Will Jose Canseco's tell-all book guarantee him the Hall of Fame ?

[drdon326]

Jose always wanted the HOF.....he thinks this will buy his ticket.

[Jack Rabbit]

1. No

Canseco's numbers will get him into the Hall of Fame, maybe.

Canseco always had the tools to be one of the truly great baseball players ever, but he simply didn't work at it. Instead, he relied on his raw talent, which was considerable, to take him as far as he got.

If he had a better attitude, both he and the teams for which he played would have reached loftier heights.

[tx_dem41]

2. That logic doesn't make sense at all.

For one thing, it guarantees he will NEVER be in the HOF. Oh, but he never was going to be in the HOF anyway. His numbers just aren't good enough.

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Canseco's numbers

From Baseball reference

17 major league seasons (1985-2001).

Batting averge: .266 (.307 in 1988 and .306 in 1995)
Home Runs: 462 (hit over 40 in one season three times)
Stolen bases: 200 (highest was 40 in 1988)
Slugging percentage: .515
On base percetnage: .353
Fielding percentage: .973 (not particularly good for an outfielder)

[tx_dem41]

8. I checked those numbers before making my post....

the .266 average is quite low for HOF criteria. The power numbers are watered down when considering the era they were produced in. IMO, not close to HOF numbers.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. I agree

The 462 home runs is impressive, but the other figures are not.

Since I didn't give RBIs for Canseco above, he had 1407

By comparison:

Barry Bonds (through 2004):

Batting Average: .300
Home Runs: 703
RBIs: 1843
Slugging Percentage: .611
On Base Percentage: .443
Fielding Percentage: .985

Johnny Bench (1967-83):

Batting Average: .267
Home Runs: 389
RBIs: 1376
Slugging Percentage: .476
On Base Percentage: .342
Fielding Percentage: .987

Bench, a Hall of Famer, has comparable figures to Canseco. However, the Reds in the Bench era won more titles than all the teams for which Canseco played, even considering the A's won three consecutive American League championships with Canseco.

There is something intangible that makes remember Johnny Bench as a better ballplayer than Jose Canseco.

Dick Allen (1963-77)

Batting Average: .292
Home Runs: 351
RBIs: 1119
Slugging Percentage: .534
On Base Percentage: .378
Fielding Percentage: .975

Like Canseco, Allen was an extremely talented player with a bad attitude. He is not in the Hall of Fame.

Allen played in only one post-season series toward the end of his career.

[Jack Rabbit]

24. Then again . . . .

Ernie Banks (1953-71)

Batting Average: .274
Home Runs: 512
RBIs: 1636
Slugging Percentage: .500
On Base Percentage: .330
Fielding Percentage: .986

Willie McCovey (1959-80)

Batting Average: .270
Home Runs: 521
RBIs: 1555
Slugging Percentage: .515
On Base Percentage: .374
Fielding Percentage: .991

Harmon Killebrew (1954-75)

Batting Average: .256
Home Runs: 573
RBIs: 1584
Slugging Percentage: .509
On Base Percentage: .376
Fielding Percentage: .981

Wilver Stargell (1962-82)

Batting Average: .282
Home Runs: 476
RBIs: 1540
Slugging Percentage: .529
On Base Percentage: .360
Fielding Percentage: .985

All of these players are Hall of Famers. Banks never played in a post season game. Look at Killebrew's batting average.

Somehow, the argument that Canseco doesn't have the number doesn't mesh. His numbers compare to those above.

There is something intangible about Canseco that, in the popular imagination, makes him a lesser player than those named here. It seems when we want to compare Canseco to another player it is . . .

Dave Kingman (1971-86)

Batting Average: .236
Home Runs: 442
RBIs: 1210
Slugging Percentage: .478
On Base Percentage: .302
Fielding Percentage: .974

. . . or . . .

Darryl Strawberry (1983-99)

Batting Average: .259
Home Runs: 335
RBIs: 1000
Slugging Percentage: .505
On Base Percentage: .357
Fielding Percentage: .977

Canseco's stats are better than that, but no one ever accused Kingman of being a five-tool player. Strawberry, on the other hand, is another story of a player wasting his own talent.

Canseco's problem is that he could have been a five-tool player and choose not to be. Like Kingman and Strawberry, there was something about Canseco that, while everybody knew there was something he could do to help one's team, one would rather he played somewhere else.

I am among those who badly want to see the ban on Pete Rose lifted and have him admitted to the Hall of Fame. Whatever his faults as a human being, he played baseball the way it is supposed to be played in the major leagues: hard. Canseco didn't.

[drdon326]

15. It actually does.

the expression is...'its not enough that I succeed, its that others must fail'.

By nailing McGuire, Sosa and Rodriquez the HOF cant let them in and then claim it was steroids that kept Canseco out. Canseco will claim hypocrisy to make his case.

Pretty clever actually.

[tx_dem41]

16. Except for another problem that Canseco has...his numbers don't

meet the HOF criteria. Not really even close.

[Jack Rabbit]

23. No, my dear doctor

One must succeed. That others fail is a red herring.

[sasquatch]

3. The only thing it might buy him is an ass beating or a slug in the head

Remember he dragged the Bush Crime Family into this mess he created and they take shit sitting down. My advice to Canseco is to stay out of small aircraft.

[Hand]

4. More likely...

...a short ride in a small plane owned by the BFEE.

:scared:

[vpigrad]

6. Why is it our business what someone puts into their own bodies?

Canseco looks like a repuke of the worst sort by going after athletes who do something the repukes don't like.

[DaveinMD]

7. because

it creates an incentive for other players to damage their bodies in order to remain competitive. Steroid testing will save players lives.

[tx_dem41]

9. You know, not everything is about "Repukes vs. Democrats".

This is one of them.

[drdon326]

10. Oh No ??

Ive seen 'bagels and lox' become a R vs. D discussion.

[tx_dem41]

11. LOL....I like both...

I guess that makes me a damned middle-of-the-roader on this one.

[vpigrad]

12. It is about repukes vs. Democrats

We believe in freedom, and they believe in slavery. It's a simple black and white issue.

[tx_dem41]

13. I apologize then. I didn't realize that baseball players were slaves.

I believed that they were able to unionize and participate in collective bargaining with baseball ownership.

My bad, I guess. :eyes:

[DaveinMD]

17. allowing steroids

makes other people use steroids, which leads to bad health consequences. Cheating is bad. Democrats don't believe in cheating and we believe in better public health too.

[drdon326]

18. With all due respect.....

a lecture about morality from someone who's avatar is the NY Yankess....

a team owned by a big time repuke who was convicted of a crime


and whose team breaks the salary cap without any shame


AND a team who knew Giambi was using roids.......



seems to ring a wee bit hollow.

[sellitman]

19. Your the one with the "69" Avatar

Seems to me ranking on the morality of a Yankee fan is a bit lame.

IMHO

[drdon326]

20. No problem here. I'm a big boy.

So what do you think of Canseco's tell-all book and do you think this is a ploy to get into the HOF ?

[sellitman]

21. I think

Every Baseball player who injected himself with Steroids should have his records removed from baseball. If he is in the hall of fame they should remove his plaque and ban him. How to prove it is another story. This would be in a perfect world. Canseco has the right to publish his book although the whole story disgusts me so that I wouldn't run out and buy it.

[DaveinMD]

22. Let's go through these

In Tip O'Neill's book he discussed how Steinbrenner was extorted by the CREEP into that illegal campaign contribution. It was part of doing business. Many business owners were extorted by Nixon in that way.

There is no salary cap in baseball. The Yankees try to win within the rules of the system. Unlike many teams, they don't pocket all the revenues. They invest in their team and try to win. And that's a great thing.

As for steroids. Giambi is a major scapegoat. Half the league is doing bad things. Giambi is not the only one. So let's stop the scapegoating.

I'm proud to be a fan of the most successful franchise in the history of professional sports. Go Yankees.

[drdon326]

25. Players taught by Canseco to use steroids

Mark McGuire
Juan Gonzalez
Raphal Palmero
Ivan Rodriquez
Jason Giambi

[drdon326]

26. OMT

Its no wonder Palmero needs VIAGRA....steroids make you impotent.

And Jasons little history of bad attitudes seem to make sense.





He clearly hopes this will buy his ticket to the HOF.

How many 400 home run hitters havent made it ?

[Jack Rabbit]

27. How many 400 home run hitters haven't made it?

Not too many.

Darrell Evans (414 HRs, retired 1989) and Dave Kingman (442 HRs, retired 1986) come to mind.

It isn't unprecedented.

[Jack Rabbit]

28. Also . . .

Andre Dawson (438 HRs, retired 1996). A better case can be made for Dawson getting into the HOF than Canseco, Evans or Kingman.

Cal Ripkin (431 HRs, retired 2001), like Canseco, will not be eligible for election to the HOF until 2006.

[DaveinMD]

29. what bad attitude

Jason Giambi has never demonstrated a bad attitude at all.

[MrSlayer]

30. No way. He isn't close to HOF caliber.

Canseco could write something on the Shakespearean level and it still wouldn't make his career good enough for the Hall of Fame. He'll go down as the steriod freak who had a ball bounce off his head for a home run.

[drdon326]

31. Dont be so sure.

most 400 HR hitters have made it.

[tx_dem41]

32. So you believe that Dave Kingman and Darrell Evans deserve to

be in the Hall of Fame? Also, I guess Juan Gonzalez gets in once he retires.

[MrSlayer]

34. 400 Homers isn't a benchmark.

500 probably still gets you in but 400 in today's game isn't really that impressive. No way he gets in, especially after admitting to cheating.

[drdon326]

35. You may be right....

but was it illegal when he was taking roids?

[MrSlayer]

37. I don't think it matters.

It's cheating any way you look at it. Even if he was drug free I don't believe his numbers are good enough for the Hall at his position.

[KitchenWitch]

33. two words

Heeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllll NO!

[Caution]

36. if he honestly thinks that then the steroids must have shrunk his brain

He will never get into cooperstown nor does he deserve to make it. He was good for a very short period of time and terrible for about 10 years. Homeruns are not the only qualifier.