outside and finished willingly. I don't know much about him other than this race.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
123. Discreet Cat and Lava Man should have raced against each other
To see if they could dead heat for last.

I stayed up all night for that?

Discreet Cat settled into 7th and liked it so much he stayed there. I'm just glad I looked at the past performances Friday night and noticed that last year Invasor was minus a prep race prior to Dubai while Discreet Cat had one. This year it was reversed.

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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-03-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
126. Timeform gives Invasor 132 rating for DWC win
From the Timeform website:

31/03/07 NAD AL SHEBA
10 furlongs. Fast 1 of 7 5/4f tfig rat 132 F. Jara
INVASOR (ARG) took his record to 11 wins from 12 starts, and made up for his only defeat here a year ago, in the UAE Derby won by Discreet Cat; travelling more smoothly than is usual for him, albeit in a race that wasn't truly run, he led over 1f out and took time to get the better of Premium Tap, but was well on top by the line;


And the there's this gem from Racingpost.co.uk:

Jara's late move could have cost us World Cup - Hamdan

"The normally reticent Sheikh Hamdan, who on Saturday night celebrated the Dubai World Cup triumph of Invasor alongside 19-year-old rider Fernando Jara, on Tuesday revealed to the world his dissatisfaction with the jockey's performance at Nad Al Sheba."

What an ingrate - he just won the world's richest race and he has the audacity to bitch publicly about his jockey.
He must be one of those idiots who shows up at the trainer's barn condition book in hand.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-03-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. I suggest Sheikh Hamdan get his own ass up there and ride Invasor...
if he's going to complain like this. Start losing that weight, Sheikh! Jara (who's won three of the four biggest dirt races in the world this past year) gave two fluid look-backs at the top of the stretch before telling Invasor to go -- probably to see where the Cat was -- can't fault him much for that. And if Hamdan's really got a problem with it, have some class and deal with it privately.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #126
131. McLaughlin says Hamdan not upset
Strange, now McLaughlin says Hamdan was misquoted: http://www.drf.com/news/article/83751.html

Quote:
McLaughlin said Hamdan told Rick Nichols, the racing manager for Sheikh Hamdan’s Shadwell Stable, that he was misquoted and that he was not critical of Jara in any way.

“Sheikh Hamdan was upset; he doesn’t even know where that came from,’’ McLaughlin said. “He was full of praise of Fernando’s ride and tickled to death for the great victory.”

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. ...
Edited on Wed Apr-04-07 06:51 PM by aaronbees
...
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. Alrighty then....
...I hope this is correct for the sake of everyone involved.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. Me too
I like how Jara rides Invasor. He's very patient. Would be a shame to see him lose the mount on him.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-03-07 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
128. My Derby Top 5 (plus seven more to watch)
We're coming down to the final month of Derby preps where the big daddies are separating themselves from the pretenders (finally!). Here's my stab at a top five of horses who look right now to be competitive on Derby day:

1. Street Sense - More and more I'm starting to think it's Street Sense's Derby to lose. That's how much I loved his game effort for a first-back on Tampa Bay Derby Day. Much will be told on Blue Grass Stakes Day but I'm not sure he'll be fully cranked even for that race. Not sure it will matter, though. ;)
2. Circular Quay - Still see him as Pletcher's top contender ... if he gets room for his run on Kentucky Derby Day. Apparently he's out of the Wood and training up to the Derby -- not sure I like that move at all but CQ's got a strong base.
3. Any Given Saturday - Going to the Wood this weekend, a spot that should fit him well to get some earnings. Hard to knock his gutsy effort on TBDerby day and with better luck may have won that. I wondered if that race would take more out of him than it did Street Sense, but Pletcher wheeling him back now seems to indicate not.
4. Great Hunter - Steady and always there and he showed a great turn of foot in his last out -- like the other great two-year-olds, he seems to be holding form and improving incrementally.
5. (tie) Scat Daddy & Nobiz Like Shobiz - Just can't separate them though Nobiz has been my "Derby horse" for a while. We'll see if Nobiz can get his brain right and run straight this weekend. Scat Daddy is solid, just don't quite see the brilliance yet.

I think the Derby winner is almost certainly among those top five (er, six, I mean). However, I'd say all of these could slip in for a shot at it, depending on how their next prep finds them: 7. Hard Spun; 8. Notional; 9. Curlin; 10. Ketchikan; 11. Cobalt Blue; 12. Zanjero
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
129. Street Sense worked five eights in 58 this morning.
At Churchill Downs. Smokin'.

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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. Nice
He sure likes that track.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-04-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
133. "The First Saturday in May" (movie)
http://www.thefirstsaturdayinmay.com/

This looks very interesting, maybe even exciting -- good cast of characters to follow. I heard they had to go back and re-edit after Barbaro's death. Check out the preview.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-05-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
136. FWIW, Secretariat did not win the Belmont by 31 lengths
I've been watching dozens of races on YouTube in recent months. There are many versions of Secretariat's Belmont. Truly an awesome performance but I've always wondered why the margin always looked like so much less than 31 lengths. Very late in the stretch I've stopped the tape and it always looks much closer to 22 than 31. That 22 to 25 was exactly what Chic Anderson said during the end of the race.

Anyway, tonight I finally put a stopwatch to it. There's no way the margin was actually 31 lengths. Not even close. If you use this video, the best one in terms of the original live call, the time between Secretariat crossing the finish line to the next horse, Twice a Prince, is slightly over 4 seconds. I timed it more than 10 times and every time I came up with between 4.17 seconds and 4.45 seconds, normally in the 4.30 area. If you use the standard one second = 5 lengths guideline, that would equate to between 21 and 22 lengths. It should take 6 seconds for the 31 lengths to be accurate.

Admittedly a minor issue but ridiculous to be so far off. BTW, when I apply the one second = 5 lengths to the margin of other races on YouTube, ones with smaller margins but easy to identify, it holds up perfectly. Whatever criteria they used to estimate the Belmont margin I'm sure they tried to be accurate but IMO they botched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoFquax2F-k
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-05-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #136
137. Here's a good verification, the 1988 Belmont
Risen Star's romp was listed at 14 lengths. And that's almost exactly what the one second = 5 lengths criteria puts it at. I've timed it several times and the difference between Risen Star and the next horse is always about 2.65 seconds, which would be slightly over 13 lengths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLx-ljX89lc

Secretariat is a true legend but he's been given the benefit of about 9 lengths he didn't earn.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-07-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. I received a reply from Steve Davidowitz
Edited on Sat Apr-07-07 08:05 PM by Awsi Dooger
He said the criteria of 1 second = 5 lengths is on the low end. He wanted me to believe it's closer to 6, and that racing margins are notoriously imprecise and shouldn't be relied on, but I'm not buying it. I looked at nearly 100 races on YouTube the last few days, focusing on ones with high margins like 8 lengths or above. You can get a much more accurate stopwatch measure with higher gaps, and not bang-bang finishes. Plus there are so many races with specific margins like 12 1/4 for Point Given's Belmont that I'm confident in the estimates of the margins in those races. What I'm also confident about is the 31 length '73 estimate was absurdly high. I'd love to wager on that and nothing else every day for the rest of my life.

In almost every case on YouTube, the 1 second = 5 lengths criteria is much closer to accurate than 1 = 6. The only exceptions are short races like 6 furlong sprints. If a horse wins big in a very rapid time like 1:08 and the trailers are in 1:10, obviously they are traveling fast and will finish faster than 5 lengths for every 1 second. But in cases like the Belmont with young horses faltering down the stretch at a mile and a half, the 1 = 5 is clearly much more reliable. In races with mid level distances and average closing times like 24 seconds for the final quarter, then it seems like 1 = 5.5 is closest to accurate. Admittedly, this is a work in early progress but with dozens in the sample in every category now, I'm beginning to feel comfortable with the assertions.

Davidowitz told me the calibrated margin in the '73 Belmont between Secretariat and Twice a Prince has been recorded at 4.70 seconds and 4.76 seconds. Let's put it this way; whoever times that gap at 4.7 or above needs to be in charge of the rest of my life. I'll get a 10% bonus for nothing at all. There is no way the duration is 4.7. Not even close. I've clocked it at least 40 times with three different stop watches and using many different videos on YouTube. The highest I've ever achieved is 4.48, and that was while trying to be extra generous to Secretariat, starting the clock too soon for him and stopping too late for Twice a Prince. I'm hardly a novice to clocking. In college I used to time the 40 on pro days before the NFL draft, comparing notes with NFL scouts standing nearby. And this 4.3 second gap is almost identical to 40 yard dash times. Unless there is a blip missing from the YouTube tapes after Secretariat crosses the wire, like the Watergate 18-minute gap, the 4.3 range is closer to accurate.

Regardless, even if you use the Monty Python absurd 4.76 second gap and the sprint-like 1 second = 6 lengths, that still doesn't multiply anything close to 31 lengths. It comes in at slightly over 28. Davidowitz seemed to concede the '73 Belmont margin was high, writing "you can quibble about a length or two." Or 8 or 9. I've looked at it visually compared to races with 10 or 12 length margins and there's no question it's significantly closer to double those gaps, not three times. My best guess would be 22 or 23. I'd thrill to have an actual margin discovered and revealed, with betting lines on each margin beforehand. Give me the low numbers at huge odds and I'll roll on the floor in anticipation.

Davidowitz made the point that the margin is applied when the winner hits the finish line, not the time it takes for the runnerup to arrive. That is an obvious point that I've thought about. However, that aspect works toward a lesser actual margin for Secretariat, not greater. Young 3-year-olds laboring to the finish at a mile and a half will be stumbling home slower than the criteria of seconds=lengths, not faster. Secretariat actually benefits from how long it takes for Twice a Prince and My Gallant (3rd) to wobble home. It makes no sense to claim they suddenly turned on the jets only after Secretariat crossed the line.

Admittedly this isn't a huge issue. But it does impact Count Fleet's record margin of 25 lengths in the '43 Belmont. I can't find a full video to evaluate that. And since there has always been such uproar about Secretariat's winning time in the Preakness, which was clearly lower than the official versions, then it's purely hypocritical for a flawed and inflated Belmont margin to be accepted or even embraced.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-07-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. Interesting, but....
wouldn't it be a photo that could only offer conclusive proof either way? If I remember right, the lengths are equal to the railing support margins at Belmont and that's how the 31 length victory was calibrated after some discussion and examination. Have you contacted Belmont to inquire or looked at any straight-on photos of the finish? I guess having watched my fair share of romps, too, that Secretariat victory doesn't visually feel like 22 or 23 lengths. I could maybe buy something in the 25 to 28 range but still .... it was clearly one of the greatest athletic achievements ever .... no matter what the math says.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-08-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #138
141. Awsi, a question
And it is a question, not a contradiction, since I can't get worked up about the issue and don't know anything about these calculations anyway. And the more I think of it, I'm probably asking a stupid question mixing apples and oranges, so to speak, but I'm going to ask it anyway, out of curiosity. Does length of stride affect the lengths per second ratio? I ask because I remember reading that Secretariat had an exceptional stride.

Also, an aside - whatever the state of the other horses, in the videos I've seen Secretariat sure doesn't look as if he's "faltering" any in the stretch. I always thought that his power at the end of such a long race was the source of the awe in the caller's "he's moving like a tremendous machine!"
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-07-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. That's sacrilege!...
LOL. That 31 lengths has always been suspect to me. Look, Secretariat was a great horse and he broke a TC draught of 25 years and man, was he exciting to watch. I think the racing press, starting with Hatton, tended to make him out to be better than he was. To be honest, they didn't need to. His Belmont should be able to stand on it's own. I've never seen anything in sports like it. 2:26 flat. He raced poor Sham into the grave that day and make no mistake, Sham was a very good horse.

So, I've never really believed that 31 lengths.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. Correction: 2:24 flat.
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